SYNCHRONIZING problem

C

Chris Uppal

Patricia said:
To read what you call "shorthand" I have to slow down and sound
out individual letters and words, just the way I did when I was learning
to read.

Me too.

Which is about half the reason why I almost immediately killfiled your
correspondent here (the other half of the reason being his stoppily arrogant
attitude[*]).

-- chris


[*] I can take stroppy, I don't usually mind arrogance if it has something to
back it up (it can even be appropriate sometimes), but the combination is less
than appealing.
 
T

Thomas Kellerer

Patricia Shanahan wrote on 17.03.2007 06:34:
I don't usually get involved in the grammar fights - I just don't
respond to postings that seem to me to be unnecessarily unreadable.

Same here.

If everybody did that, maybe we wouldn't have that many people that simply
ignore that courtesy against other people should also be applied when writing.
*Especially* if that someone is asking for free help.
 
L

Lew

Lew said:
Chris said:
[*] I can take stroppy, I don't usually mind arrogance if it has
something to
back it up (it can even be appropriate sometimes), but the combination
is less
than appealing.

Advice for the stroppy:

<http://www.dalecarnegie.wwwhubs.com/>
"One of the core ideas in his books is that it is possible to change other
people's behavior by changing one's reaction to them."

I really should read the book some day.

-- Lew
 
A

adrian.bartholomew

interesting twist.

So why didn't you bother to reply to either of my specific points on the
history and nature of newsgroups?

...
it is extremely funny to me, coming from a british background in
education, to be corrected by an american, whose constant bastardizing
of the english language sets off many heated debates around the world.
americans have changed spelling and pronunciations (note...not
pronounciations...as is so the american way) that really should not be
changed. for eg. the coveted "our" suffix (the plural of which is
"suffices" and not "suffixes") that make the language beautiful has
been changed to "or" in many words and conveniently left as is in
some. the "r" in "hour, for e.g., was never meant to be pronounced,
hence the spelling. listen to any well bred person in any english
speaking country other than america.

I am English, but live in California. The fact that you seem to think
I'm American is a nice demonstration of the quality of my American
dialect writing.

I use American spelling in contexts where American is the more
conventional dialect. That includes newsgroups where the majority of
readers are likely to be more familiar with American, business writing
within US-based corporations, academic papers submitted to American
publications, and e-mail to my American friends.

I switch my spell checker over to English spellings when I'm writing to
my mother. She can read American, but is more familiar with English. The
point is that, because my objective is to communicate, I try to make my
writing as readable as possible for my audience.
i CAN spell and am impeccable with my grammar when i need to be. and
this is not that place. what seemed funny to my previous critiques
(which brings to mind the bastardized "check" as opposed to "cheque",
a whole "nuther" word), was still me not caring about the
correctedness of my typing text online. i was not trying to be
grammatically correct. that was the whole point. they just didnt get
it. i dont care.

I know you don't care.
wise men walk all the way around a tree to end up right back at the
beginning, much the wiser. Miles Davis once said, learn all u can
about ur instrument. everything there is to know about it. then forget
everything u learnt.
at that point, u need to prove no more. feel.
who cares about if i use shorthand. they can all FEEL what im saying.
this...is true understanding.

No, I feel the meaning when I look at conventional English or American
writing. To read what you call "shorthand" I have to slow down and sound
out individual letters and words, just the way I did when I was learning
to read. Even then, there is often some guesswork involved.
not the forum for this topic, i apologize.
thanks for listening Patricia.

So how about responding to what I wrote?[

Patricia

so my dear friends. i am in a gang war facing my impending doom at the
hands of the almighty verbose intellectuals.
patricia, i will get back to u on the subject that is really the focus
of ur reply. did not mean to diss u. promise.
i just keep getting sidetracked with the mob's sticks and stones.

first, i never assumed that YOU were american. as a matter of FACT, i
suspected ur difference, though this may not please ur affinity toward
cultural merging when it comes to communication through language. no
insult intended.
if ur mom decided to cut u off because u didnt write to her in
british, u would begin to understand the reason for my continued
debate on the extremety of the replies.

my rebuttals have to do with the SERIOUSNESS in which the mob is
handling a very trivial issue that is, in my not so humble opinion,
not nearly as extreme as our good friend Andrew Thompson poked me with
and a good deal substantive enough for any scientist to partake. since
when do scientists not talk to each other in the lab in a relaxed
manner? i do. u should hear us in TRINIDAD. u wont understand a thing
and its STILL english. lol.
my point is that this, MY, case is way too grey to warrant all the
hate mail thats received on this particular topic.

to begin answering ur questions Patricia, electronic communication
began with the meagerest of codes. for eg. morse code, then telex etc.
one can separate the "usenet" groups from the historical connection as
much as he wants but its not.
would u impeach a president because he lied about running a traffic
light? maybe in THIS country but the impeachment law was not written
in that spirit. nor is the need for exactedness in scientific
communication where this thread is concerned. save the accuracy for
the subject itself if u need to, i say.
i see code written here with descriptions to its problem that is
SOOOOO confusing due to the lack of the understanding of conciseness,
punctuation and general grammer that its hard to believe they're
picking on lil old ME.
i will continue anwering ur questions a little later.

gotta get some more usenet help:)
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

to begin answering ur questions Patricia, electronic communication
began with the meagerest of codes. for eg. morse code, then telex etc.
one can separate the "usenet" groups from the historical connection as
much as he wants but its not.

If I understand this sentence, I agree that one has to look at USENET in
historical context.

I have used TELEX, and I don't remember seeing arbitrary abbreviations
such as "ur". I believe there are specialized systems of agreed
abbreviations for certain TELEX-dependent fields such as shipping, but I
was not aware of any system of abbreviations for computer software.

Messages tended to be carefully composed, because of the difficulty and
cost of resolving any misunderstanding, so arbitrary spelling and
abbreviations would be unlikely.

My personal knowledge of USENET history only really extends back to
1983, when I started using it. However, http://groups.google.com has an
extensive archive which can be searched by date.

I don't remember seeing "u", "ur" etc. much in technical newsgroups
until very recently, about the last 5 years. Early messages in the
archive for net.lang.c match my recollection.

Patricia
 
F

fy4.net

ok i cant take it anymore. i need help!

let me describe my java solution as best i could pertaining to my
problem.
it is a card game. u know, server app as the brain and fancy gui for
the applet clients that u surf via "cardgame.com" for eg.
now....
the server side of things basically consists of a "ConnectionListener"
that listens for clients wanting to play (connect to the table). each
time it detects someone trying to connect, it spins of a
"PlayListener" thread who's main purpose is to listen to that client's
"plays".
so lets say we have 4 people playing the game, we have 1
ConnectionListener and 4 PlayListeners.
thats 5 threads.
all the methods of play reside in the main program CardGameServer.
dealCards(), playCard(), shuffleAnimation(), cutPack() etc.
now i like animation. a lot. u know, like a card shuffle animation or
the cards coming off the table 1 by 1 after a round of play.
this, i achieved by having the CardGameServer implement Runnable. in
the run() method there are many if(flag) clauses that,
if( flag==true), a particular animation is run. for eg.

if (cutAnim){
cutAnim();
}
if (shuffleAnim){
shuffleAnim();
}
if (gameStage==3 &&
getPlayer(fourMax(sg.dealer.playerNum-1)).robot!=null){
cut();
}
if (gameStage==8 && // 8 means: 1st card played and round has not
yet ended.
getPlayer(fourMax(sg.rd.currTurn)).robot==null && //not a robot
getPlayer(fourMax(sg.rd.currTurn)).hand.size()==1 && //1 card
left
sg.rd.currPlay<5 // 4th card not yet played
){
doPlay(getPlayer(fourMax(sg.rd.currTurn)).hand.elementAt(0)); //
only card left
} //if only 1 card remains in the hand, play it automatically

so when i want an animation performed, i simply switch one of these
flags to true.
when it enters, say, cutAnim(), the 1st line of code in cutAnim()
switches the flag back to false so theres no possibility of falsely re-
entering the animation.
the run routine is in an endless while(true) loop, forever searching
for "true" flags or robot plays.
if there is a better way of performing these animations without using
up valuable thread processing time, pleeeease let me know. i cant
imagine a 100 instances of the gameserver all continuously looping.

anyway, onward.

i have also created AI robots that u can assign to the table instead
of waiting indefinitely for human players to log in.
when its their turn to play, the endless run loop simply checks to see
if the player whose "currTurn" it is, is not human
(getPlayer(......currTurn).robot!=null and a host of other checks like
gameStage etc. once these meet the criteria, it goes into the AI code
to find the best play and does it.
the difference is, the AI's play is instigated from the thread
commanding the run() method of the CardGameServer class.
whereas the human's play is instigated from the playListener Class
which calls methods residing in the CardGameServer class.

the problem for me arises when i try to put a lock on the animation.
if i dont, sometimes it gets corrupted and the animation goes awry. in
the past (b4 i learned about the synchronized keyword), i suspend
either the playListener thread or the server thread, afterward
resuming. it worked fine except under a particular circumstance, if
the human did the shuffling and a robot cut the pack, the human would
hang when trying to make a play (maybe deadlock?).
added to the fact that these keywords are now defunct, i opted for a
cleaner design using synchronized.
ive tried adding wait() and notifyAll() but nothing works. either the
human hangs ot the robot hangs.
i need the animations to complete without any interference from a
human command coming in.
but i also need the damn thing to work. from start to finish no matter
what ratio of humans to robots are on the table

help.

More see here!
http://www.flash50.com/index.php
 
L

Lars Enderin

Patricia Shanahan skrev:
If I understand this sentence, I agree that one has to look at USENET in
historical context.

I have used TELEX, and I don't remember seeing arbitrary abbreviations
such as "ur". I believe there are specialized systems of agreed
abbreviations for certain TELEX-dependent fields such as shipping, but I
was not aware of any system of abbreviations for computer software.

Messages tended to be carefully composed, because of the difficulty and
cost of resolving any misunderstanding, so arbitrary spelling and
abbreviations would be unlikely.

My personal knowledge of USENET history only really extends back to
1983, when I started using it. However, http://groups.google.com has an
extensive archive which can be searched by date.

I don't remember seeing "u", "ur" etc. much in technical newsgroups
until very recently, about the last 5 years. Early messages in the
archive for net.lang.c match my recollection.

I also fail to see why Adrian keeps using silly abbreviations despite
the responses he is getting. Not using capital letters to start
sentences and in the pronoun I further reduces readability.
He may save some marginal amount of effort, but he puts an unnecessary
burden on all his readers (a dwindling group).
 
G

Gordon Beaton

I also fail to see why Adrian keeps using silly abbreviations
despite the responses he is getting. Not using capital letters to
start sentences and in the pronoun I further reduces readability. He
may save some marginal amount of effort, but he puts an unnecessary
burden on all his readers (a dwindling group).

I fail to see why this issue continues to engage people as much as it
does. I remember a time when people were helpful and discussed java,
when the biggest faux-pas was failing to post code that illustrates
the problem.

"Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send".

/gordon
 
P

Patrick May

Gordon Beaton said:
I fail to see why this issue continues to engage people as much as
it does.

From the perspective of someone not involved in this thread, it
seems to me to be a matter of courtesy. It is rude to write in such a
way that your intended audience must expend additional effort to
understand what you're trying to communicated.

It is also counter productive. I am far more inclined personally
to skip posts written in a text-speak or IM style. I don't believe
I'm in the minority. If someone is too lazy and sloppy to even
attempt to write properly, it is likely that the content of their
writing is of correspondingly low quality.

Before this turns into a flame war, let me be clear that I don't
include people writing in their non-native language in this
assessment.

Regards,

Patrick
 
L

Lew

I don't know that it would have engaged people this much if the OP had taken
the original helpful hint instead of responding with rudeness and hostility to
the help. Every time someone has tried to suggest to the OP that better
communication would result in better help, they responded with sarcasm and
hostility, and refused to improve. They even issued an ungrammatical challenge
to a grammar contest and really got on their high horse. This is the sort of
thing that engages me, anyway.

Patrick said:
From the perspective of someone not involved in this thread, it
seems to me to be a matter of courtesy. It is rude to write in such a
way that your intended audience must expend additional effort to
understand what you're trying to communicated.

It is also counter productive. I am far more inclined personally
to skip posts written in a text-speak or IM style. I don't believe
I'm in the minority. If someone is too lazy and sloppy to even
attempt to write properly, it is likely that the content of their
writing is of correspondingly low quality.

Exactly the points we've been trying to make to the OP, who then responds with
cussing and rudeness.
Before this turns into a flame war, let me be clear that I don't
include people writing in their non-native language in this
assessment.


I don't think anyone is excoriating bad grammar or misspellings as such. It is
the deliberate use of "textese" or "SMSese" or "l33t" that is at issue.
Besides, the OP claims to be a maven of grammar and further claims that their
command of English is superior, so the issue of non-native speakers is moot in
this instance. They brag about being English and incite:
u [sic] will be hard pressed [sic] to compete proper [sic] english [sic] grammer [sic] with me.

So the real issue in this thread is not even "textese" but the OP's
unregenerate hostility and rudeness.

-- Lew
 
A

adrian.bartholomew

Patricia Shanahan skrev:









I also fail to see why Adrian keeps using silly abbreviations despite
the responses he is getting. Not using capital letters to start
sentences and in the pronoun I further reduces readability.
He may save some marginal amount of effort, but he puts an unnecessary
burden on all his readers (a dwindling group).

again, someone with nothing to do. in case u did not notice, i was NOT
speaking to any other "reader" in this last post but Patricia. thank u
for ur superior opinion.
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

Lew wrote:
....
So the real issue in this thread is not even "textese" but the OP's
unregenerate hostility and rudeness.

The only subject in this subthread that really interests me is a
comment the OP made about the nature and history of USENET as
justification for the use of textese:

"this is still the internet. a forum that was designed WITH shorthand in
mind."

These statements do not match my recollection and understanding of the
history of USENET and the Internet, so I'd like to see the evidence.

Patricia
 
L

Lew

again, someone with nothing to do. in case u did not notice, i was NOT
speaking to any other "reader" in this last post but Patricia. thank u
for ur superior opinion.

When you post on Usenet, you post to all. All are thus invited to respond.
That's the way it is.

Why don't you try cooperating? There are many people here eager to help as
soon as that chip comes off your shoulder. Every suggestion to which you have
responded with negativity has been an effort to assist you. A more appropriate
response is, "Thank you!"

Yes, I am trying to help you. I have nothing against you. I would love nothing
more here than for you to be able to get the assistance you say you want.

But coming back with comments like "thank u [sic] for ur [sic] superior
opinioin" is no way to win friends and influence people.

Really, we're trying to help you, specifically, adrian.bartholomew, with your
technical issues. How about you help us help you?

-- Lew
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

again, someone with nothing to do. in case u did not notice, i was NOT
speaking to any other "reader" in this last post but Patricia. thank u
for ur superior opinion.

If you want to talk just to me, please use e-mail. USENET postings, by
their nature, are open to response and comment by all participants. You
can, of course, choose to ignore any posting, just as you ignored my
request for the evidence behind your comment that "this is still the
internet. a forum that was designed WITH shorthand in mind."

Patricia
 
A

adrian.bartholomew

I have used TELEX, and I don't remember seeing arbitrary abbreviations
such as "ur". I believe there are specialized systems of agreed
abbreviations for certain TELEX-dependent fields such as shipping, but I
was not aware of any system of abbreviations for computer software.

do u get from my posts that i LITERALLY suggest that TELEX used modern
chat room shorthand?
computer language IS a shorthand of sorts isnt it? i know its a far
cry from arbitrary use but im trying to paint broad strokes here.

Messages tended to be carefully composed, because of the difficulty and
cost of resolving any misunderstanding, so arbitrary spelling and
abbreviations would be unlikely.

thing is....i agree with this.
I don't remember seeing "u", "ur" etc. much in technical newsgroups
until very recently, about the last 5 years. Early messages in the
archive for net.lang.c match my recollection.

u r correct.
but it is because they had not become a part of the culture yet. do u
believe that many laws were not cultural customs first?
life is built on laziness. muscle groups grow from weight training
BECAUSE they're lazy. they dont want to have to exert that kind of
work again, so they're ready the next time u assault them. they have
become stronger, thus bigger. u control this by using the dangling
carrot technique. thats how the body adapts and thats one of the ways
evolution works.
evolution is not only physical, its also cultural.
maybe this is way off topic and i dont want to turn it into "that"
forum but this is where my heart surrounds the reasoning for my
innocent "shorthand".

though Gordon May is not necessarily agreeing with me, i love his
quote. thats the spirit of my argument.
this is a JAVA forum. this thread has become a forum for uptight
elitists many of whom do not even qualify. so why bother?
Patrick May TRIED to poke for eg., but in the end he had to add many
disclaimers to his attack, usually a sign that the "theory" is wrong.

adrian.
 
P

Patrick May

Patrick May TRIED to poke for eg., but in the end he had to add many
disclaimers to his attack, usually a sign that the "theory" is
wrong.

It appears that your reading comprehension is as limited as your
communication abilities. Let me put it so that you can understand it:
Your presentation and content suggest that you are both rude and
stupid.

Is that sufficiently clear for you to give credence to my
"theory"?

Sincerely,

Patrick
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

do u get from my posts that i LITERALLY suggest that TELEX used modern
chat room shorthand?

Then I'm afraid I don't see your point here. What is it about TELEX that
does support your position?
u r correct.
but it is because they had not become a part of the culture yet. do u
believe that many laws were not cultural customs first?

This has nothing to do with your comment that I am questioning: "this is
still the internet. a forum that was designed WITH shorthand in mind."
Perhaps you could close this subthread by simply stating the evidence
that caused you to take that position?

Patricia
 
J

Joshua Cranmer

but it is because they had not become a part of the culture yet. do u
believe that many laws were not cultural customs first?
life is built on laziness. muscle groups grow from weight training
BECAUSE they're lazy. they dont want to have to exert that kind of
work again, so they're ready the next time u assault them. they have
become stronger, thus bigger. u control this by using the dangling
carrot technique. thats how the body adapts and thats one of the ways
evolution works.

I disagree with this statement: when you work out, you are actually
killing a few of your muscle cells, so they regenerate more prolifically
as a sort of "safeguard" from future attacks -- natural selection. Most
laziness is actually counterproductive to evolution: our bodies place
high values on fat to improve our condition, and stagnation is now
killing our bodies a la obesity.

Also, just because you can be lazy doesn't mean you should. Imagine
driving half a mile to go to the grocery store to pick up, say, a
12-pack of soda. It is much more efficient to bike ride up to the store
and get said soda, it helps the environment and your body, saves you
money, but takes effort for most people. Don't say it can't be done --
I've held two 12-packs on my bike before.

evolution is not only physical, its also cultural.
maybe this is way off topic and i dont want to turn it into "that"
forum but this is where my heart surrounds the reasoning for my
innocent "shorthand".

though Gordon May is not necessarily agreeing with me, i love his
quote. thats the spirit of my argument.
this is a JAVA forum. this thread has become a forum for uptight
elitists many of whom do not even qualify. so why bother?
Patrick May TRIED to poke for eg., but in the end he had to add many
disclaimers to his attack, usually a sign that the "theory" is wrong.

I recall reading somewhere that posting your code opens you up to
assault on your design. I originally commented on your grammar and
spelling because it was detracting from the problem and made your point
less clear; solutions are a lot easier to obtain if someone can easily
read the problem.

Elsewhere you commented that the nature of computer languages sparked
shorthand. I disagree with you on this point: maybe assembly uses
shorthand (but it's generally more verbose overall), but most
programming conventions abhor shorthand unless there is precedent, e.g.
with URL as opposed to Uniform Resource Locater. Look at Java: except
for the common abbreviations (char for character, int for integer, and
common acronyms), everything is expanded into full-word form: even
'boolean' instead of C++'s 'bool'.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
473,774
Messages
2,569,599
Members
45,170
Latest member
Andrew1609
Top