Frames .. what are the problems?

[code_wrong]

Hi,
look at this site:
http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
why should we not use frames again?
How could I create a similar page without using frames?
One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
this would be appreciated by narrowband users.

 

[SpaceGirl]

Hi,
look at this site:
http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
why should we not use frames again?
How could I create a similar page without using frames?
One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
this would be appreciated by narrowband users.

....and not to mention impossible to bookmark a page deep down in the site.

Anyway - there is nothing "wrong" with frames. Just like any technology,
if misused they can make a mess of things and make life harder rather
than easier.

You could convert the same page with no frames in SSI in about 5 minutes.

 

[Travis Newbury]

http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
why should we not use frames again?
How could I create a similar page without using frames?
One of the nice aspects of the above site is the way the main part of the
page loads without having to reload the navigation buttons ....I am sure
this would be appreciated by narrowband users.

Once the buttons and title are cached, you don't have to download them
again. So the only reason you state in your post about why it is a good
thing is moot now.

 

[Toby Inkster]

why should we not use frames again?
How could I create a similar page without using frames?

There are a number of problems with frames -- though many of them have
workarounds (but the workarounds tend to negate the perceived "advantages"
of frames).

I am in the middle of writing a tutorial on how to use frames well. You
can find this tutorial here:

http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php

(Link is not permanent -- the tutorial will be moved to a new home when
it's finished.)

 

[code_wrong]

There are a number of problems with frames -- though many of them have
workarounds (but the workarounds tend to negate the perceived "advantages"
of frames).

I am in the middle of writing a tutorial on how to use frames well. You
can find this tutorial here:

http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php

(Link is not permanent -- the tutorial will be moved to a new home when
it's finished.)

Excellent thanks ... Funnily enough, as you said the URL would not be
permanent, my first reaction was to think "OK I'll save it to disk" .. Since
you have used frames this is not so easy ... ..ironic?

 

[jake]

Hi,
look at this site:
http://www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/default.htm
It is nice and simple .. the code is simple .. it uses frames
why should we not use frames again?

Frames are OK -- but not as you have implemented them:

(a) The <noframes> section should not just have a:
"This page uses frames, but your browser doesn't support them."

It should be used to provide indexing information for any non-frames
capable or non-frames enabled browser, and to Search Engines.

(b) Your navigation frame is made up of images with no alternative text.
Any user relying on assistive technology (text-to-speech,
text-to-Braille, etc.) to access your system will 'see':
(i) At worst -- nothing
(ii) At best -- a list of the urls

i.e.

[www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/welcome.htm.]
[www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/about_backgrnd.htm.]
[www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/locationmain.htm.]
[news/default.htm.]
(29/04/2005)
[parguide/parguide.htm.]
[pta/index.htm.]
[schboard/default.htm.]
[www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/contact.htm.]
[www.mackie.aberdeenshire.sch.uk/search.htm.][links/index.htm.]

each time that they try to use it.

'double-u double-u double-u dot mackee dot aberdeensher dot ess see
aitch dot yoo kay slash welcom dot aitch tee em

and so on, and so on.

(c) Your frame names and titles should contain meaningful entries. And
the frame should have some content that's available to AT users:

Users will know that there's a frame called 'New Page 1', but when they
go to it they'll just be told 'This frame is empty'.

* You may want to read up on the DDA.

regards.

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php

You should probably check that $_GET['page'] is a valid page before
trying to include it. Right now, if you go to
http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/frames/frameset.php?page=nonexistant,
it will try to open a file called pages/nonexistant.page and display a
PHP error message when it file can't be found.

I don't think there's much of a security vulnerability (you can't see
the database password by viewing ../../include.php, for instance, since
it appends .page to the filename), but it's always better to be safe
than sorry.