Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support(Opera wins)

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Bob, May 17, 2006.

  1. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Using this page

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)

    I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5

    Here they are:

    DOM 1 supports how many

    IE5 264 (15 more are broken)
    IE6 293 (15 more are broken)
    Opera 7 337 (1 is broken)
    Opera 8 337 (1 is broken)
    Opera 9 370 (1 is broken)
    Firefox 367

    Opera 9 barely edges out Firefox for DOM 1 support, but it is basically
    a tie. IE is quite a bit behind. Even Opera 7 bests it considerably.


    DOM 2 supports how many

    IE5 43 (2 more are broken)
    IE6 44 (2 more are broken)
    Opera 7 70
    Opera 8 116
    Opera 9 154
    Firefox 176

    Firefox definitely wins for DOM 2 support, but Opera 9 also does very
    well. IE6 looks like a disaster for DOM 2. Even the older Opera 7 does
    much better than IE. Even more shameful is that IE barely improved from
    v5 to v6


    DOM 3 supports how many

    IE5 0
    IE6 0
    Opera 7 1
    Opera 8 7
    Opera 9 54
    Firefox 19

    Although DOM 3 is very new and not supported well by browsers, Opera 9
    does dramatically better than any other browser in implementing it. IE,
    shamefully, has not implemented one spec, and has not improved again
    between v5 and v6. Firefox does a decent job of implementing DOM 3,
    considering that no browser implements much of it.


    Totals

    IE5 307
    IE6 337
    Opera 7 408
    Opera 8 460
    Opera 9 578
    Firefox 562


    For the totals, Opera 9 has the best DOM support of any major browser!
    Yaaaay! Firefox is quite close though. IE is horribly behind and has
    barely improved from one old version to the next. Even Opera 7 is much
    better than IE6. The only conclusion is that when it comes to DOM, IE is
    an incredibly broken browser. The fact that 85% of the net is using this
    stupid, broken browser is just disgusting.


    Methods: I counted them by hand, so there may be some errors. Feel free
    to recheck. I think my totals are pretty good though.
    Bob, May 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Bob

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Bob wrote:

    > DOM 3 supports how many
    >
    > IE5 0
    > IE6 0
    > Opera 7 1
    > Opera 8 7
    > Opera 9 54
    > Firefox 19


    Opera has recently been doing a lot of work improving their DOM
    implementation to help support their new "widgets" feature.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, May 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS)support (Opera wins)

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    >
    >> DOM 3 supports how many
    >>
    >> IE5 0
    >> IE6 0
    >> Opera 7 1
    >> Opera 8 7
    >> Opera 9 54
    >> Firefox 19

    >
    > Opera has recently been doing a lot of work improving their DOM
    > implementation to help support their new "widgets" feature.


    What's their "widgets" feature?
    Bob, May 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    __/ [ Bob ] on Wednesday 17 May 2006 11:27 \__

    > Toby Inkster wrote:
    >> Bob wrote:
    >>
    >>> DOM 3 supports how many
    >>>
    >>> IE5 0
    >>> IE6 0
    >>> Opera 7 1
    >>> Opera 8 7
    >>> Opera 9 54
    >>> Firefox 19

    >>
    >> Opera has recently been doing a lot of work improving their DOM
    >> implementation to help support their new "widgets" feature.



    This comes from the biggest Opera fan whom I know.


    > What's their "widgets" feature?



    Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a brilliant new
    feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no compelling reason to ditch
    Firefox with its plug-ins.

    Best wishes,

    Roy

    --
    Opera - They think of everything!
    http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    11:25am up 19 days 18:22, 8 users, load average: 0.23, 0.60, 0.38
    http://iuron.com - next generation of search paradigms
    Roy Schestowitz, May 17, 2006
    #4
  5. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > This comes from the biggest Opera fan whom I know.
    > > What's their "widgets" feature?

    > Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a brilliant new
    > feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no compelling reason to ditch
    > Firefox with its plug-ins.


    What you couldn't just say what this brilliant new feature is? I
    haven't the time (or the bother) to go to their site and read through
    their new features list. Guess I will just have to stick with FF.
    Travis Newbury, May 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    __/ [ Travis Newbury ] on Wednesday 17 May 2006 12:00 \__

    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> This comes from the biggest Opera fan whom I know.
    >> > What's their "widgets" feature?

    >> Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a brilliant
    >> new feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no compelling reason to
    >> ditch Firefox with its plug-ins.

    >
    > What you couldn't just say what this brilliant new feature is? I
    > haven't the time (or the bother) to go to their site and read through
    > their new features list. Guess I will just have to stick with FF.


    The official:

    http://my.opera.com/community/dev/widgets/

    The 'meat' (screenshots):


    http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinocho/111771754/

    Best wishes,

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz | $> wget -r -erobots=off http://www.*
    http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    12:05pm up 19 days 19:02, 8 users, load average: 0.54, 0.54, 0.43
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
    Roy Schestowitz, May 17, 2006
    #6
  7. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    > >> Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a brilliant
    > >> new feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no compelling reason to
    > >> ditch Firefox with its plug-ins.

    > > What you couldn't just say what this brilliant new feature is? I
    > > haven't the time (or the bother) to go to their site and read through
    > > their new features list. Guess I will just have to stick with FF.

    > The official:
    > http://my.opera.com/community/dev/widgets/
    > The 'meat' (screenshots):
    > http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinocho/111771754/
    > Best wishes,



    That's what I like. Service with a smile.

    thanks
    Travis Newbury, May 17, 2006
    #7
  8. Travis Newbury, May 17, 2006
    #8
  9. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    __/ [ Travis Newbury ] on Wednesday 17 May 2006 12:16 \__

    > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
    >> >> Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a
    >> >> brilliant new feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no
    >> >> compelling reason to ditch Firefox with its plug-ins.
    >> > What you couldn't just say what this brilliant new feature is? I
    >> > haven't the time (or the bother) to go to their site and read through
    >> > their new features list. Guess I will just have to stick with FF.

    >> The official:
    >> http://my.opera.com/community/dev/widgets/
    >> The 'meat' (screenshots):
    >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinocho/111771754/
    >> Best wishes,

    >
    > That's what I like. Service with a smile.
    >
    > thanks



    If you like toys, that is. They adopt the same name and concepts as that
    which you find in OS X, unlike the upcoming "Gadgets" in Windows Vista. They
    are merely distractions. Linux has had these for _ages_ (probably going back
    to the previous decade). Unlike clocks, some of them have actual use, e.g.
    system monitoring. At Web browser-level, I doubt there is much you can add.
    Firefox extensions are far less obtrusive and they take less resources and
    space. If you want to run over 20 of these simultaneously, flash must go.


    __/ [ Travis Newbury ] added on Wednesday 17 May 2006 12:20 \__

    > Looking mighty like a new form of popup window to me.... (the abuse
    > factor is there)
    >
    > This is something that would make me stay away from opera.



    Exactly my sentiments. Nice looking, but only if you go for flash rather than
    substance. Mac factor = less work | more demoware. After a few hours or
    days, you will get past that stage of initial excitement and try to find out
    how to rule the beast, rather than have the Beast^tm taking over your screen
    space/CPU.

    Best wishes,

    Roy

    --
    Roy S. Schestowitz | "Lions are like hippie tigers"
    http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux ¦ PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
    12:20pm up 19 days 19:17, 8 users, load average: 0.50, 0.69, 0.64
    http://iuron.com - Open Source knowledge engine project
    Roy Schestowitz, May 17, 2006
    #9
  10. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Bob
    <>
    wrote
    on Tue, 16 May 2006 23:49:21 -0700
    <>:
    > Using this page
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    >
    > I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    > (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    > 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5


    [comparisons snipped for brevity]

    Interesting stuff...more grist for the mill, of course. This might be
    good for a short WebPage.

    Do you have anything comparable for CSS1, CSS2, CSS2.1, and (if it's
    standard by now) CSS3 support?

    Also, is there something for Javascript?

    --
    #191,
    Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.
    The Ghost In The Machine, May 17, 2006
    #10
  11. Bob

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Roy Schestowitz wrote:

    > Have a look at the announcement in their latest release. It's a
    > brilliant new feature, which to me at least, _still_ gives no compelling
    > reason to ditch Firefox with its plug-ins.


    I can't say I think it's that useful but the latest betas are only about
    100 kb bigger than Opera 8.5x.

    However, it has tonnes of other great things that make it worth using, and
    actually seems a little faster now, so I won't be put off by one useless
    feature -- after all, just because it's there, doesn't mean I have to use
    it.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, May 17, 2006
    #11
  12. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Comparisons of IE Mac, Safari, Opera, Mozilla and Icab on CSS

    The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
    > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Bob
    > <>
    > wrote
    > on Tue, 16 May 2006 23:49:21 -0700
    > <>:
    >> Using this page
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    >>
    >> I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    >> (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    >> 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5

    >
    > [comparisons snipped for brevity]
    >
    > Interesting stuff...more grist for the mill, of course. This might be
    > good for a short WebPage.
    >
    > Do you have anything comparable for CSS1, CSS2, CSS2.1, and (if it's
    > standard by now) CSS3 support?


    Yes, I have something for CSS2, but I am not sure how comprehensive it
    is. Here it is. A bit offtopic, cuz I was looking for a good Mac browser
    for my brother:

    http://macedition.com/cb/resources/macbrowsercsssupport.html

    CSS2 implementation via October 2004 (first is worst, last is best):

    Partial:

    Safari 1.0 13
    Mac IE 5.2 6
    Mozilla 1.3 6
    Icab 3.0 3
    Opera 7 2


    Quirky:

    Safari 1.0 7
    Mozilla 1.3 6
    Mac IE 5.2 5
    Icab 3.0 4
    Opera 7 1


    Buggy:

    Safari 1.0 2
    Mozilla 1.3 2
    Icab 3.0 1


    Not Implemented:

    Mac IE 5.2 19
    Safari 1.0 13
    Mozilla 1.3 6
    Opera 7 6
    Icab 3.0 4

    Totals (buggy, quirky, partial or not implemented):

    Safari 1.0 37
    Mac IE 5.2 30
    Mozilla 1.3 14
    Icab 3.0 12
    Opera 7 9


    Analysis: This analysis was outdated and is taken from a site about Mac
    browsers dated October 2004. I am not sure to what extent the full spec
    was being tested. Nevertheless, the results are still interesting. Opera
    wins once again (though an older version, v7, was tested), then Icab 3.0
    beta, which reportedly has a superb CSS implementation, then an older
    Mozilla 1.3, then the now-discontinued by still widely-used Mac IE, then
    the outdated Safari 1.0, which is also still widely used. Mac users are
    urged to upgrade to Opera, Icab or Firefox/Mozilla and leave the older
    Mac IE and older Safari behind. For Linux users, Opera and Moz once
    again shine.

    Method: Counting by hand, which may have caused errors.
    >
    > Also, is there something for Javascript?


    You mean ECMAscript, right? That's usually what it is called in the
    tests...DOM is basically CSS + Javascript, but I think you are looking
    for pure Javascript.
    Bob, May 18, 2006
    #12
  13. Bob

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE Mac, Safari, Opera, Mozilla and Icab on CSS

    Bob wrote:

    > DOM is basically CSS + Javascript


    Not really -- these three concepts are fairly independent -- as
    independent as, say, HTML and CSS[1][2]. There are browsers that
    support a DOM but not CSS[3]; and browsers that allow you to
    manipulate the DOM without using Javascript[4].

    You may be thinking of "DHTML" which is an old buzz-word for
    HTML + DOM + CSS + Javascript.

    The DOM is basically a tree structure that the browser creates in
    memory when it parses an HTML document[5], and (if the browser
    supports CSS) will also have styling information attached as "leaves".

    This tree (including all its branches and leaves) can then be
    inspected and manipulated using Javascript, or any other scripting
    language that the host browser offers[6]. As the tree is manipulated
    the browser updates the display of the page to match, allowing
    for DOM manipulation to produce dynamic effects on-page.

    ____
    1. CSS can be used to style non-HTML documents -- e.g. RSS.
    2. HTML can be styled using non-CSS style sheets -- e.g. JSSS
    (Netscape 4.x)
    3. Netscape 2 and 3.
    4. Internet Explorer 4+ on Windows, with VBScript.
    5. Any structured document can have a DOM, but HTML and XML are
    most common.
    6. As per #4, VBScript is supported in some browsers. Mozilla's
    roadmap includes the ability to "plug in" scripting modules allowing
    DOM scripting in Perl, Python, etc:
    http://www.mozilla.org/scriptable/agnostic.html

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, May 18, 2006
    #13
  14. Bob

    NoNamer Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Bob wrote:
    > Using this page
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    >
    > I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    > (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    > 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5
    >
    > Here they are:
    >
    > DOM 1 supports how many
    >
    > IE5 264 (15 more are broken)
    > IE6 293 (15 more are broken)
    > Opera 7 337 (1 is broken)
    > Opera 8 337 (1 is broken)
    > Opera 9 370 (1 is broken)
    > Firefox 367
    >
    > Opera 9 barely edges out Firefox for DOM 1 support, but it is basically
    > a tie. IE is quite a bit behind. Even Opera 7 bests it considerably.
    >
    >
    > DOM 2 supports how many
    >
    > IE5 43 (2 more are broken)
    > IE6 44 (2 more are broken)
    > Opera 7 70
    > Opera 8 116
    > Opera 9 154
    > Firefox 176
    >
    > Firefox definitely wins for DOM 2 support, but Opera 9 also does very
    > well. IE6 looks like a disaster for DOM 2. Even the older Opera 7 does
    > much better than IE. Even more shameful is that IE barely improved from
    > v5 to v6
    >
    >
    > DOM 3 supports how many
    >
    > IE5 0
    > IE6 0
    > Opera 7 1
    > Opera 8 7
    > Opera 9 54
    > Firefox 19
    >
    > Although DOM 3 is very new and not supported well by browsers, Opera 9
    > does dramatically better than any other browser in implementing it. IE,
    > shamefully, has not implemented one spec, and has not improved again
    > between v5 and v6. Firefox does a decent job of implementing DOM 3,
    > considering that no browser implements much of it.
    >
    >
    > Totals
    >
    > IE5 307
    > IE6 337
    > Opera 7 408
    > Opera 8 460
    > Opera 9 578
    > Firefox 562
    >
    >
    > For the totals, Opera 9 has the best DOM support of any major browser!
    > Yaaaay! Firefox is quite close though. IE is horribly behind and has
    > barely improved from one old version to the next. Even Opera 7 is much
    > better than IE6. The only conclusion is that when it comes to DOM, IE is
    > an incredibly broken browser. The fact that 85% of the net is using this
    > stupid, broken browser is just disgusting.
    >
    >
    > Methods: I counted them by hand, so there may be some errors. Feel free
    > to recheck. I think my totals are pretty good though.


    I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?

    I've been using it for about 2 weeks now and really like it. The zoom
    feature is awesome.
    NoNamer, May 18, 2006
    #14
  15. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE Mac, Safari, Opera, Mozilla and Icab on CSS

    Toby Inkster wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    >
    >> DOM is basically CSS + Javascript

    >
    > Not really -- these three concepts are fairly independent -- as
    > independent as, say, HTML and CSS[1][2]. There are browsers that
    > support a DOM but not CSS[3]; and browsers that allow you to
    > manipulate the DOM without using Javascript[4].
    >
    > You may be thinking of "DHTML" which is an old buzz-word for
    > HTML + DOM + CSS + Javascript.
    >
    > The DOM is basically a tree structure that the browser creates in
    > memory when it parses an HTML document[5], and (if the browser
    > supports CSS) will also have styling information attached as "leaves".
    >
    > This tree (including all its branches and leaves) can then be
    > inspected and manipulated using Javascript, or any other scripting
    > language that the host browser offers[6]. As the tree is manipulated
    > the browser updates the display of the page to match, allowing
    > for DOM manipulation to produce dynamic effects on-page.
    >
    > ____
    > 1. CSS can be used to style non-HTML documents -- e.g. RSS.
    > 2. HTML can be styled using non-CSS style sheets -- e.g. JSSS
    > (Netscape 4.x)
    > 3. Netscape 2 and 3.
    > 4. Internet Explorer 4+ on Windows, with VBScript.
    > 5. Any structured document can have a DOM, but HTML and XML are
    > most common.
    > 6. As per #4, VBScript is supported in some browsers. Mozilla's
    > roadmap includes the ability to "plug in" scripting modules allowing
    > DOM scripting in Perl, Python, etc:
    > http://www.mozilla.org/scriptable/agnostic.html


    About the best definition I have seen so far.
    Bob, May 18, 2006
    #15
  16. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS)support (Opera wins)

    NoNamer wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    >> Using this page
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    >>
    >> I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    >> (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    >> 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5
    >>
    >> Here they are:
    >>
    >> DOM 1 supports how many
    >>
    >> IE5 264 (15 more are broken)
    >> IE6 293 (15 more are broken)
    >> Opera 7 337 (1 is broken)
    >> Opera 8 337 (1 is broken)
    >> Opera 9 370 (1 is broken)
    >> Firefox 367
    >>
    >> Opera 9 barely edges out Firefox for DOM 1 support, but it is basically
    >> a tie. IE is quite a bit behind. Even Opera 7 bests it considerably.
    >>
    >>
    >> DOM 2 supports how many
    >>
    >> IE5 43 (2 more are broken)
    >> IE6 44 (2 more are broken)
    >> Opera 7 70
    >> Opera 8 116
    >> Opera 9 154
    >> Firefox 176
    >>
    >> Firefox definitely wins for DOM 2 support, but Opera 9 also does very
    >> well. IE6 looks like a disaster for DOM 2. Even the older Opera 7 does
    >> much better than IE. Even more shameful is that IE barely improved from
    >> v5 to v6
    >>
    >>
    >> DOM 3 supports how many
    >>
    >> IE5 0
    >> IE6 0
    >> Opera 7 1
    >> Opera 8 7
    >> Opera 9 54
    >> Firefox 19
    >>
    >> Although DOM 3 is very new and not supported well by browsers, Opera 9
    >> does dramatically better than any other browser in implementing it. IE,
    >> shamefully, has not implemented one spec, and has not improved again
    >> between v5 and v6. Firefox does a decent job of implementing DOM 3,
    >> considering that no browser implements much of it.
    >>
    >>
    >> Totals
    >>
    >> IE5 307
    >> IE6 337
    >> Opera 7 408
    >> Opera 8 460
    >> Opera 9 578
    >> Firefox 562
    >>
    >>
    >> For the totals, Opera 9 has the best DOM support of any major browser!
    >> Yaaaay! Firefox is quite close though. IE is horribly behind and has
    >> barely improved from one old version to the next. Even Opera 7 is much
    >> better than IE6. The only conclusion is that when it comes to DOM, IE is
    >> an incredibly broken browser. The fact that 85% of the net is using this
    >> stupid, broken browser is just disgusting.
    >>>>

    >> Methods: I counted them by hand, so there may be some errors. Feel free
    >> to recheck. I think my totals are pretty good though.

    >
    > I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?


    Yes, I do, but not from that url. From another one, I was *really*
    disappointed. There has been some limited progress WRT to CSS, but
    nothing spectacular. WRT to DOM, I am not sure if there is much new at
    all. These people like Web Standards Project (MS is now an official
    member) who have been raving about how IE7 is so much more
    standards-compliant appear to be horribly wrong. I was of the opinion
    that IE7 was much better in this regard, and when I looked it up, it was
    profoundly disappointing. Bottom line is IE7 is still dramatically
    backwards in terms of standards implementation.
    >
    > I've been using it for about 2 weeks now and really like it. The zoom
    > feature is awesome.


    That's cool. I refuse to use IE on principle, not because it's a crappy
    browser. After a reinstall, I used it for a couple of days intensively
    and I had to admit it was pleasant, esp because so many pages seem to be
    designed specifically for that browser. However, I ran without
    antivirus, and by the end of the 2 days, I had something like 12 trojans
    on my system!
    Bob, May 18, 2006
    #16
  17. Bob

    NoNamer Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    Bob wrote:
    > NoNamer wrote:
    > > Bob wrote:
    > >> Using this page
    > >>
    > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    > >>
    > >> I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    > >> (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    > >> 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5
    > >>
    > >> Here they are:
    > >>
    > >> DOM 1 supports how many
    > >>
    > >> IE5 264 (15 more are broken)
    > >> IE6 293 (15 more are broken)
    > >> Opera 7 337 (1 is broken)
    > >> Opera 8 337 (1 is broken)
    > >> Opera 9 370 (1 is broken)
    > >> Firefox 367
    > >>
    > >> Opera 9 barely edges out Firefox for DOM 1 support, but it is basically
    > >> a tie. IE is quite a bit behind. Even Opera 7 bests it considerably.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> DOM 2 supports how many
    > >>
    > >> IE5 43 (2 more are broken)
    > >> IE6 44 (2 more are broken)
    > >> Opera 7 70
    > >> Opera 8 116
    > >> Opera 9 154
    > >> Firefox 176
    > >>
    > >> Firefox definitely wins for DOM 2 support, but Opera 9 also does very
    > >> well. IE6 looks like a disaster for DOM 2. Even the older Opera 7 does
    > >> much better than IE. Even more shameful is that IE barely improved from
    > >> v5 to v6
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> DOM 3 supports how many
    > >>
    > >> IE5 0
    > >> IE6 0
    > >> Opera 7 1
    > >> Opera 8 7
    > >> Opera 9 54
    > >> Firefox 19
    > >>
    > >> Although DOM 3 is very new and not supported well by browsers, Opera 9
    > >> does dramatically better than any other browser in implementing it. IE,
    > >> shamefully, has not implemented one spec, and has not improved again
    > >> between v5 and v6. Firefox does a decent job of implementing DOM 3,
    > >> considering that no browser implements much of it.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Totals
    > >>
    > >> IE5 307
    > >> IE6 337
    > >> Opera 7 408
    > >> Opera 8 460
    > >> Opera 9 578
    > >> Firefox 562
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> For the totals, Opera 9 has the best DOM support of any major browser!
    > >> Yaaaay! Firefox is quite close though. IE is horribly behind and has
    > >> barely improved from one old version to the next. Even Opera 7 is much
    > >> better than IE6. The only conclusion is that when it comes to DOM, IE is
    > >> an incredibly broken browser. The fact that 85% of the net is using this
    > >> stupid, broken browser is just disgusting.
    > >>>>
    > >> Methods: I counted them by hand, so there may be some errors. Feel free
    > >> to recheck. I think my totals are pretty good though.

    > >
    > > I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?

    >
    > Yes, I do, but not from that url. From another one, I was *really*
    > disappointed. There has been some limited progress WRT to CSS, but
    > nothing spectacular. WRT to DOM, I am not sure if there is much new at
    > all. These people like Web Standards Project (MS is now an official
    > member) who have been raving about how IE7 is so much more
    > standards-compliant appear to be horribly wrong. I was of the opinion
    > that IE7 was much better in this regard, and when I looked it up, it was
    > profoundly disappointing. Bottom line is IE7 is still dramatically
    > backwards in terms of standards implementation.
    > >
    > > I've been using it for about 2 weeks now and really like it. The zoom
    > > feature is awesome.

    >
    > That's cool. I refuse to use IE on principle, not because it's a crappy
    > browser. After a reinstall, I used it for a couple of days intensively
    > and I had to admit it was pleasant, esp because so many pages seem to be
    > designed specifically for that browser. However, I ran without
    > antivirus, and by the end of the 2 days, I had something like 12 trojans
    > on my system!


    Wow... I haven't run across any bad stuff at all.

    Can you post a link to one of the sites that had a trojan? I would
    like to test out IE7 in this regard.

    Thanks.
    NoNamer, May 18, 2006
    #17
  18. Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS) support (Opera wins)

    On Thu, 18 May 2006 02:22:29 -0700, Bob wrote:

    >> I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?

    >
    > Yes, I do, but not from that url. From another one, I was *really*
    > disappointed. There has been some limited progress WRT to CSS, but
    > nothing spectacular. WRT to DOM, I am not sure if there is much new at
    > all. These people like Web Standards Project (MS is now an official
    > member) who have been raving about how IE7 is so much more
    > standards-compliant appear to be horribly wrong. I was of the opinion
    > that IE7 was much better in this regard, and when I looked it up, it was
    > profoundly disappointing. Bottom line is IE7 is still dramatically
    > backwards in terms of standards implementation.


    IE7's primary goal was to fix the flaws that made IE's CSS support so
    difficult to write code compatible with other browsers. A subset is much
    easier to deal with if that subset performs the same as everyone else.

    They did add some highly requested features, like min-width/height, but
    largely not a lot of new CSS features (a notable exception is enhanced CSS
    selector support [first-child, adjacent, etc..] and :hover on all
    elements.)

    The next version is supposed to address more CSS and DOM features,
    including adding an xml parser for xhtml+xml mime type support, etc..
    Frankly, fixing the existing CSS bugs is a huge step forward in my opinion.
    Erik Funkenbusch, May 18, 2006
    #18
  19. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS)support (Opera wins)

    NoNamer wrote:
    > Bob wrote:
    >> NoNamer wrote:
    >>> Bob wrote:
    >>>> Using this page
    >>>>
    >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_layout_engines_(DOM)
    >>>>
    >>>> I made some rather unscientific computations of the levels of DOM
    >>>> (Document Object Model), ie, Javascript + CSS, support for IE 6, Opera
    >>>> 7, 8 and 9 and Firefox 1.5
    >>>>
    >>>> Here they are:
    >>>>
    >>>> DOM 1 supports how many
    >>>>
    >>>> IE5 264 (15 more are broken)
    >>>> IE6 293 (15 more are broken)
    >>>> Opera 7 337 (1 is broken)
    >>>> Opera 8 337 (1 is broken)
    >>>> Opera 9 370 (1 is broken)
    >>>> Firefox 367
    >>>>
    >>>> Opera 9 barely edges out Firefox for DOM 1 support, but it is basically
    >>>> a tie. IE is quite a bit behind. Even Opera 7 bests it considerably.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> DOM 2 supports how many
    >>>>
    >>>> IE5 43 (2 more are broken)
    >>>> IE6 44 (2 more are broken)
    >>>> Opera 7 70
    >>>> Opera 8 116
    >>>> Opera 9 154
    >>>> Firefox 176
    >>>>
    >>>> Firefox definitely wins for DOM 2 support, but Opera 9 also does very
    >>>> well. IE6 looks like a disaster for DOM 2. Even the older Opera 7 does
    >>>> much better than IE. Even more shameful is that IE barely improved from
    >>>> v5 to v6
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> DOM 3 supports how many
    >>>>
    >>>> IE5 0
    >>>> IE6 0
    >>>> Opera 7 1
    >>>> Opera 8 7
    >>>> Opera 9 54
    >>>> Firefox 19
    >>>>
    >>>> Although DOM 3 is very new and not supported well by browsers, Opera 9
    >>>> does dramatically better than any other browser in implementing it. IE,
    >>>> shamefully, has not implemented one spec, and has not improved again
    >>>> between v5 and v6. Firefox does a decent job of implementing DOM 3,
    >>>> considering that no browser implements much of it.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Totals
    >>>>
    >>>> IE5 307
    >>>> IE6 337
    >>>> Opera 7 408
    >>>> Opera 8 460
    >>>> Opera 9 578
    >>>> Firefox 562
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> For the totals, Opera 9 has the best DOM support of any major browser!
    >>>> Yaaaay! Firefox is quite close though. IE is horribly behind and has
    >>>> barely improved from one old version to the next. Even Opera 7 is much
    >>>> better than IE6. The only conclusion is that when it comes to DOM, IE is
    >>>> an incredibly broken browser. The fact that 85% of the net is using this
    >>>> stupid, broken browser is just disgusting.
    >>>> Methods: I counted them by hand, so there may be some errors. Feel free
    >>>> to recheck. I think my totals are pretty good though.
    >>> I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?

    >> Yes, I do, but not from that url. From another one, I was *really*
    >> disappointed. There has been some limited progress WRT to CSS, but
    >> nothing spectacular. WRT to DOM, I am not sure if there is much new at
    >> all. These people like Web Standards Project (MS is now an official
    >> member) who have been raving about how IE7 is so much more
    >> standards-compliant appear to be horribly wrong. I was of the opinion
    >> that IE7 was much better in this regard, and when I looked it up, it was
    >> profoundly disappointing. Bottom line is IE7 is still dramatically
    >> backwards in terms of standards implementation.
    >>> I've been using it for about 2 weeks now and really like it. The zoom
    >>> feature is awesome.

    >> That's cool. I refuse to use IE on principle, not because it's a crappy
    >> browser. After a reinstall, I used it for a couple of days intensively
    >> and I had to admit it was pleasant, esp because so many pages seem to be
    >> designed specifically for that browser. However, I ran without
    >> antivirus, and by the end of the 2 days, I had something like 12 trojans
    >> on my system!

    >
    > Wow... I haven't run across any bad stuff at all.
    >
    > Can you post a link to one of the sites that had a trojan? I would
    > like to test out IE7 in this regard.


    Dunno, I was surfing tons of porn sites and they gave me trojans. Mostly
    the advertiser-tracking variety, not really harmful...
    >
    Bob, May 18, 2006
    #19
  20. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Re: Comparisons of IE, Opera and Firefox on DOM (Javascript/CSS)support (Opera wins)

    Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
    > On Thu, 18 May 2006 02:22:29 -0700, Bob wrote:
    >
    >>> I know it's not out yet, but any preliminary data for IE7?

    >> Yes, I do, but not from that url. From another one, I was *really*
    >> disappointed. There has been some limited progress WRT to CSS, but
    >> nothing spectacular. WRT to DOM, I am not sure if there is much new at
    >> all. These people like Web Standards Project (MS is now an official
    >> member) who have been raving about how IE7 is so much more
    >> standards-compliant appear to be horribly wrong. I was of the opinion
    >> that IE7 was much better in this regard, and when I looked it up, it was
    >> profoundly disappointing. Bottom line is IE7 is still dramatically
    >> backwards in terms of standards implementation.

    >
    > IE7's primary goal was to fix the flaws that made IE's CSS support so
    > difficult to write code compatible with other browsers. A subset is much
    > easier to deal with if that subset performs the same as everyone else.
    >
    > They did add some highly requested features, like min-width/height, but
    > largely not a lot of new CSS features (a notable exception is enhanced CSS
    > selector support [first-child, adjacent, etc..] and :hover on all
    > elements.)
    >
    > The next version is supposed to address more CSS and DOM features,
    > including adding an xml parser for xhtml+xml mime type support, etc..
    > Frankly, fixing the existing CSS bugs is a huge step forward in my opinion.


    Well, anything is positive.

    You have to excuse me. I am a Microsoft hater. But we also make
    webpages, and most of us hate IE.

    You are correct, the bugs are the real killers. A nonimplemented spec is
    much easier to deal with.
    Bob, May 19, 2006
    #20
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