Advacnced C

N

Nick Keighley

Thank you all. However, what I wanted is a book(s) that would enable
me to have pointer/pointer function in my pocket

I don't understand the term "pointer/pointer function". Do you mean
pointer-to-function? This sort of basic stuff is well explained in
K&R.
and also support me in my drive to writing games.

there are many books devoted to writing games. I've read a few but I'm
don't know enough to recomend anything. You'd need to find a game
writing ng or a platform specific ng.
Basically, I would like to have a clear understanding of C.

K&R
 
N

Nick Keighley

Ha, another shining wit. I confess I have had a Pascal course - in 1975.
It was a week long course with two separate topics, Pascal and
databases. The two teachers were Prof N. Wirth and Mr C Hoare. You may
have heard of them.

You are spinoza(Beautiful Mind)1024 and I claim my 5 UKP Prize!
 
S

Seebs

You are spinoza(Beautiful Mind)1024 and I claim my 5 UKP Prize!

Not to contribute to the off-topic drift, but what is the origin of
this idiom? I'm pretty sure it's got to be UK television or radio.

-s
 
E

Eric Sosman

Seebs said:
Not to contribute to the off-topic drift, but what is the origin of
this idiom? I'm pretty sure it's got to be UK television or radio.

I made a guess and Googled for the combination of
the two phrases "you are" and "and I claim my", and was
thereby enlightened.
 
A

Antoninus Twink

I made a guess and Googled for the combination of the two phrases "you
are" and "and I claim my", and was thereby enlightened.

Interesting, Eric!

Thanks for sharing.

I suppose a better question is: what causes a once-popular expression to
be forgotten, then a few decades later rediscovered and find currency
once again?

Perhaps there is something intrinsically attractive about the phrase or
idea, so that once a generation has passed since it became stale as a
cliche, it naturally captures the imagination of people who never knew
it the first time.

Surely there should be a word for this phenomenon, but I can't think of
one... or many other examples, come to that.
 
N

Nick

Antoninus Twink said:
Are you mad? Check out
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/c29809cd75412536

Here's the relevant part. Let's see if Heathfield will address the
evidence this time round - but fair-minded readers will quickly make up
their minds for themselves about who exactly is the liar here.


=== begin HfC ===

I've found *some* quotes (I have no idea how complete this list is) as
evidence for my assertions. I realize Heathfield has denied the plugs in
this thread, and to be fair, we shouldn't call that lying, since these
posts were from many years ago, and nobody can be expected to remember
all the details of what he posted to a newsgroup many years ago. The
Heathfield from that time was actually a pretty likeable fellow.

Richard Heathfield
Oh dear. I can't exactly give you the Amazon link because it would be
/too/ much like spam. Suffice to say that I just checked Amazon and it
is indeed there. If you do a search for "Richard Heathfield" it finds
it
straight away. If you search using "C Unleashed" it's about five or
six
books down on the list.

I've snipped the rest, but this (to a new and niave reader) and the rest
sound like they could very well be responses to "Tell us about the book
Richard". What he was denying a couple of posts back was posting
unasked for mentions of the book.

I really don't care enough about this to go pulling the posts to see.
I'm astonished anyone does.
 
N

Nick

Antoninus Twink said:
Interesting, Eric!

Thanks for sharing.

I suppose a better question is: what causes a once-popular expression to
be forgotten, then a few decades later rediscovered and find currency
once again?

Perhaps there is something intrinsically attractive about the phrase or
idea, so that once a generation has passed since it became stale as a
cliche, it naturally captures the imagination of people who never knew
it the first time.

It's been circulating very quietly in British society for a while. I
actually remember the seaside competitions from my youth, and I'm not
that ancient. It's been in active use in a number of uk. newsgroups for
a long time, as it seems particularly appropriate for that sort of
competition. It's so common that I know of at least one group where
YAMAICM5P (where 'M' is "me") is a common abbreviation, as are versions
with a name shoehorned into the middle of the alphabet soup.
 
K

Kenny McCormack

Nick said:
I've snipped the rest, but this (to a new and niave reader) and the rest
sound like they could very well be responses to "Tell us about the book
Richard". What he was denying a couple of posts back was posting
unasked for mentions of the book.

In principle, you are right. However, as you will see, principle has
long been abandoned in CLC, and really has nothing to do with how we do
things here. (Aside: As you claim to be a newbie here, I'm taking a
tone of instruction here - instructing you on how we do things in CLC).

Since we deal in absolutes, the point is that Heathfield made a claim
like "I have never mentioned my book in CLC", which Han easily
disproved.

Further, note that anytime Jacob mentions his compiler, in any context,
for any reason, he gets flamed into next Thursday by Heathfield and his
gang. Fair is fair.

Finally, I don't think it is at all unlikely that Heathfield created a
sock puppet (or, equivalently, got a toadie to do it) to ask about his
book, so that he could preen about it. You are free to believe
otherwise, of course.
 
R

Rui Maciel

Antoninus said:
I will spell your name however I like if I feel it adds emphasis to what
I'm saying.
<snip nonsense>

For someone complaining about a signal to noise problem you seem to be very happy
posting a considerable amount of cruft to this newsgroup.


Rui Maciel
 
K

Kenny McCormack

<snip nonsense>

For someone complaining about a signal to noise problem you seem to be
very happy
posting a considerable amount of cruft to this newsgroup.

One man's meat is another man's poison.

And vice versa.
 
K

Kenny McCormack

Tim Streater said:
No such person Twinky, er, Spinny, er, Kenny, sorry, whatever your name is.

You really are a child, aren't you? It's posts like yours that make me
realize that I'm not joking when I say that the intellectual age of the
CLC regs is about 12. I think for at least some of them, that might be
their chronological age as well.

P.S. There's no such person as Mark Twain, either. So, I suppose the
books attributed to him don't exist after all. Have I got the thrust of
your argument right?
 
N

Nick

In principle, you are right. However, as you will see, principle has
long been abandoned in CLC, and really has nothing to do with how we do
things here. (Aside: As you claim to be a newbie here, I'm taking a
tone of instruction here - instructing you on how we do things in CLC).

Since we deal in absolutes, the point is that Heathfield made a claim
like "I have never mentioned my book in CLC", which Han easily
disproved.

No he didn't. He said he hadn't spammed the group with adverts for it.
I don't know whether that's an absolute or a relative, but I'm sure
you'll educate me.
Finally, I don't think it is at all unlikely that Heathfield created a
sock puppet (or, equivalently, got a toadie to do it) to ask about his
book, so that he could preen about it. You are free to believe
otherwise, of course.

As I said, I'm not going back to look, I don't care, and I'm astonished
anyone does.
 
A

Antoninus Twink

For someone complaining about a signal to noise problem you seem to be
very happy posting a considerable amount of cruft to this newsgroup.

I don't recall complaining about the signal to noise ratio. I merely
pointed out that it is very low.

Like most posters to this group, some of my contributions are helpful
technical answers (signal) and some are meta-discussions about the
general state of clc and how it could be improved (noise).

I would be surprised if my SNR was significantly worse than that of most
other posters, but unlike the likes of Heathfield and Thompson I'm at
least honest enough to acknowledge that I provide a mix of S and N, and
people are free to take it or leave it (assuming that - unlike
Heathfield and Thompson - they know how to use a killfile).
 
A

Antoninus Twink

I've snipped the rest, but this (to a new and niave reader) and the rest
sound like they could very well be responses to "Tell us about the book
Richard". What he was denying a couple of posts back was posting
unasked for mentions of the book.

Then it is unfortunate that you chose to snip before this damning quote
where he does exactly that:

Richard Heathfield:
And, if I might add one to the list? :)

C Unleashed, by Richard Heathfield, Lawrence Kirby, and (many!)
others, including a few other comp.lang.c regulars; Sams (Macmillan
Computer Publishing), 2000. ISBN 0-672-31896-2

Not a bad book, as it turns out, (although you should be most
suspicious of any chapters written by that Heathfield character).
But not a book for beginners.

Note the sickening mock coyness.
I really don't care enough about this to go pulling the posts to see.
I'm astonished anyone does.

That is reasonable enough, but you might change your mind if you spend
more time following this group in the future.

Imagine a fraudster who preys on old ladies, conning them into handing
over their life savings. Now it may be a lot of effort to assemble the
evidence and run this guy out of business, and if you had never been
robbed by him you might find it astonishing that anyone should care
enough to do it. But you'd have to agree that society as a whole is
better off if someone is prepared to put that effort in.

Now Heathfield may not be a criminal in the technical sense of that word
(at least, I don't have any evidence that he is), but he is certainly
someone who has done immense damage to this newsgroup over many years.
He has a strange charisma that attracts people to support him and act as
his foot-soldiers.

With this support, he:
* pushes an aggressive "topicality" agenda that seeks to restrict
discussions in this group, flying in the face of its founding charter
* conducts a nasty bullying campaign against those who try to oppose him
- principally Jacob Navia, who according to Heathfield "knows nothing
about C", even though Jacob has written a C compiler while Heathfield
has written nothing more substantial than some buggy and inefficient
solutions to a few of the exercises from K&R
* attempts to drive away new posters to preserve the "purity" of the
group on the spurious pretext that their posts are "off topic" and
could also be answered in other groups (usually the suggested groups
are completely dead and haven't had a technical post for years).

The situation is serious: until a small but growing group of refuseniks
began fighting to re-establish this group as an open forum for a frank
exchange among real-world C programmers, the activities I have described
(a process I called Heathfieldization) had made the group quite
moribund. And Heathfield is prepared to use any slur or accusation, no
matter how bare-faced, to try to shore up his position of authority in
this group. You have only to read the poison he posts about me to see
this action.

One of Heathfield's main weapons is a claim to the moral high ground. He
dismisses or ignores any evidence he is presented with, but it's
important nonetheless that someone is prepared to present that concrete,
factual evidence of his lies and deception so that fair-minded third
parties (like yourself) can make a fair judgment as to whether he is a
fit person to be allowed to decide the direction of clc.

This is a long answer, but I hope it helps gives some insight into why
people are prepared to spend time cataloging Heathfield's lies one by
one, with careful and unambiguous evidence.
 
A

Antoninus Twink

Whether or not there is such a person, there was certainly never such
a claim. Kenny McCormack is wrong, as usual.

Heathfield, you can put your fingers in your ears and sing "la la la" as
much as you want. It doesn't change the FACTS:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/f741607211eaa396

YOU mentioned your book in CLC. No one else mentioned it first. You are
a LIAR.

And if anyone believes Heathfield's lies that he is being misquoted,
they can read it for themselves.
 
J

jacob navia

Richard a écrit :
Yes you did. And personally I see nothing wrong with. It's a book about
C. This is a C group. Advertise it all you like.
My compiler is about C... at least it is a C compiler, but
I can't speak about it here...

Obviously I am not against heathfield speaking about his book,
I would like to speak about my compiler without being accused of
being a shrewd business man etc etc.

jacob
 
A

Antoninus Twink

Obviously I am not against heathfield speaking about his book,
I would like to speak about my compiler without being accused of
being a shrewd business man etc etc.

Exactly.

A message from Heathfield nine years ago promoting his book in this
group would be completely unremarkable, certainly nothing to hang, draw
and quarter him for, if it weren't for two things:

1) He accuses you of "spamming", when he has done exactly the same thing
himself. This is HYPOCRISY. (Of course, there is the obvious difference
that you distribute your compiler free for personal use, whereas
Heathfield stood to gain financially from every copy of his book.)

2) Even when faced with incontrovertible proof that he posted such a
message, he still says "there was certainly never such a claim". This is
LYING.

Once again:

Heathfield says:
"there was certainly never such a claim. Kenny McCormack is wrong, as
usual."

Google says:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/msg/f741607211eaa396

These are two incompatible accounts. Is Google lying? Or is Heathfield
lying?
 

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