[arguably OT] Keyboards

[Roedy Green]

You elided the important part of my comment: that "that smart thing" is to put
the mouse on the left.

I personally don't see that as practical, though I could see as
excellent for lefties or ambidextrous people. I have enough problem as
it is with fine control of the mouse with my right hand. With the left
it is hopeless, in particular trying to select several letters out of
a word with that fine vertical cursor. I think though I am unusually
clumsy.

The other problem is some mice are designed to be use only left or
only right handed. You might have to get new mouse.

My main problem with fine control of mice is getting the coefficient
of friction down. Even with frequent cleanings of feed and pad and
replacing feet, the mouse motion is never as smooth as I'd like for
fine control.

 

[Roedy Green]

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

What do you use it for?

 

[Roedy Green]

Maybe a keyboard should just come as a collection of 105 lego bricks with
keys on top, and a baseboard. Some kind of personal-area network could
collect the keypresses. Keys could use the energy of keystrokes to power
themselves. Everyone would be able to adjust their keyboard on a whim, and
everyone would have exactly the layout they wanted.

I proposed that idea a couple of decades ago, as vision of the future.
However, by now with a throw-away display in every pregnancy test
strip, it might be possible to put a display on every key, and have
the legends change as you type -- so for example you could flip to
accents mode, or Greek or Cyrillic -- letting you type the complete
Unicode set with visual feedback, and of course fully customisable
layouts.

You could also have work in learn-to-type mode where legends were
hidden, with occasional peeks.

It might come with half a dozen spare keys, so this might be a 20 year
high end investment.

 

[Roedy Green]

It is silly to make pronouncements about "the numpad not being that
useful" since that depends on the user

Exactly. All I said was CONSIDER a keyboard without such a keypad if
you don't use it.

You are like some nasty lawyer trying to twist the words of others.
**** OFF.

 

[Roedy Green]

These things have a 48x48 colour display on each key. $2400 US. User
programmable. You can even do animations on the keys. Requires two
USB ports. No Linux support.

 

[Eric Sosman]

Could you explain that reference? I presume it means
"discarded/destroyed".

At a guess, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101>. GIYF.

 

[Jim Janney]

I proposed that idea a couple of decades ago, as vision of the future.
However, by now with a throw-away display in every pregnancy test
strip, it might be possible to put a display on every key, and have
the legends change as you type -- so for example you could flip to
accents mode, or Greek or Cyrillic -- letting you type the complete
Unicode set with visual feedback, and of course fully customisable
layouts.

You could also have work in learn-to-type mode where legends were
hidden, with occasional peeks.

It might come with half a dozen spare keys, so this might be a 20 year
high end investment.

Keyboard labels are for wimps:

http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard_model_s_ultimate.php

 

[Lew]

Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

Exactly.  All I said was CONSIDER a keyboard without such a keypad if
you don't use it.

[expletive deleted]

You said to consider it because the numpad isn't that useful. I
joined in the OPEN DISCUSSION with my own take. That is my right. I
will continue to exercise that right no matter how much you think
cursing at me will intimidate or browbeat me into submission to your
will.

I am seriously disappointed at your descent into trollishness on this
one. Most of the time I respect your contribution, but this wasn't
one of those times. Show some couth.

 

[Stefan Ram]

At a guess, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101>. GIYF.

Or, with a Java reference:

http://gbracha.blogspot.com/2006/10/why-is-this-blog-named-this-way.html

 

[Lew]

Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

What do you use it for?

Typing numbers.

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

Typing numbers.

Up to two digits: upper row
Three subsequent digits or more: numpad

That's how I usually do it, anyway.

PS: my mouse is on the right side, for my left hand
sucks at positioning the mouse, and I'd mix up the
buttons, too (no matter if they'd be reassigned or
not).

 

[Arved Sandstrom]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

Useful for some, useless for others. For example, on Windows keyboards I
never use any key off to the right of the main block. Not the numpad,
not the arrow keys, not the Insert-Home-Delete-etc block, nothing. So
when I use my primary computer - a Mac laptop - which has none of that
off to the right anyway, I notice no real change.

I'm not saying get rid of those extra keys, by any means. I'm simply
pointing out that they are not very useful as a general rule, they are
useful for some people, irrelevant for others. Me, I'm not an accountant
so I couldn't care less about the numpad.

AHS

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

What do you use it for?

What symbols are on those keys?

It seems as a good guess that he use the keys because he want
those symbols.

Arne

 

[Lew]

Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

What symbols are on those keys?

It seems as a good guess that he use the keys because he want
those symbols.

Arne, you are a genius! You have unlocked the puzzle that has baffled the
greatest minds in our field! That's exactly what I use it for! Amazing!

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Exactly. All I said was CONSIDER a keyboard without such a keypad if
you don't use it.

Actually you wrote:

#Consider getting a keyboard WITHOUT a numeric keypad. You probably
#never use it.

No if at all.

You are like some nasty lawyer trying to twist the words of others.

If he were a nasty lawyer and this were a trial then you would
be on the way to jail for lying in court about what you said.

But then this is not a court ....

> **** OFF.

I am pretty sure (and pretty happy with) that Lew will no go away.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Huh? I thought any Windows keyboard automatically worked on Linux.
Does it need a special driver?

If it is a standard keyboard: yes.

If it has special keys that are not just sending sequences of
existing keys, then something is necessary to handle those keys.

Arne

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.
What do you use it for?

What symbols are on those keys? [...]

Arne, you are a genius! [...] That's exactly what I use it for! Amazing!

There are of course also other uses than those: E.g. when I press Win+3/PgDn
my windowmanager will slam the currently active window into the lower right
corner. (and with Win+5 center it) These uses do not obviously follow from
the *symbols* on the keys as much as from their position.

I'm of course not disputing Arne's "likeliest guess"

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

If it is a standard keyboard: yes.

"yes", as in: if it is a standard keyboard, then it works with linux...

If it has special keys that are not just sending sequences of
existing keys, then something is necessary to handle those keys.

Typical extra keys (open browser, open calc, forward/back, Home,
Mail, Vol-Up/Down, Play,Pause,...) work with Linux. They're usually
pre-assigned to reasonable application-launchers, and can be
re-assigned to whatyouwant by means of some dialog). So, this
"something" is already present in all the common linux-desktops.

Those mega-configurable keyboards had better support some default-
profile resembling a standard keyboard, or will give users a hard
time during bios-setup. Beyond that, there may be extra features
that may require (at least for the time until they're successfully
reverse-engineered) some special windows-driver.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.
What do you use it for?
What symbols are on those keys? [...]

Arne, you are a genius! [...] That's exactly what I use it for! Amazing!

There are of course also other uses than those: E.g. when I press Win+3/PgDn
my windowmanager will slam the currently active window into the lower right
corner. (and with Win+5 center it) These uses do not obviously follow from
the *symbols* on the keys as much as from their position.

That type of usage of the numeric keypad was very common in
the pre-mouse days.

I think it is rare today.

Arne

 

[Andreas Leitgeb]

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.
What do you use it for?
What symbols are on those keys? [...]
Arne, you are a genius! [...] That's exactly what I use it for! Amazing!

There are of course also other uses than those: E.g. when I press Win+3/PgDn
my windowmanager will slam the currently active window into the lower right
corner. (and with Win+5 center it) These uses do not obviously follow from
the *symbols* on the keys as much as from their position.

That type of usage of the numeric keypad was very common in
the pre-mouse days.
I think it is rare today.

I do not refute the "rareness"-aspect, but it's not really from old days,
either, as there weren't "Win"-Keys back then

In those pre-mouse days, the number block doubled as the one and only
cursor key block. Back then I couldn't imagine, that cursor-keys
arranged as .:. would be so much easier to use...