Accelerated C++ book outdated?

Discussion in 'C++' started by Markus Dreyer, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy

    Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/

    but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
    lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
    new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
    given you already have programming experience in another prog. language?
     
    Markus Dreyer, Jan 21, 2004
    #1
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  2. Markus Dreyer

    jeffc Guest

    "Markus Dreyer" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying.


    Now that seems to me to be a pretty clueless thing to say. I'll leave it to
    the experts whether the book needs any updating due to very recent changes
    in the language, however.
     
    jeffc, Jan 21, 2004
    #2
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  3. Markus Dreyer wrote:
    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw
    > a lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated?
    > Is a new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++
    > quickly given you already have programming experience in another prog.
    > language?
    >


    She doesn't know what she's talking about.
    Accelerated C++ is not outdated. It is the best
    book of it's kind. C++ was standardized in 1998
    and haven't changed since. So the book is as up to
    date as can be. And it is brilliant. Buy it!

    /David
     
    David Rasmussen, Jan 21, 2004
    #3
  4. "Markus Dreyer" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...

    perhaps you should consulting your faculty.

    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
    > lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
    > new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
    > given you already have programming experience in another prog. language?
    >
     
    Bryan Bullard, Jan 21, 2004
    #4
  5. Markus Dreyer wrote:

    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo



    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/


    > but she replied saying that it might be outdated
    > since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.


    That's probably correct.

    > I don't have the book.
    > I just saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web.
    > Do you think that it's outdated? Is a new version planned?


    Andrew may want to answer this.

    > What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
    > you already have programming experience
    > in another programming language?


    "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
     
    E. Robert Tisdale, Jan 21, 2004
    #5
  6. Markus Dreyer

    Mike Smith Guest

    Markus Dreyer wrote:

    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying.


    Your librarian is a C++ expert? Wow. Is she cute? ;-)

    --
    Mike Smith
     
    Mike Smith, Jan 21, 2004
    #6
  7. "David Rasmussen" <> wrote in message
    news:bumtp8$mn7$-c.dk...

    >
    > She doesn't know what she's talking about.
    > Accelerated C++ is not outdated. It is the best
    > book of it's kind. C++ was standardized in 1998
    > and haven't changed since. So the book is as up to
    > date as can be. And it is brilliant. Buy it!
    >


    I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book on
    C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from 2000.
    However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.

    Jonathan
     
    Jonathan Turkanis, Jan 21, 2004
    #7
  8. "E. Robert Tisdale" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Markus Dreyer wrote:
    >


    [The is for the benefit of the OP. Robert, there's no need to respond]


    >
    > > What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
    > > you already have programming experience
    > > in another programming language?

    >
    > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
    >


    The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was finalized.
    There are a number of places where statements in the third edition do
    not agree with the standard (addressed throroughly on Bjarne's
    website.)

    The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.

    All three are excellent. The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is
    ridiculous.
     
    Jonathan Turkanis, Jan 22, 2004
    #8
  9. Jonathan Turkanis wrote:

    > E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
    >
    >>"The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.

    >
    > The third edition came out in 1997, before the standard was finalized.
    > There are a number of places where statements in the third edition do
    > not agree with the standard (addressed thoroughly on Bjarne's
    > website.)
    >
    > The most recent edition, I believe, is from 2000.
    >
    > All three are excellent.
    > The idea that Accelerated C++ is outdated is ridiculous.


    In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
    *all* of these texts are "outdated".
     
    E. Robert Tisdale, Jan 22, 2004
    #9
  10. "E. Robert Tisdale" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
    >


    >
    > In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been

    drafted,
    > *all* of these texts are "outdated".
    >


    See my original post.
     
    Jonathan Turkanis, Jan 22, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    Markus Dreyer <> wrote:

    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying. I don't have the book, I just saw a
    > lot of recommendations for it on the web. Do you think it's outdated? Is a
    > new version planned? What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly
    > given you already have programming experience in another prog. language?
    >


    Accelerated C++ is the best beginner's C++ book on the market today.
    Highly recommended. Own a copy of it myself. If I wanted to teach a
    basic C++ course today, I would definitely use this book as the course
    text.

    Howard Hinnant
    Metrowerks

    Member of C++ standards committee.
    painfully aware of every little change since 2000 and responsible for a
    few of them myself.
     
    Howard Hinnant, Jan 22, 2004
    #11
  12. "E. Robert Tisdale" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Markus Dreyer wrote:
    >
    > > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    > >
    > > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo

    >
    >
    > > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/

    >
    > > but she replied saying that it might be outdated
    > > since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.

    >
    > That's probably correct.


    It is not. AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books. it
    is an excellent book that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
    In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
    often, rather than some proprietary system.


    > > I don't have the book.
    > > I just saw a lot of recommendations for it on the web.
    > > Do you think that it's outdated? Is a new version planned?

    >
    > Andrew may want to answer this.
    >
    > > What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
    > > you already have programming experience
    > > in another programming language?

    >
    > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
     
    Bjarne Stroustrup, Jan 22, 2004
    #12
  13. Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:

    > I wrote:
    >
    >>Markus Dreyer wrote:
    >>
    >>>I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >>>
    >>>Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    >>>by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo

    >>
    >>> http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/

    >>
    >>>but she replied saying that it might be outdated
    >>>since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.

    >>
    >>That's probably correct.

    >
    > It is not. AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books.
    > It is an excellent book
    > that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
    > In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
    > which does not change often rather than some proprietary system.


    Exactly how often must the ISO C++ Standard change
    before the current textbooks are "outdated"? :)

    Should I got out and buy a new copy of
    "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition"
    to replace the worn and dogeared copy that I am using now?
    Or should I wait for the "Fourth Edition"?

    I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
    would appreciate a little guidance here.
    She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
    that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
    publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
    Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
    of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerated C++"?
     
    E. Robert Tisdale, Jan 22, 2004
    #13
  14. Jonathan Turkanis wrote:
    >
    > I agree with you entierly that the librarian is wrong; Bying a book on
    > C++ from 2000 isn't like buying a Visual Studio reference from 2000.
    > However, C++ has changed (a bit) since 1998.
    >


    What are the changes?

    /David
     
    David Rasmussen, Jan 22, 2004
    #14
  15. E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
    >
    >> but she replied saying that it might be outdated
    >> since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.

    >
    > That's probably correct.
    >


    Why??

    >
    >> What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
    >> you already have programming experience
    >> in another programming language?

    >
    > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
    >


    This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
    I'd still say AC++.

    /David
     
    David Rasmussen, Jan 22, 2004
    #15
  16. E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
    >
    > In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
    > *all* of these texts are "outdated".
    >


    Where can I read about this? What new things are included?

    /David
     
    David Rasmussen, Jan 22, 2004
    #16
  17. David Rasmussen wrote:
    > E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> In view of the fact that a new ANSI/ISO C++ standard has been drafted,
    >> *all* of these texts are "outdated".
    >>

    >
    > Where can I read about this? What new things are included?
    >


    And more importantly: Does any of these changes affect the truthness of
    the stuff in AC++?

    /David
     
    David Rasmussen, Jan 22, 2004
    #17
  18. "E. Robert Tisdale" <> wrote
    > Bjarne Stroustrup wrote:


    > > AC++ is still far more up-to-date than most C++ books.
    > > It is an excellent book
    > > that is not likely to be outdated any year soon.
    > > In particular, it describes ISO Standard C++, which does not change
    > > which does not change often rather than some proprietary system.

    >
    > Exactly how often must the ISO C++ Standard change
    > before the current textbooks are "outdated"? :)


    "about every decade" :) Actually, the issue is a bit more subtle.
    Many books are up-to-date in the sense that they don't use
    pre-standard facilities. To me, the bigger issue is whether they
    actually take advantage of the developments in standard features,
    standard library, and programming techniques over the last decade or
    so when they use and teach Standard C++. Many books don't, and present
    a 1990-vintage view of C++, or even a 1987-vintage (no templates, no
    exceptions, no multiple inheritance) view.

    > Should I got out and buy a new copy of
    > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition"
    > to replace the worn and dogeared copy that I am using now?
    > Or should I wait for the "Fourth Edition"?


    Obviously, I won't discourage a replacement :) but the contents
    wouldn't be the reason. There is no need for a 4th edition for another
    while yet.

    > I'm sure that Markus Dreyer's University Librarian
    > would appreciate a little guidance here.
    > She doesn't want to buy an expensive new textbook
    > that may sit neglected on her shelf after Andrew and Barbara
    > publish their latest, more up-to-date edition.
    > Can you tell her whether or not she should expect new editions
    > of "The C++ Programming Language" or "Accelerated C++"?


    Don't expect replacements for another three or 4 years. These two
    books are still describing Standard C++ as defined and shipped, and
    still describe styles of use that are in advance of much current
    practice.

    That's fact, what's opinion is that those two books are among the very
    best available for their purposes.

    -- Bjarne Stroustrup; http://www.research.att.com/~bs
     
    Bjarne Stroustrup, Jan 22, 2004
    #18
  19. "David Rasmussen" <> skrev i en meddelelse
    news:buobr5$29b$-c.dk...
    > E. Robert Tisdale wrote:
    > >
    > >> but she replied saying that it might be outdated
    > >> since it was published in 2000, and therefore not worth buying.

    > >
    > > That's probably correct.
    > >

    >
    > Why??
    >
    > >
    > >> What is the best current book to learn C++ quickly given that
    > >> you already have programming experience
    > >> in another programming language?

    > >
    > > "The C++ Programming Language: Third Edition" by Bjarne Stroustrup.
    > >

    >
    > This is lousy advice. TC++PL isn't the best book to "learn C++ quickly".
    > I'd still say AC++.
    >
    > /David
    >


    I would not call that advice lousy. In fact, the book that taught me C++ was
    the second edition of that book - and the third edition is one of the best
    C++ books, I've read ever. I find it gives an excellent introduction to C++,
    including historical background and paradigms.
    Of course, Koenigs book also rates to be first class (based on review and
    the extracts, I've read).

    /Peter
     
    Peter Koch Larsen, Jan 22, 2004
    #19
  20. "Markus Dreyer" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...

    > I suggested our Librarian for the University Library to buy
    >
    > Accelerated C++. Practical Programming by Example.
    > by Andrew Koenig and Barbara E. Moo
    > http://www.acceleratedcpp.com/
    >
    > but she replied saying it might be outdated, since it was published in
    > 2000, and therefore not worth buying.


    It isn't out of date.

    In fact, there are some statements (those having to do with
    value-initialization) in the book that were not quite true of the C++1998
    standard, but are correct for the C++2003 standard. Barbara and I made a
    guess that the standard was going to be revised and wrote those parts of the
    book so that they referred to the revision. We also took pains to be sure
    that all of the examples in the book would work with both the C++1998 and
    C++2003 standards.
     
    Andrew Koenig, Jan 22, 2004
    #20
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