Frames .. what are the problems?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by code_wrong, May 30, 2005.

  1. code_wrong

    code_wrong Guest

    Hi,
    look at this site:
    http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
    It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
    why should we not use frames again?
    How could I create a similar page without using frames?
    One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
    page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
    this would be appreciated by narrowband users.
    code_wrong, May 30, 2005
    #1
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  2. code_wrong

    SpaceGirl Guest

    code_wrong wrote:
    > Hi,
    > look at this site:
    > http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
    > It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
    > why should we not use frames again?
    > How could I create a similar page without using frames?
    > One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
    > page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
    > this would be appreciated by narrowband users.
    >
    >


    ....and not to mention impossible to bookmark a page deep down in the site.

    Anyway - there is nothing "wrong" with frames. Just like any technology,
    if misused they can make a mess of things and make life harder rather
    than easier.

    You could convert the same page with no frames in SSI in about 5 minutes.
    SpaceGirl, May 30, 2005
    #2
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  3. code_wrong wrote:
    > http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
    > It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
    > why should we not use frames again?
    > How could I create a similar page without using frames?
    > One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
    > page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
    > this would be appreciated by narrowband users.


    Once the buttons and title are cached, you don't have to download them
    again. So the only reason you state in your post about why it is a good
    thing is moot now.


    --
    -=tn=-
    Travis Newbury, May 30, 2005
    #3
  4. code_wrong

    Toby Inkster Guest

    code_wrong wrote:

    > why should we not use frames again?
    > How could I create a similar page without using frames?


    There are a number of problems with frames -- though many of them have
    workarounds (but the workarounds tend to negate the perceived "advantages"
    of frames).

    I am in the middle of writing a tutorial on how to use frames well. You
    can find this tutorial here:

    http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php

    (Link is not permanent -- the tutorial will be moved to a new home when
    it's finished.)

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, May 30, 2005
    #4
  5. code_wrong

    code_wrong Guest

    "Toby Inkster" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > code_wrong wrote:
    >
    >> why should we not use frames again?
    >> How could I create a similar page without using frames?

    >
    > There are a number of problems with frames -- though many of them have
    > workarounds (but the workarounds tend to negate the perceived "advantages"
    > of frames).
    >
    > I am in the middle of writing a tutorial on how to use frames well. You
    > can find this tutorial here:
    >
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php
    >
    > (Link is not permanent -- the tutorial will be moved to a new home when
    > it's finished.)


    Excellent thanks ... Funnily enough, as you said the URL would not be
    permanent, my first reaction was to think "OK I'll save it to disk" .. Since
    you have used frames this is not so easy ... ..ironic?
    code_wrong, May 30, 2005
    #5
  6. code_wrong

    jake Guest

    In message <429ae8b9$>, code_wrong
    <> writes
    >Hi,
    >look at this site:
    >http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
    >It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
    >why should we not use frames again?
    >

    Frames are OK -- but not as you have implemented them:

    (a) The <noframes> section should not just have a:
    "This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them."

    It should be used to provide indexing information for any non-frames
    capable or non-frames enabled browser, and to Search Engines.

    (b) Your navigation frame is made up of images with no alternative text.
    Any user relying on assistive technology (text-to-speech,
    text-to-Braille, etc.) to access your system will 'see':
    (i) At worst -- nothing
    (ii) At best -- a list of the urls

    i.e.

    [www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/welcome.htm.]
    [www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/about_backgrnd.htm.]
    [www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/locationmain.htm.]
    [news/default.htm.]
    (29/04/2005)
    [parguide/parguide.htm.]
    [pta/index.htm.]
    [schboard/default.htm.]
    [www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/contact.htm.]
    [www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/search.htm.][links/index.htm.]

    each time that they try to use it.

    'double-u double-u double-u dot mackee dot aberdeensher dot ess see
    aitch dot yoo kay slash welcom dot aitch tee em

    and so on, and so on.

    (c) Your frame names and titles should contain meaningful entries. And
    the frame should have some content that's available to AT users:

    Users will know that there's a frame called 'New Page 1', but when they
    go to it they'll just be told 'This frame is empty'.

    * You may want to read up on the DDA.

    regards.

    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
    jake, May 31, 2005
    #6
  7. Toby Inkster wrote:
    > http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php


    You should probably check that $_GET['page'] is a valid page before
    trying to include it. Right now, if you go to
    http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php?page=nonexistant,
    it will try to open a file called pages/nonexistant.page and display a
    PHP error message when it file can't be found.

    I don't think there's much of a security vulnerability (you can't see
    the database password by viewing ../../include.php, for instance, since
    it appends .page to the filename), but it's always better to be safe
    than sorry.
    Leif K-Brooks, May 31, 2005
    #7
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