ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real :)

Discussion in 'Python' started by John Dean, Sep 15, 2003.

  1. John Dean

    John Dean Guest

    Hi
    I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
    V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
    specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement

    I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
    http://www.totalrekall.co.uk

    For all those who have already bought the beta release if you visit your
    download basket at http://www.thekompany.com you will find your copy of BA
    V1.0.0 ready and waiting
    For those who would like to buy a copy of BA V1.0.0 you too can visit
    http://www.thekompany.com/products/blackadder

    What is Blackadder?
    -----------------------------

    BlackAdder is an application development environment that allows
    professional and hobbyist programmers alike to produce complex applications
    for the Windows and Linux platforms.

    BlackAdder brings together the Python programming language, the Ruby
    development language (Ruby is temporarily removed until the Qt bindings are
    updated to Qt3, currently in progress), the Qt graphical user interface
    (GUI) toolkit, ODBC database connectivity and an Integrated Development
    Environment (IDE) that includes an editor, a GUI designer, a debugger and an
    interactive Python interpreter. (A Ruby interpreter, debugger and ODBC
    support for Ruby are not yet available.) BlackAdder gives the programmer, in
    a single package, all they need to develop sophisticated applications.


    --
    Best Regards
    John
    John Dean, Sep 15, 2003
    #1
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  2. "John Dean" <> wrote in message news:<3f65f7e6$0$10993$>...
    > Hi
    > I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
    > V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
    > specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement
    >
    > I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
    > http://www.totalrekall.co.uk


    How about a useable trial version instead of demos.

    As long as i can't try it out for 30 days in real work (saving files)
    i will never consider buying it.
    Lothar Scholz, Sep 17, 2003
    #2
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  3. John Dean

    Ken Godee Guest

    Lothar Scholz wrote:

    > "John Dean" <> wrote in message news:<3f65f7e6$0$10993$>...
    >
    >>Hi
    >>I would like to announce, for real this time, the release of BlackAdder
    >>V1.0.0. We have just finished our weekly conference during which I was give
    >>specific instructions by Shawn Gordon to make this announcement
    >>
    >>I have uploaded the demos to http://www.rygannon.com and to
    >>http://www.totalrekall.co.uk

    >
    >
    > How about a useable trial version instead of demos.
    >
    > As long as i can't try it out for 30 days in real work (saving files)
    > i will never consider buying it.


    I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
    Here's a quote from the opening screen......

    "Thank you for trying out Black Adder.
    This, demo, version is fully functional but can only be run for a short
    period of time. Please consider buying a copy - you will be supporting
    the development of a great tool!"

    Just what you asked for I believe, "useable trial".
    Saves files,etc. and works great, nice tool.
    Ken Godee, Sep 17, 2003
    #3
  4. Ken Godee <> wrote in message news:<>...

    > I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
    > Here's a quote from the opening screen......


    and heres a quote from the web site.

    ------------
    A demonstration version of BlackAdder can be downloaded at no charge.
    The demonstration version has the following limitations.
    You cannot save any changes to Python or Ruby scripts or GUI form
    designs.

    There is no HTML documentation.

    There is no Python Qt extension module. You can download this for
    yourself from the PyQt/PyKDE homepage.

    There is no ODBC connectivity. You can download this for yourself from
    http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html.
    ----

    i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
    for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
    promising.
    Lothar Scholz, Sep 18, 2003
    #4
  5. Lothar Scholz wrote in article
    <>:

    > i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
    > for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
    > promising.


    TheKompany.com is somewhat notorious for not updating their website as they
    update the apps. They are heavily involved in embedded app development as
    well as much larger projects like BlackAdder, Kobol, and Aethera to name
    just a few. I guess sometimes updating the website falls through the
    cracks. I would go by what the person who actually tried the demo said.


    --
    Todd Stephens
    ICQ# 3150790
    "A witty saying proves nothing."
    -Voltaire
    Todd Stephens, Sep 18, 2003
    #5
  6. John Dean

    Ken Godee Guest

    Lothar Scholz wrote:
    > Ken Godee <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >
    >>I downloaded the demo and as far as I can tell it's fully fuctional
    >>Here's a quote from the opening screen......

    >
    >
    > and heres a quote from the web site.
    >
    > ------------
    > A demonstration version of BlackAdder can be downloaded at no charge.
    > The demonstration version has the following limitations.
    > You cannot save any changes to Python or Ruby scripts or GUI form
    > designs.
    >
    > There is no HTML documentation.
    >
    > There is no Python Qt extension module. You can download this for
    > yourself from the PyQt/PyKDE homepage.
    >
    > There is no ODBC connectivity. You can download this for yourself from
    > http://www.lemburg.com/files/python/eGenix-mx-Extensions.html.
    > ----
    >
    > i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
    > for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very
    > promising.


    I downloaded it all right from there site, Qt<->python converted html
    docs as well (except ODBC, on win32 I use pyscopg).

    Know matter how you look at it, This is a GREAT DEAL, just for the
    Qt/pyqt license issue's alone!
    The kompany has put together a good deal with Trolltech and riverbank
    for python users. $79 personal and $399 commercial with rights to
    distribute the run-time elements.
    I guess one could stick with straight c++ and pay trolltech $2,000 plus
    per developer instead if you wanted to :)
    (opps, for win32 platform development might want to spend another grand+
    to compile with MS VC++ compiler)
    Ken Godee, Sep 18, 2003
    #6
  7. John Dean

    John Dean Guest

    I have to agree with the assertion that theKompany.com very slow to update
    the web site, hence the reason why I have sort of taken it upon myself to do
    something about it. I work for theKompany.com and no matter how hard I push,
    nothing ever seems to get done. They all agree that improvement have to be
    made. TheKompany.com will still handle sales but my web site will handle
    promotion and marketing - www.rygannon.com
    Even though BA is not my project (I am the co-author of Rekall - a Python
    programmable cross platform database independant GUI database client - sorry
    for the shameless plug) I will do whatever I can to keep the group and my
    web site up to date. One thing I would like to do it to set up a BA Forum on
    www.rygannon.com. Freeback, suggestions, criticism (good or bad), etc is
    essential for the developement and improvement of any software project. I
    will make sure any and all posts get a mention at our weekly conference.
    Therefore, I encourage anybody and everybody who has an interest in the
    present and future development of BA (or any other of theKompany's projects)
    to register as a user at www.rygannon.com.

    --
    Best Regards
    John
    John Dean, Sep 18, 2003
    #7
  8. John Dean

    John J. Lee Guest

    Ken Godee <> writes:

    > Lothar Scholz wrote:

    [...]
    > I downloaded it all right from there site, Qt<->python converted html
    > docs as well (except ODBC, on win32 I use pyscopg).
    >
    > Know matter how you look at it, This is a GREAT DEAL, just for the
    > Qt/pyqt license issue's alone!
    > The kompany has put together a good deal with Trolltech and riverbank
    > for python users. $79 personal and $399 commercial with rights to
    > distribute the run-time elements.
    > I guess one could stick with straight c++ and pay trolltech $2,000
    > plus per developer instead if you wanted to :)
    > (opps, for win32 platform development might want to spend another
    > grand+ to compile with MS VC++ compiler)


    John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
    you don't have to pay for the TT license too? Certainly a good deal
    if so.


    John
    John J. Lee, Sep 18, 2003
    #8
  9. John Dean

    John J. Lee Guest

    "John Dean" <> writes:

    > I have to agree with the assertion that theKompany.com very slow to update
    > the web site, hence the reason why I have sort of taken it upon myself to do
    > something about it. I work for theKompany.com and no matter how hard I push,
    > nothing ever seems to get done. They all agree that improvement have to be
    > made. TheKompany.com will still handle sales but my web site will handle
    > promotion and marketing - www.rygannon.com

    [...]

    We have to give you full marks for honesty, I think. :)


    John
    John J. Lee, Sep 18, 2003
    #9
  10. John Dean

    Bob Gailer Guest

    Re: ANN: The release of BlackAdder V1.0.0 - this time for real

    At 05:48 PM 9/17/2003, Lothar Scholz wrote:
    >[snip]
    >i hope that there support for the program is better then the support
    >for their website. Everything in the last weeks doesn't look very promising.


    I sat yesterday with a friend going thru the latest version's tutorial.
    theKompany did not effectively test the tutorial. (Meaning act as a total
    newcomer and follow the instructions literally.) The number of errors is
    high (what IS an acceptable error count?). We had to guess, backtrack,
    experiment to get through. This raises the cost of ownership.

    The UI did not always perform as one would expect or desire.

    The editor leaves a lot to be desired (auto-indent, parentheses matching,
    cursor at end of line after click, pane splitter, ...). If any of these
    features are present, the tutorial gave no clue as to how to access them. I
    had hoped to move from PythonWin to BA, but the PythonWin editor is so
    superior I guess I'll use the BA editor just for Qt-related code.

    The main.py module generator created code that threw an exception.

    I wonder what process theKompany uses for proofing documentation. The
    process is obviously not effective.

    I opened a bug on the BA Mantis system to report the existence of some
    non-Python code in the PyQt Docs. The response was, in effect, "where do
    you see this", and the bug was closed so I could not even answer the
    question. I'd like to think that their document review process would catch
    these problems.

    I wonder whether they have any kind of usability lab where their designers
    get to sit with some of us developers and see what needs to be changed in
    the UI.

    I am confused when they ask for feedback and then do not respond to it in
    an effective manner.

    Bob Gailer

    303 442 2625


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release Date: 8/1/2003
    Bob Gailer, Sep 18, 2003
    #10
  11. Since you mention this, on my windows dual-monitor setup, The BlackAdder
    splash screen and tips box open in the middle, spanning the gap between
    displays...

    Cheers,
    Simon.

    > Freeback,
    > suggestions, criticism (good or bad), etc is essential for the
    > developement and improvement of any software project. I will make sure
    Simon Bayling, Sep 18, 2003
    #11
  12. (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<>...

    > Ken Godee <> writes:
    >
    > John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
    > you don't have to pay for the TT license too? Certainly a good deal
    > if so.
    >


    Yes, please answer about this topic. This is one thing that would be
    great but there is also no clue on the website about it.
    Lothar Scholz, Sep 18, 2003
    #12
  13. John Dean

    John Dean Guest

    Hi
    You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
    you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
    Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
    so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
    problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
    solution

    --
    Best Regards
    John
    John Dean, Sep 18, 2003
    #13
  14. John Dean

    John Dean Guest

    Thank you John
    I don't see any point in making lame excuses, since most people are smart
    enough to see through rubbish. After all, we are only human and we should
    honest enough to admit to our failings

    --
    Best Regards
    John
    John Dean, Sep 18, 2003
    #14
  15. John Dean

    yaipa h. Guest

    You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor,
    so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)
    Someone has to run the regressions on a dual headed system
    and you get our vote.

    On a more serious note, you will find that you use the office printer
    a whole lot less on a dual head machine.

    --Alan

    "John Dean" <> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$>...
    > Hi
    > You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
    > you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
    > Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
    > so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
    > problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
    > solution
    yaipa h., Sep 19, 2003
    #15
  16. John Dean

    Ken Godee Guest

    yaipa h. wrote:
    > You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor,
    > so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)
    > Someone has to run the regressions on a dual headed system
    > and you get our vote.
    >
    > On a more serious note, you will find that you use the office printer
    > a whole lot less on a dual head machine.
    >
    > --Alan
    >
    > "John Dean" <> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$>...
    >
    >>Hi
    >>You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
    >>you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
    >>Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
    >>so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
    >>problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
    >>solution


    boy, I didn't want to keep jumping in on this Black Adder thing but.....

    I also run dual monitors and Black Adder / Qt designer / pyqt apps do
    not have any problems splitting the screens.

    I'm only testing the Black Adder demo version on win32(98se) though,
    Nvidia (without thier goofy utilities, that screw up everything)
    I forget what dual head card/reference design that's in that machine
    but it's an under $100.00 card.
    Ken Godee, Sep 19, 2003
    #16
  17. "John Dean" <> wrote in message news:<3f6a2bd3$0$10998$>...
    > Hi
    > You may or may know that BA is based on the Qt GUI Application Toolkit, so
    > you problem with the duel monitor set up is something I shall take up with
    > Trolltech. Unfortunately, none of use at theKompany run a duel monitor setup
    > so it is something that we are not aware of. Thank you for bring up this
    > problem and I will get back to you with a solution or our proposal for a
    > solution


    Today a dual monitor should be a normal environment for developers. I
    hope you have at least a dual CPU system to test if BA works well on
    multi processor machines (which you can't test on single CPU systems
    well enough).
    Lothar Scholz, Sep 19, 2003
    #17
  18. John Dean

    John Dean Guest

    Hi John
    Ken is absolutely correct.

    --
    Best Regards
    John
    John Dean, Sep 19, 2003
    #18
  19. John Dean

    Ray Smith Guest

    (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<>...
    > (John J. Lee) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    > > Ken Godee <> writes:
    > >
    > > John, is Ken right that buying the commercial BlackAdder license means
    > > you don't have to pay for the TT license too? Certainly a good deal
    > > if so.
    > >

    >
    > Yes, please answer about this topic. This is one thing that would be
    > great but there is also no clue on the website about it.


    The web page mentions a number of times that nothing else is required,

    Quotes from the BA web page:

    "BlackAdder gives the programmer, in a single package, all they need
    to develop sophisticated applications."

    " A complete cross-platform Integrated Development Environment for
    developing GUI applications in Python and Ruby. You don't need
    anything else."

    "Personal and Business Editions. The Business Edition includes
    optional support and the rights to distribute the run-time elements
    with your application at no extra charge."

    "Detailed Features...
    The Professional version of the Qt GUI toolkit (v3.x) including:
    * the Canvas module
    * the Table module
    * the Database module
    * Qsocket, QserverSocket, and Qhost Address classes from the
    Network module."


    "Business Edition Features...
    # Includes the rights to distribute the run-time elements (except
    mxODBC) with your application. "


    "Requirements
    BlackAdder requires Python version 2.2.x. "


    Although it doesn't explicity say .. "You are NOT required to buy QT
    or PyQT
    licenses..." it says a number of times .. that nothing else is
    required to make
    and distribute full blown applications, and it also lists the only
    requirement
    as Python 2.2.x. So with all that info one must "assume" QT and PyQT
    licenses
    are included with BA!!!

    Regards,

    Ray Smith
    Ray Smith, Sep 19, 2003
    #19
  20. I see your smiley, but still;

    Is there a bug so trivial that you would rather leave it than fix it?

    > You have our permission to go out an buy that second monitor,
    > so that this DREADFUL problem never happens again. ;^)


    - Simon.
    Simon Bayling, Sep 20, 2003
    #20
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