Help With Hiring Python Developers

Discussion in 'Python' started by fuego, Dec 1, 2004.

  1. fuego

    fuego Guest

    My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
    two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
    posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
    anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free
    to have a look at the job description and let me know if there is
    anything that we're missing. This is the first time we've recruited
    specifically for these Python and Zope, as we've had internal
    advocates who have brought its use to critical mass.
    http://jobs.primediabusiness.com/ar/internal_programmer_analyst/index.htm

    Thanks in advance!
    fuego, Dec 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. fuego <> wrote:

    > My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
    > two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
    > posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
    > anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free


    Have you tried python.org? I believe they list jobs offers too,
    nowadays. Also <http://www.pythonandzope.com/JobMarket/index_html>?

    Could also be just that the job market is tight for Manhattan-local
    candidates right now... considering you accept Perl as well as Python,
    and have Zope/Plone only as 'desired' and not 'required', I'd say you're
    casting as wide a net as feasible, and then some, in terms of skills
    background.


    Alex
    Alex Martelli, Dec 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. fuego

    Bill McClain Guest

    Bill McClain, Dec 1, 2004
    #3
  4. fuego> We've posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and
    fuego> python.jobmart.com. Can anyone advise other job boards that
    fuego> might be helpful?

    http://www.python.org/Jobs-howto.html

    Skip
    Skip Montanaro, Dec 1, 2004
    #4
  5. fuego

    Miklós P Guest

    "fuego" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
    > two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
    > posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
    > anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free

    ...
    > Thanks in advance!


    Hm, you're looking for *Manhattan locals* who are required to have Perl
    skills (i.e. magically working, hardly readable line noise :D ) but
    optionally they may have Python skills, too (i.e. magically working, easily
    readable pseudo code :D )

    How about adding the additional requirement of COBOL and that the applicant
    must live in a particular street? :)

    Miklós
    Miklós P, Dec 1, 2004
    #5
  6. fuego

    Ed Leafe Guest

    On Dec 1, 2004, at 12:18 PM, Bill McClain wrote:

    >> My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
    >> two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling.

    >
    > Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.


    Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested in
    the job, but man, that commute would be a pain! ;-)

    ___/
    /
    __/
    /
    ____/
    Ed Leafe
    http://leafe.com/
    http://dabodev.com/
    Ed Leafe, Dec 4, 2004
    #6
  7. fuego

    William Park Guest

    fuego <> wrote:
    > My company (http://primedia.com/divisions/businessinformation/) has
    > two job openings that we're having a heckuva time filling. We've
    > posted at Monster, Dice, jobs.perl.org and python.jobmart.com. Can
    > anyone advise other job boards that might be helpful? Also, feel free
    > to have a look at the job description and let me know if there is
    > anything that we're missing. This is the first time we've recruited
    > specifically for these Python and Zope, as we've had internal
    > advocates who have brought its use to critical mass.
    > http://jobs.primediabusiness.com/ar/internal_programmer_analyst/index.htm
    >
    > Thanks in advance!


    You are not being realistic.
    - "email marketing" means spams.
    - "Perl and/or Python" and " "Zope and Plone" indicate that you
    don't know what you are doing, so you're simply listing what any
    clueless HR would be doing.
    - Manhattan, New York is expensive place to live in, even you're
    paying Manhattan dollar.

    Instead of listing what I should know, why don't you list what I would
    be doing? That is, what problems do you need to solve?

    Yours truly,
    --
    William Park <>
    Open Geometry Consulting
    Linux solution for data processing.
    William Park, Dec 4, 2004
    #7
  8. "Ed Leafe" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >> Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

    >
    > Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested


    And, if they are willing to go offsite, why not go to India and save lots of
    bucks?

    If I had the skills, I'd be willing to take a contract up to 1 year with
    expenses paid
    to visit Manhattan!
    Yet Another Mike, Dec 5, 2004
    #8
  9. fuego

    Ian Bicking Guest

    Yet Another Mike wrote:
    > "Ed Leafe" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>>Allow offsite workers and you'll have all the candidates you want.

    >>
    >>Exactly. I'm 5 hours away in Rochester, NY, and might be interested

    >
    >
    > And, if they are willing to go offsite, why not go to India and save lots of
    > bucks?


    Trust issues? In general, Python requires you trust your programmers.
    People give Java grief about its restricted environment and static
    typing, but if you don't trust the programmer to do a good job, at least
    with Java they (maybe) can't mess things up as badly for everyone else
    working on a project. You can mess things up royally with Python. I
    like working with a language that respects my intelligence, but that's
    not without its costs.

    In general, Python rewards highly-skilled programmers with a
    considerably increased productivity. We talk about how Python is also
    easy to learn and maintain, and that's still true, but it doesn't mean
    that it evens out the differences in productivity between programmers.
    In fact, quite the opposite -- that it's easy to learn and maintain
    means that there's less risk in using a highly skilled, highly
    productive programmer; in other languages you risk being left with a
    program that only another highly skilled programmer can maintain.

    Also, Python encourages agile methodologies, even if you aren't
    explicitly trying to use agile methodologies. They just work well.
    They also work well when you can have a more intimate relationship
    between developer and project manager or customer. Hiring in India or
    elsewhere makes that intimate relationship harder to create. And
    frankly, Python is not the language for companies who expect mediocrity
    in their programmers, and I think that outsourcing is for companies that
    expect mediocrity.

    I don't mean to insult Indian programmers -- certainly there are Indian
    programmers who are just as good as a good programmer in the US, able to
    communicate well, able to work independently, able to judge tradeoffs,
    etc. But those aren't the cheap ones. This isn't just about nation of
    origin. Outsourcing is about turning programmers into a commodity, and
    you can only make a commodity out of something where quality isn't an
    issue. In the case of programming, that means you must expect the
    lowest common denominator of quality given the constraints. I think
    that's a stupid way to look at programming in general, but it's *way*
    more stupid with Python.

    --
    Ian Bicking / / http://blog.ianbicking.org
    Ian Bicking, Dec 5, 2004
    #9
  10. fuego

    Michael Fuhr Guest

    Ian Bicking <> writes:

    > ...that it's easy to learn and maintain means that there's less risk
    > in using a highly skilled, highly productive programmer; in other
    > languages you risk being left with a program that only another
    > highly skilled programmer can maintain.


    Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
    skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
    remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
    cartoon swearing). His justification isn't that he wants to keep
    the work in the good-ol'-boy network (although that might be part
    of it), but that by making it difficult for anybody else, you're
    ensuring that only good programmers ever work on the code.

    Tell that to the poor slob who gets stuck with the job because the
    department can't or won't hire anybody else.

    --
    Michael Fuhr
    http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/
    Michael Fuhr, Dec 6, 2004
    #10
  11. fuego

    Paul Rubin Guest

    (Michael Fuhr) writes:
    > Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
    > skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
    > remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
    > cartoon swearing).


    TECO? Some of the best programmers I know used it, but I hadn't heard
    of anything being done in it in quite a while.
    Paul Rubin, Dec 6, 2004
    #11
  12. fuego

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    Paul Rubin <http://> wrote:
    > (Michael Fuhr) writes:
    >>
    >> Indeed. An acquaintance of mine advocates writing code that only
    >> skilled programmers can maintain (he favors a language that shall
    >> remain nameless but that has been known to resemble modem noise or
    >> cartoon swearing).

    >
    >TECO? Some of the best programmers I know used it, but I hadn't heard
    >of anything being done in it in quite a while.


    APL. I've heard programmers making similar comments (including possibly
    Michael's nameless acquaintance).
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    WiFi is the SCSI of the 21st Century -- there are fundamental technical
    reasons for sacrificing a goat. (with no apologies to John Woods)
    Aahz, Dec 6, 2004
    #12
  13. "Aahz" <> wrote in message
    news:cp1td2$dfo$...

    > APL. I've heard programmers making similar comments (including possibly
    > Michael's nameless acquaintance).


    Especially programmers who've never used it.

    To me, grousing about APL's unusual character set sounds a lot like grousing
    about Python's unusual lexical structure. Both language aspects seem weird
    at first, but the weirdness rapidly goes away with experience.
    Andrew Koenig, Dec 6, 2004
    #13
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