Can't Nest Tables in Excel

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Adrienne, Feb 25, 2005.

  1. Adrienne

    Adrienne Guest

    Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:

    You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere else?

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    Adrienne, Feb 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. Adrienne

    Els Guest

    Adrienne wrote:

    > Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to
    > position elements:
    >
    > You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest
    > tables anywhere else?


    Not trying to advocate the use of layout tables, but:

    I can't get piccalilly on my burger at MacDonalds, so why would
    I put piccalilly on my burger in my own kitchen?

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, Feb 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. Adrienne

    Richard Guest

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:13:58 GMT Adrienne wrote:

    > Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:


    > You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere
    > else?


    <table>
    <table>
    </table></table>

    Is invalid.
    <table>
    <tbody>
    </tbody></table>

    is valid.
    Richard, Feb 25, 2005
    #3
  4. Adrienne

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:13:58 GMT Adrienne wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:

    >
    >
    >>You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere
    >>else?

    >
    >
    > <table>
    > <table>
    > </table></table>
    >
    > Is invalid.
    > <table>
    > <tbody>
    > </tbody></table>
    >
    > is valid.
    >
    >


    What does that even mean.
    SpaceGirl, Feb 25, 2005
    #4
  5. Adrienne

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Richard" <Anonymous@127.001> wrote:
    >On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:13:58 GMT Adrienne wrote:
    >
    >> Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:

    >
    >> You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere
    >> else?


    Are you sure? I thought you could embed an Office object into a cell
    of an Excel spreadsheet, so why can't that Office object be another
    Excel spreadsheet? Not much of an Office expert so maybe I'm wrong.

    Anyway considering that Excel and HTML have different purposes (though
    both are widely used for all sorts of strange and bizarre additional
    purposes) the analogy is quite weak.


    ><table>
    > <table>
    ></table></table>
    >
    >Is invalid.


    Correct. You're missing the required sub-element of table.

    ><table>
    > <tbody>
    ></tbody></table>
    >
    >is valid.


    Incorrect. You're missing the required sub-element of tbody.

    However, the first one has two tables and the second one has one
    table. So you're not even comparing like with like.

    <table><tbody><tr><td>
    <table><tbody><tr><td>
    </td></tr></tbody></table>
    </td></tr></tbody></table>

    is valid and (give or take the totally optional <tbody> tags) is what
    is being discussed here.

    The issue is whether one can think of tabular data that can contain
    another table of data as the content of one of the data cells. I can
    think of a few examples but most of them would be handled better by
    writing the main table differently instead.

    The authors of HTML either didn't consider this issue or did consider
    it and decided that it was conceivable that a data table could contain
    another data table, hence nested tables are allowed in HTML, which
    sadly is one of the things that made tables so damn easy to abuse for
    layout purposes.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 25, 2005
    #5
  6. Adrienne

    Steve Pugh Guest

    SpaceGirl <> wrote:
    >Richard wrote:
    >> <table>
    >> <table>
    >> </table></table>
    >>
    >> Is invalid.
    >> <table>
    >> <tbody>
    >> </tbody></table>
    >>
    >> is valid.

    >
    >What does that even mean.


    The usual - that Richard hasn't got a clue. Based on past posts, he
    thinks that <tbody> is some sort of table-within-a-table construction.
    See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.html/msg/84cd93e3f8cd78d9

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 25, 2005
    #6
  7. Adrienne

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Steve Pugh wrote:
    > SpaceGirl <> wrote:
    >
    >>Richard wrote:
    >>
    >>><table>
    >>> <table>
    >>></table></table>
    >>>
    >>>Is invalid.
    >>><table>
    >>> <tbody>
    >>></tbody></table>
    >>>
    >>>is valid.

    >>
    >>What does that even mean.

    >
    >
    > The usual - that Richard hasn't got a clue. Based on past posts, he
    > thinks that <tbody> is some sort of table-within-a-table construction.
    > See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.html/msg/84cd93e3f8cd78d9
    >
    > Steve
    >


    Yeah. He really needs to learn how to write HTML before giving advice.
    That last comment of his was either; totally irrelevant or utterly
    wrong. Not sure which.
    SpaceGirl, Feb 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Adrienne

    Fat Sam Guest

    Adrienne wrote:
    > Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:
    >
    > You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere else?
    >

    Your argument fails to mention one important thing....Excel documents
    and HTML documents are very different beasts....
    By your reasoning, you might also say that you can't run a steam train
    on petrol, so why would you use it to fuel any other vehicle?

    --
    www.fixaphoto.co.uk
    for photographic restorations
    Fat Sam, Feb 25, 2005
    #8
  9. Adrienne

    Steve Pugh Guest

    SpaceGirl <> wrote:
    >Steve Pugh wrote:
    >> The usual - that Richard hasn't got a clue.
    >>

    >That last comment of his was either; totally irrelevant or utterly
    >wrong. Not sure which.


    Why rule out both?

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 25, 2005
    #9
  10. Adrienne

    Amy Guest

    "Adrienne" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns960820E2C3AA6arbpenyahoocom@207.115.63.158...
    > Here is my answer to people who use nested tables to position elements:
    >
    > You can't nest tables in Excel, so why would you nest tables anywhere
    > else?
    >


    I think I know what you mean. Excel is essentially a huge, 65536 by 282
    cell table.
    With any layout, one could make these cells into any sizes they needed.
    The major problem with using a single table is that you would end up with
    rowspans and colspans of epic proportions.

    I learned positioning throught embedded tables and 1 by 1 px transparent
    spacer gifs. But, I am trying
    really hard to be the css layout type. Wish me luck.
    Amy, Feb 25, 2005
    #10
  11. Adrienne

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    SpaceGirl wrote:

    >> The usual - that Richard hasn't got a clue. Based on past posts, he
    >> thinks that <tbody> is some sort of table-within-a-table construction.
    >> See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.html/msg/84cd93e3f8cd78d9
    >>
    >> Steve
    >>

    >
    > Yeah. He really needs to learn how to write HTML before giving advice.
    > That last comment of his was either; totally irrelevant or utterly
    > wrong. Not sure which.


    Both?

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Coordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
    Uncle Pirate, Feb 25, 2005
    #11
  12. Adrienne

    Andy Dingley Guest

    It was somewhere outside Barstow when Steve Pugh <>
    wrote:

    >Are you sure? I thought you could embed an Office object into a cell
    >of an Excel spreadsheet, so why can't that Office object be another
    >Excel spreadsheet? Not much of an Office expert so maybe I'm wrong.


    As a general rule, Office is coded in such a way that it won't let you
    embed a <foo> in a <foo>, but you can embed a <foo> in a <bar>, then
    in-turn embed that in a <foo>.

    Excel is a bit lumpy as Office apps go, so it doesn't support the
    in-place editing that others do. However it still allows you to embed.
    Andy Dingley, Feb 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Adrienne

    Steve Pugh Guest

    Andy Dingley <> wrote:
    >It was somewhere outside Barstow when Steve Pugh <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Are you sure? I thought you could embed an Office object into a cell
    >>of an Excel spreadsheet, so why can't that Office object be another
    >>Excel spreadsheet? Not much of an Office expert so maybe I'm wrong.

    >
    >As a general rule, Office is coded in such a way that it won't let you
    >embed a <foo> in a <foo>, but you can embed a <foo> in a <bar>, then
    >in-turn embed that in a <foo>.


    Does that mean that when used to make HTML pages Office doesn't
    support <iframe>? Would be just about the only thing it did right. ;-)

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
    Steve Pugh, Feb 25, 2005
    #13
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