Important features for editors

[cutems93]

I am researching on editors for my own reference. I found that each of themhas some features that other don't, but I am not sure which features are significant/necessary for a GOOD editor. What features do you a good editor should have? Keyboard shortcuts? Extensions?

Thanks!
Min

 

[Îίκος]

Στις 4/7/2013 10:32 πμ, ο/η cutems93 έγÏαψε:

I am researching on editors for my own reference. I found that each of them has some features that other don't, but I am not sure which features are significant/necessary for a GOOD editor. What features do you a good editor should have? Keyboard shortcuts? Extensions?

Thanks!
Min

Download Sublime Text v3

Is a great editor

 

[Göktuğ Kayaalp]

Programmability comes to my mind, before anything else. I'd suggest
to find out about designs of Emacs and Vi(m).

 

[Dave Angel]

Στις 4/7/2013 10:32 πμ, ο/η cutems93 έγÏαψε:
Download Sublime Text v3

Is a great editor

When possible, it's polite to supply a link to the page where it's
described or can be downloaded. In this case,

http://www.sublimetext.com/

It looks pretty good on the web page. The main negatives I can see are:
It costs $70 per user
It can only be purchased with Paypal, which I won't use.
It's available for OS/X, Linux and Windows, with a single purchase
The eval/demo is not time-limited (currently)

The positives
It can be customized, apparently in Python
The simple customizations are specified by JSON files
Current download is version 2, but there's a version 3 beta, and if
you buy now, you won't have an upgrade fee.

.......

Note that the OP didn't ask which is a good editor, but which features
make a good editor. I'll post a response to that in a little while.

 

[Dave Angel]

I am researching on editors for my own reference. I found that each of them has some features that other don't, but I am not sure which features are significant/necessary for a GOOD editor. What features do you a good editor should have? Keyboard shortcuts? Extensions?

Not sure what you mean by keyboard shortcuts. If you mean there should
be a keyboard version of anything that can be done with the mouse,
absolutely.

There are hundreds of features that could be listed, and only you can
decide which ones are important. I'll try to list a few that are
important to me, and some more that would sure be nice.

Very important:
--------------

It runs on every platform I'm using. It's extremely fast, when run
locally, and reasonable over a slow internet connection.

Licensing is free, or very inexpensive

It opens and edits files of fairly arbitrary size (at least 10 MB)

It has a large number of potential buffers, for editing multiple files
at the same time.

It can readily be customized, on a per-language basis, so that it can
easily handle the quirks of each language. And it switches between them
based on file name, without explicitly setting some mode. However, if
the filename is unconventional, it allows the buffer to be explicitly
set to a particular language, not affecting other files that are
simultaneously open.

It comes pre-customized for the languages I'm likely to use now. That
includes pseudo languages like html, xml, css, not just "programming
languages."

It supports my own strange preferences for tab-handling, or at least can
be customized to do so.

It recognizes immediately when a file has been changed on disk, and
gives me reasonable ways to merge my current edits into what's now in
the disk file.

It doesn't force me to accept .bak or other funny files; that's what
dvcs systems are for. It CAN create such files while a file is being
edited, they just shouldn't persist after the editor is normally closed.

If it has project files, they should be out of band, not mixed in with
source files I'm editing.

Nice to have:
------------

It has visible spaces (and tabs, and other funny white-space characters)

It can be run in an ssh session, remotely, over a satellite internet
connection and vpn.

Customization language is one I'm comfortable with. Not VBA or javascript.

Mandatory for Python use:
------------------------

It understands indenting, and lets you easily get to the various columns
that are legal at any point. This means it recognizes if statements and
suchlike, and indents (4) spaces for the following line. And when you
want to unindent, you don't have to use 4 backspaces, but just press the
tab again.

Nice for Python use:
-------------------

Syntax coloring.

Re-indenting a group of lines by plus-or-minus 4 columns.



Now, you may be asking about an IDE. And that's a whole other kettle of
fish. Context-sensitive auto-completion, jump to definition,
refactoring support, data breakpoints, ...


Candidates?
emacs - standard on most OS's, available for Windows from various
websites
Komodo Edit free
http://www.activestate.com/komodo-edit
Komodo IDE not free
http://www.activestate.com/komodo-ide

 

[Îίκος]

Στις 4/7/2013 11:34 πμ, ο/η Dave Angel έγÏαψε:

When possible, it's polite to supply a link to the page where it's
described or can be downloaded. In this case,

http://www.sublimetext.com/

It looks pretty good on the web page. The main negatives I can see are:
It costs $70 per user
It can only be purchased with Paypal, which I won't use.
It's available for OS/X, Linux and Windows, with a single purchase
The eval/demo is not time-limited (currently)

The positives
It can be customized, apparently in Python
The simple customizations are specified by JSON files
Current download is version 2, but there's a version 3 beta, and if
you buy now, you won't have an upgrade fee.

......

Note that the OP didn't ask which is a good editor, but which features
make a good editor. I'll post a response to that in a little while.

If you guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it.
I know its illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without
buying it.

 

[Chris Angelico]

If you guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it.
I know its illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without buying
it.

Considering that there are plenty of free text editors around, I don't
see any reason to steal one. If you want a pay-for editor, pay for it.
If you don't want to pay, use emacs or SciTE or nano or something.

ChrisA

 

[Robert Kern]

If you guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it.
I know its illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without buying it.

Please do not use this forum to make such offers.

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

 

[Tim Chase]

On 2013-07-04 05:02, Dave Angel wrote:
[snip an excellent list of things to look for in an editor]

Also,

- the ability to perform changes in bulk, especially across files.
Often, this is done with the ability to record/playback macros,
though some editors have multiple insertion/edit cursors; others
allow for performing a bulk-change command across the entire file
or list of files.

- folding (the ability to collapse multiple lines of text down to one
line). Especially if there are various ways to do it (manual
folding, language-block folding, folding by indentation)

- multiple clipboard buffers/registers

- multiple bookmarks

- the ability to interact with external programs (piping a portion of
a file through an external utility)

- a good community around it in case you have questions

- easy navigation to "important" things in your file (where
"important" may vary based on file-type, but may include function
definitions, paragraph boundaries, matching
paren/bracket/brace/tag, etc)

Other nice-to-haves include

- split window editing
- tabbed windows
- Unicode support (including various encodings)
- vimgolf.com ;-)

Candidates?
emacs - standard on most OS's, available for Windows from

And I'll put in a plug for Vim.

-tkc

 

[Îίκος ΓκÏ33κ]

Στις 4/7/2013 4:33 μμ, ο/η Steve Simmons έγÏαψε:

Στις 4/7/2013 11:34 πμ, ο/η Dave Angel έγÏαψε:

On 07/04/2013 03:59 AM, Îίκος wrote:

Στις 4/7/2013 10:32 πμ, ο/η cutems93 έγÏαψε:

I am researching on editors for my own reference. I
found that each of
them has some features that other don't, but I am not
sure which
features are significant/necessary for a GOOD editor.
What features do
you a good editor should have? Keyboard shortcuts?
Extensions?

Thanks!
Min


Download Sublime Text v3

Is a great editor



When possible, it's polite to supply a link to the page where it's
described or can be downloaded. In this case,

http://www.sublimetext.com/

It looks pretty good on the web page. The main negatives I can
see are:
It costs $70 per user
It can only be purchased with Paypal, which I won't use.
It's available for OS/X, Linux and Windows, with a single purchase
The eval/demo is not time-limited (currently)

The positives
It can be customized, apparently in Python
The simple customizations are specified by JSON files
Current download is version 2, but there's a version 3 beta, and if
you buy now, you won't have an upgrade fee.

......

Note that the OP didn't ask which is a good editor, but which
features
make a good editor. I'll post a response to that in a little while.



If you
guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it.
I know its illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without
buying it.


Boy oh boy! You really are a slow learner Nicos. You have just offered
to commit a crime and to include dozens of others in that crime ON A
PUBLIC FORUM. Please think before you post.

Sent from a Galaxy far far away

Just wanted to help people that might wanted it, thats all, its a great
editor, but i wont post in public again such propositions.

 

[rusi]

Boy oh boy! You really are a slow learner Nicos. You have just offered to
commit a crime and to include dozens of others in that crime ON A PUBLIC
FORUM. Please think before you post.

For the record Steve, let me say, I find Robert Kern's objection barely sufficient.

And yours less than that.

Note that you are not objecting to the crime but to the public expression of it.
Just look at your objection from the angle of a police officer, and you will see that it can certainly be construed as abetment/collusion (or whatever is the legalistic jargon. Obviously IANAL)

For the sake of covering my own arse let me say:
1. I have earlier described Nikos as a petty-criminal and consider myself justified.
2. I have earlier described condoning him as collusion and I reiterate that claim.

And I add
3. The collective actions of this list will help determine further whether he climbs or descends the criminal ladder.

Beyond that I reiterate what I said earlier in this thread: These discussions 'in-band' are counter-productive.

Setting up something like an invite-only yahoo or google group or some such to discuss this is free and takes 5 minutes.

I would have offered to do it but some people like Joshua Landau seem to think I am interested in world (aka Python-list) domination so not offering.
I was actually going to suggest that Steven d'Aprano do it. However before I could do that, he said (in CoC thread) that policing is not possible. Saddens me...

So I am suggesting you do it.

If I am invited I will contribute my 2c. If not, no objection: I dont consider myself a very important member of this list.

And yes: I hope you will consider rewording your objection, if not anything to cover your own you-know-what-where!!

 

[feedthetroll]

Am Donnerstag, 4. Juli 2013 15:36:02 UTC+2 schrieb Îίκος ΓκÏ33κ:

Στις 4/7/2013 4:33 μμ, ο/η Steve Simmons έγÏαψε:
Just wanted to help people that might wanted it, thats all, its a great
editor, but i wont post in public again such propositions.

Ahh, I see. Committing crimes is O.K. as long as
1. I think I help other with it and
2. I do not talk about it.

Yep. That's a great attitude towards life.

 

[MRAB]

On 2013-07-04 05:02, Dave Angel wrote:
[snip an excellent list of things to look for in an editor]

Also,

- the ability to perform changes in bulk, especially across files.
Often, this is done with the ability to record/playback macros,
though some editors have multiple insertion/edit cursors; others
allow for performing a bulk-change command across the entire file
or list of files.

- folding (the ability to collapse multiple lines of text down to one
line). Especially if there are various ways to do it (manual
folding, language-block folding, folding by indentation)

- multiple clipboard buffers/registers

- multiple bookmarks

- the ability to interact with external programs (piping a portion of
a file through an external utility)

- a good community around it in case you have questions

- easy navigation to "important" things in your file (where
"important" may vary based on file-type, but may include function
definitions, paragraph boundaries, matching
paren/bracket/brace/tag, etc)

Other nice-to-haves include

- split window editing
- tabbed windows
- Unicode support (including various encodings)

It's 2013, yet Unicode support is merely a "nice-to-have"?

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

For the record Steve, let me say, I find Robert Kern's objection barely
sufficient.

And yours less than that.

Note that you are not objecting to the crime

Which crime is that? Presumably you mean an actual criminal felony, not a
mere civil offence. Under which jurisdiction?

but to the public
expression of it. Just look at your objection from the angle of a police
officer, and you will see that it can certainly be construed as
abetment/collusion

If piracy is a crime, and not just a civil offence, then surely so is
libel. You have just accused Steve Simmons of collusion in a felony,
based on absolutely no evidence at all. That's as clear a case of libel
as I've ever seen. Although I'm not sure that the damages should be
terribly high -- there's little evidence that anyone treats your
ridiculously exaggerated claims about other people's supposed crimes as
anything but hot air.

But, putting damages aside, according to what passes for the reasoning
that you have demonstrated here, your committing libel would make you
equally a "petty criminal" as Nikos.


Speaking of petty, this whole witch-hunt is getting ridiculous. Don't you
have something more productive to do? Accusing people of colluding in
crimes because they fail to be sufficiently zealous in "objecting to the
crime" is nuts.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Please do not use this forum to make such offers.

Thank you Robert.

 

[rurpy]

On 2013-07-04 05:02, Dave Angel wrote:
[snip an excellent list of things to look for in an editor]

It's 2013, yet Unicode support is merely a "nice-to-have"?

I agree that this is pretty important. Even if you don't
have to deal with Unicode today, the chances are good that
you will need to, if only in an occasional way, in the
future.

One thing not mentioned (sorry if I missed it) that I
use more than many of the features that have been mentioned
is some form of advanced search/replace. I.e. something
that can do regular expression searches and replaces
including multiline ones.

Another feature I find necessary is very fast start up time
since I open an editor hundreds of times a day.

Because advanced features and fast startup seem to be mutually
exclusive, I often use two editors, a simple but quick starting
one like Gedit on Linux or Notepad on Windows for 90% of
routine editing and Emacs for the the other 10% when I need
to do something more powerful. But as a disclaimer I should
add that I do not spend 8+ hours a day doing nothing but
programming so YMMV.

BTW, the group is currently having a problem both with
trolls and with regulars here that bite at every baited
hook that drifts past their screen. There seems to nothing
to be done other than ignore the obnoxious posts but I am
sorry they have infiltrated your discussion. Hopefully
this comment won't add to the problem.

 

[Steve Simmons]

To Rurpy and cutems93,

My apologies too. I reacted before I thought about creating a new thread.

To your question: One thing that I don't use daily but find very useful to
have in an editor is 'Hex View' (or better yet a 'Hex Editor').

Whilst it has been 'dissed' recently on this list, I like Notepad++ for
everyday editing but if I'm head-down in a particular language, I prefer to
be in an IDE.

Steve

On 2013-07-04 05:02, Dave Angel wrote:
[snip an excellent list of things to look for in an editor]

It's 2013, yet Unicode support is merely a "nice-to-have"?

I agree that this is pretty important. Even if you don't
have to deal with Unicode today, the chances are good that
you will need to, if only in an occasional way, in the
future.

One thing not mentioned (sorry if I missed it) that I
use more than many of the features that have been mentioned
is some form of advanced search/replace. I.e. something
that can do regular expression searches and replaces
including multiline ones.

Another feature I find necessary is very fast start up time
since I open an editor hundreds of times a day.

Because advanced features and fast startup seem to be mutually
exclusive, I often use two editors, a simple but quick starting
one like Gedit on Linux or Notepad on Windows for 90% of
routine editing and Emacs for the the other 10% when I need
to do something more powerful. But as a disclaimer I should
add that I do not spend 8+ hours a day doing nothing but
programming so YMMV.

BTW, the group is currently having a problem both with
trolls and with regulars here that bite at every baited
hook that drifts past their screen. There seems to nothing
to be done other than ignore the obnoxious posts but I am
sorry they have infiltrated your discussion. Hopefully
this comment won't add to the problem.

 

[Grant Edwards]

If you guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it. I know its
illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without buying it.

A new low. Now he's offering to help people steal others' work.

 

[Ferrous Cranus]

Στις 4/7/2013 9:40 μμ, ο/η Grant Edwards έγÏαψε:

A new low. Now he's offering to help people steal others' work.

Like you never downloaded serials/keygens/patch/cracks for warez and
torrents websites.

What a hypocritism.....my intensions was to help the OP.

 

[Tim Chase]

It's 2013, yet Unicode support is merely a "nice-to-have"?

Yeah, while I use Vim and it's got support, most of what I do
interacts with unicode stuff as escaped rather than in-line. In
python, it's things like u"\u20AC" or in HTML/XML using one of the
escaping variants: € or € or even €

So I don't feel particularly hampered even if/when I get stuck with
an editor that only speaks lower-ASCII.

That's why I considered it merely "nice to have" rather than
"essential".

-tkc