Python 3.0 migration plans?

G

George Sakkis

One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
hit with RTFM! and the like.
Click to expand...

Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
being wrong in as many sentences as possible:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
few weeks or months.

George
 
S

Steve Holden

George said:
Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
being wrong in as many sentences as possible:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
few weeks or months.

George
Click to expand...
Hopefully with a side dish of alt.attitude.adjustment.

It's not that we don't want you. it's just that you don't seem to
realize how annoying you can be.

n the other hand, if you *do* realize how annoying you can be then
please leave now and never come back ;-)

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline
 
S

Steve Holden

George said:
Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
being wrong in as many sentences as possible:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
few weeks or months.

George
Click to expand...
Hopefully with a side dish of alt.attitude.adjustment.

It's not that we don't want you. it's just that you don't seem to
realize how annoying you can be.

n the other hand, if you *do* realize how annoying you can be then
please leave now and never come back ;-)

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline
 
T

TheFlyingDutchman

Which shows once again that you're trying to break the world record of
being wrong in as many sentences as possible:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor

You would do yourself (and others) a favor by migrating there for a
few weeks or months.

George
Click to expand...

Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.
 
G

George Sakkis

Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
extension modules. Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
There's not even an archive. Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
URLs.

Take a look at how Perl does it. Here are the instructions on
how to contribute to CPAN:

http://www.cpan.org/modules/04pause.html

There's a way to get your module into the system, a standardized format,
build, and installation procedure, and an archive which is mirrored.
There's a common bug reporting system. Modules abandoned by their
original developers are not lost, and can be "adopted" by someone else.

Python doesn't have any of this. And that's far more of a problem
than Python 3.x.
Click to expand...

Does Perl support extension modules, and if so, are they so prevalent
as in Python ? Either case, bringing up CPAN is moot in this case;
nothing can force an external open source contributor to maintain or
provide binaries for his packages. How is this a problem of the
*language* ?

George
 
S

Steve Holden

TheFlyingDutchman said:
Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.
Click to expand...
That's because the tutor list doesn't offer a newsgroup. He was probably
just trying to get rid of you.

Now at 98.75% ...

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden

Sorry, the dog ate my .sigline
 
C

Carsten Haese

Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.
Click to expand...

nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.tutor
 
T

TheFlyingDutchman

I would characterize

"""
I like how someone here characterized decorators - those silly @
things. They remind me of Perl. Not adding keywords for abstract and
static is like Perl not adding a keyword for class.
"""

not as seeking enlightenment, but as pure trolling. Disqualifying features
without actually understanding them as "silly" certainly doesn't lie on one
of the many path's to enlightenment known man - which to my knowledge
usually require more humble approaches....
Click to expand...

Some posts seek enlightenment, some voice opinions. Opinions aren't
always voiced humbly. I don't think you will have to look far for
examples of people other than myself not expressing opinions humbly.
And I wish people that have no clue about the deeper workings of Python
wouldn't insist on commenting on these in inappropriate ways as above, but
instead try and _understand_ them before debunking them or suggesting
changes.
Click to expand...

I will grant you that "silly" is too strong a word to use in a group
of ardent users but I think it should be completely valid to gripe
about the syntax at least once.
 
C

Colin J. Williams

Steve said:
This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with
incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into
your mind?

regards
Steve
Click to expand...
Tut Tut!

A reasonable question is being asked.

Colin W.
 
C

Colin J. Williams

Steve said:
This is like listening to a four-year-old torment its parents with
incessant questions. Do you *have* to ask every question that pops into
your mind?

regards
Steve
Click to expand...
Tut Tut!

A reasonable question is being asked.

Colin W.
 
K

Kay Schluehr

Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
extension modules. Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
There's not even an archive. Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory of
URLs.
Click to expand...

John, can't you please piss off?

Thanks, Kay
 
C

Colin J. Williams

TheFlyingDutchman said:
I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
opinions that diverge from the majority. +1

One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
hit with RTFM! and the like.
Click to expand...
 
C

Colin J. Williams

TheFlyingDutchman said:
I don't think it would be correct to characterize my posts as not
seeking enlightenment. I do also happen to voice my opinion which
seems appropriate since this can be characterized as a discussion
group. It theoretically is possible for a discussion group to tolerate
opinions that diverge from the majority. +1

One issue I have with this group and that I encountered many years ago
in the Perl group is that there is no separate group
comp.lang.python.beginner where you can ask questions without getting
hit with RTFM! and the like.
Click to expand...
 
T

TheFlyingDutchman

That's because the tutor list doesn't offer a newsgroup. He was probably
just trying to get rid of you.

Now at 98.75% ...
Click to expand...

Not sure if that's the reading on your trollmeter or on the meter that
measures what percentage of your posts you get huffy.
 
E

Erik Jones

Being in a land where every nit can be picked, I am surprised that you
offered up a mailing list when I was asking for a newsgroup.
Click to expand...

I'm usually pretty quiet on this list. That's what I find is the
best way to participate. However, I'm going to have to speak up and
point out that that response is exactly the type of comment and/or
reasoning that everyone here is trying to explain to you. The
resources are available for you to educate yourself. Semantic
arguments such as this are, at best, at a junior high level. You are
completely free to ask any question (about Python) you want here --
just don't argue with the people giving you the answers. And, to
address the actual content of that response: nobody, online or off,
in newsgroups or on mailing lists, likes a nitpick. So, please,
quit. I'd prefer you didn't leave and, instead, decided to actually,
actively get along with the others here. I think some of the
question you've begun threads with have been both good and valid.
It's just that you need some work on your e-people skills, man.

Erik Jones

Software Developer | Emma®
(e-mail address removed)
800.595.4401 or 615.292.5888
615.292.0777 (fax)

Emma helps organizations everywhere communicate & market in style.
Visit us online at http://www.myemma.com
 
R

Richard Jones

John said:
Insofar as Python has an organization, it's not adequately managing
extension modules. Each extension module has its own infrastructure,
with its own build procedures, its own bug list, and its own maintainers.
There's not even an archive. Unlike CPAN, Cheese Shop is just a directory
of URLs.
Click to expand...

Ah, it's not usenet without someone speaking from ignorance! :)


Richard
 
J

John Nagle

George said:
Does Perl support extension modules, and if so, are they so prevalent
as in Python ?
Click to expand...

Yes, Perl supports non-Perl extension modules. But most of the
important ones are either maintained as part of the standard Perl distribution,
or supported by the organization that provides whatever they link to.
For example, MySQL AB supports a Perl binding to MySQL, but not a
Python binding.

John Nagle
 
A

Ant

I've posted my vote. However, I guess it won't be that simple in
practice. I suspect that the following is more likely:

1) Migrate to 3000 fairly soon after release for scripts and new
projects for which required third party modules are available for 3k
2) Migrate existing projects to 3k a) when frameworks/modules that
they use are available and b) if and when doing so would be
advantageous.

I suspect that many of the projects I have that are solid and are in
no imminent need of development will remain <3k for several years.

Cheers,
 

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