Possible bug in Calendar

[Arne Vajhøj]

You are one of the least qualified people on the planet to make
assertions about English. (Even compared to people that know none at all
-- they will at least be so ignorant that they will give an honest "I
don't know" type of response regarding English, instead of making
poorly-educated guesses and grievous errors!)

In English, "an awful lot" means a large number and "any" means a number
greater than zero.

Which is completely irrelevant.

Mentioning that there is a lot does not mention any.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Then you've conceded.

Lew conceeded that the JSR people are correct.

And proved that your assumptions about his opinion view was wrong.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Yes, I am sure.

Then how can you write such nonsense as the above ??

That is not the same thing as saying that X indicates A.

True. But irrelevant.

Look at me. I am calm, collected, and rational. The more you insult me,
the more I calmly and patiently explain why you're wrong about me and
politely request that you desist from your hostile and inexplicably rude
behavior.

I'm a model citizen compared to you, with your blustery temperamental
attitude, brutish brow-beating tendencies, thuggish behavior, terrible
grammar, tendency to push threads off-topic, and bulldog tenacity in
trying to "kill" whoever you don't like.

Yes, it is rather as if I stepped into a parlor, tried to participate in
a civilized discussion, and then someone's Rottweiler started snarling,
chasing me around, and trying to take chunks out of the seat of my
pants. (So, maybe someone should put you on a leash! Or not let you into
the parlor in the first place.)

I think your definition of "rational" and "model citizen" differ a bit
from other peoples.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Excessively complicated to use for the stated purpose. A boondoggle,
really.


Excessively complicated to use for the stated purpose. A boondoggle,
really.

Almost everybody except you seems capable of using it.

And I really don't think Java API should be designed after
people like you that don't read the docs.

No. See several fresh posts by me.


Policy object. Dependency injection. Need I repeat myself yet again?

The class still need to be there. It is irrelevant how it gets
instantiated.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Any dates in that kind of time frame are going to be user input to
historical or genealogical software of some sort. Which puts the
responsibility for coping with the non-Gregorian calendar and the change
of calendars squarely in or near the UI layer here, too.

Not if your business logic are used in countries that does not
use the Gregorian calendar.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I have not.


The date builder I ask for requires a bog-standard Gregorian calendar,
not a localized one, because it is used to turn things like
network-layer timestamps into Dates, and low-layer stuff uses pretty
standardized formats. It's dates, intervals, and timing policies dropped
in by the user (as ordinary input, or as part of the local business
rules configuration) that (arguably!) need a full-blown general Calendar
system. And I'd still warrant that for 99% of major business
applications a bog-standard Gregorian calendar does the job here too.

But why settle for a 99% solution when a 100% solution exist ??

There are no need to go backwards.

And how often is a file's time-stamp or something similar encoded in any
other than the Gregorian calendar?

Files time stamps are stored in binary format not text format.

If they are to be displayed as text accordingly to locale they may need
another calendar than Gregorian.

Sure it is. The BLL asks a policy object when to do these things. The
policy object is a dependency injection from the PL, and its specific
implementation is really part of the PL. That is the only sensible
architecture, because the BLL should not be cluttered up with
locale-dependent code or special cases; it should delegate to a policy
object that can be set appropriately at installation/setup time.

No no no.

PL is concerned about presentation.

BLL is concerned about the logic.

When to do certain things is part of logic not part of
presentation.

Even if the class is DI'ed in then the class is still part of BLL.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

The general pattern to use here is dependency injection: the business
logic layer gets passed a BusinessRules object that has methods like
isRentDue() and the like that can apply business rules. This object may
be parametrized or polymorphic, may use a Calendar or be picked from a
resource bundle by Locale, the BLL doesn't care so long as it implements
the BusinessRules interface. It gets handed down from on high, from the
layer that knows Locales and such issues, having been told which to use
by the user during installation and configuration.

That is an OK way of doing it, but the class is still part of BLL.

And that is exactly why they belong outside the core logic of a program,

This is why they are needed in BLL, because a lot of real world logic
depends on them.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Fascinating. The UI layer can keep track of these things for the user.
Why do you think a deeper layer should be charged with telling the user
when garbage day is in his area or whatever?

Because it is not presentation.

You do not put logic about when to do what in the PL.

If you mean internal functions of the software, like rolling the logs
every Wednesday, it would be rolling the logs every 7*86400*1000ms under
the hood, starting at some particular time value, which during
configuration some user set up to be Wednesdays at 2AM, that being
converted near the UI layer into ms since the epoch and passed down to
the lower layer that actually implements the log-rolling behavior.

If the user lives in Fooblia where they have an eight-day week, the 7 in
the above might actually be a parameter also passed down from the higher
layer.

Knowing the length of a week is not a presentation thing.

What mystifies me, besides your brutish attitude, is your apparent
confusion on this score. Either you're terrible at OO design
fundamentals or you've confused the programming-technical meaning of
"business logic" with the colloquial meaning of "business".

Why do you think it is called Business Logic ? Because it often is
non-IT business related.

Oh - and layering has nothing to do with OOP - you have misunderstood
that.

You seem to
be using "business logic" to mean the sorts of things that would go into
a BusinessRules object and would represent the way a business conducts
its business,

That is one of the core things in BLL.

rather than to mean the guts of the computer program's
logic at the lower levels where it fiddles with Integers and tweaks
HashMaps, above the I/O (network, DB, disk) layer and below

BLL does some of these things, but it is really not what BLL is
about.

The above is core things in DAL and utility classes.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Yes. This is comp.lang.java.programmer. And contrary to what that name
might seem to suggest, according to its charter it is a newsgroup for
discussing Java programmING, not Java programmERS. So discussing me is
not on topic here, nor is discussing fairy-tales, only discussing Java.

I think it is polite to answer questions from newbies even though they
may be slightly off topic.

Arne

 

[hzergel901]

Mike Schilling wrote:
Lew wrote:
Damn it. [implied insult deleted]
[implied insult deleted]. De mortuis [rest of suspected
insult deleted], as my momma used to say.

None of the nasty things that Lew has said or implied about me are at
all true.

Out of curiosity, what does this have to do with Java?

It has at least as much to do with Java as the attack post to which it
is a response.

 

[Lew]

No. It changed about five hours later, when 1752-09-02 ended and
1752-09-14 began in certain Colonies. He never came here, and by then
he was long back from Barbados.

The American colonies used to be part of the U.K., duhy, until a little thing
called the American Revolution. Or should I have said the Empire instead of
the U.K.?

And five hours later than what?

March 29th may have been New Year's Day, but March 25th was commonly
used. March 1st would be a better choice, /aliter aequalis/.

Oops. I meant 25th. Thanks for the correction.

The point remains that calendars are messy.

 

[Lew]

Lew conceded that the JSR people are correct.

And proved that your assumptions about his opinion view was wrong.

Quite so.

 

[Lew]

I think it is called "culture".

Besides it is said to make learning other languages (those with roots
in Latin) a lot easier to learn.

Where I come from then Latin was an option both in last year of
elementary/middle school and in high school (or the equivalents
of those).

Where I went to junior high school, a public school in New York State, they
taught Latin.

But I learned /op. cit./, /supra/, /infra/, /ibid./, /cf./, /i.e./, /e.g./,
and /etc./ in English class in junior high, high school and college. The only
references in which I find these abbreviations readily are English
dictionaries and style guides. The only places I've seen them used are in
English language documents like journal articles, essays, etc.

 

[Lew]

It has at least as much to do with Java as the attack post to which it
is a response.

Plink.

 

[hzergel901]

It has at least as much to do with Java as the attack post to which it
is a response.

[suspected implied insult deleted]

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[Lew]

It has at least as much to do with Java as the attack post to which it
is a response.

[suspected implied insult deleted]

"Plink" is an implied insult, Paul?

It was a warning. Now plonk - I am sick and tired of your continual hiding
between different aliases so you can perpetrate your egoistic nonsense on this
group. Stick with one id, why don't you?

Don't bother answering - "plonk" means you've been killfiled, Paul.

Again. As each of your aliases will be as you reveal your new identity by
means of your pathological behavior.

 

[John W Kennedy]

The American colonies used to be part of the U.K., duhy, until a little
thing called the American Revolution. Or should I have said the Empire
instead of the U.K.?

And five hours later than what?

He's quibbling about time zones.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The pathetic hope that the White House will turn a Caligula into a
Marcus Aurelius is as naïve as the fear that ultimate power inevitably
corrupts."
-- James D. Barber (1930-2004)

 

[John W Kennedy]

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with not having an education IN LATIN.
NOBODY much has an education in Latin anymore. There are respected
Ph.D.s that know less Latin than I do. In fact, beyond knowing specific
Latin-derived terminology for some scientific field or similarly,
knowledge of Latin is almost useless. Nowadays, knowing the language
itself, and not just a vocabulary laced with borrowings into English
from Latin, is basically only important if you're a historian with an
interest in Europe in Roman times.

"Only... in Roman times," forsooth? Is there truly no end to your ignorance?


--
John W. Kennedy
"The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in
their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is
suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has
become full of /Pooh./"
-- Frederick Crews. "Postmodern Pooh", Preface

 

[John W Kennedy]

Arne Vajhoj (sorry, can't type the funny zero
character)

On the behalf of the United States of America, I'd like to apologize to
Arne Vajhøj and to speakers of the Danish and Norwegian languages
everywhere. With the results of the new election, we hope to reduce the
frequency of this sort of shameful display of jingoism.

To Paul "Harold Yarmouth" Derbyshire:

It actually takes a few minutes of work to set up a US Windows system to
be able to type the letter "ø", which, by the way, is neither an "o" nor
a "0", but a distinct letter in its own right, the twenty-eighth (or
twenty-seventh, if "w" is not counted) of the Dano-Norwegian alphabet.
It is also used in the International Phonetic Alphabet to represent the
same sound that those two languages use it for. (Other languages employ
"ö" and "œ" for it; it is the sound in German "schön" or "Vögel".

Because I don't have a working Windows system to hand, I won't try to
describe the process, but the key concept is to install a US
International keyboard layout.

Of course, if you had an ounce of wit about you, you could have pasted
it in, anyway.

 

[Lew]

On the behalf of the United States of America, I'd like to apologize to

Actually, since Paul is Canadian, there is no shame redounding to the ol' U.S.
of A.

Arne Vajhøj and to speakers of the Danish and Norwegian languages
everywhere. With the results of the new election, we hope to reduce the
frequency of this sort of shameful display of jingoism.

.... [potentially truthful but harsh comments that may be taken by one as
insulting omitted] ...

I have been curious for ages how to pronounce Arne's surname. Being an
ignorant American myself, my best guess is probably wrong. If you wish to
answer, Arne, I sure would appreciate knowing how to pronounce your name
correctly.