Important features for editors

[Chris Angelico]

Óôéò 4/7/2013 9:40 ìì, ï/ç Grant Edwards Ýãñáøå:



Like you never downloaded serials/keygens/patch/cracks for warez and
torrents websites.

What a hypocritism.....my intensions was to help the OP.

Even if some of us *have* violated license agreements (which you
shouldn't assume is the case - most of us here are happily using free
software), it's still something that you shouldn't advocate in public.
Would you walk into a crowded room and start hawking a Kryptonite gun
("guaranteed to kill Superman, then you can go rob all the banks you
like") regardless of who's listening? No, you sell it quietly on the
black market. You certainly don't say "Hey, you guys have robbed banks
before... haven't you?", because that's certainly not going to be true
of everyone, and even if it is, it doesn't change what you've just
offered.

ChrisA

 

[Jason Swails]

Óôéò 4/7/2013 9:40 ìì, ï/ç Grant Edwards Ýãñáøå:



Like you never downloaded serials/keygens/patch/cracks for warez and
torrents websites.

What a hypocritism.....my intensions was to help the OP.

No, I don't. Ever. And I imagine many others on this list are the same
way. If I don't want to pay asking price for a product, I won't use it.
Period. There's an open source solution to almost everything. Learn to
use that instead.

Since many people on this list are in the business of making software, I'd
be willing to bet you are in the minority here. (The rather despised
minority, based on previous comments). Even people that strongly believe
all software should be free would avoid Sublime Text (or start an inspired
open source project), not crack it. Example: look at the history of git.

What you are doing (and offering to help others do in a public forum)
damages the very product you claim to like. Commercial software is
maintained and improved by the funding provided by product sales, which you
deprive them of by your behavior.

The original offer was misguided at best, but this attempted defense that
casts everyone else down to your level (and avoids admitting wrongdoing) is
reprehensible.

 

[Roy Smith]

[talking about Sublime Text]

There's, instead of a scrollbar, a little "bird's-eye-view" of the
whole code on the RHS.

I've never used it myself, but there's a couple of guys in the office
who do. I have to admit, this feature looks pretty neat.

Does Sublime have some sort of remote mode? We've got one guy who loves
it, but needs to work on a remote machine (i.e. in AWS). I got X11
working for him (he has a Mac desktop), so he can run Sublime on the AWS
Linux box and have it display on his Mac desktop, but that's less than
ideal.

 

[Cameron Simpson]

[ Digressing to tuning remote access. Sorry. - Cameron ]

| Does Sublime have some sort of remote mode? We've got one guy who loves
| it, but needs to work on a remote machine (i.e. in AWS). I got X11
| working for him (he has a Mac desktop), so he can run Sublime on the AWS
| Linux box and have it display on his Mac desktop, but that's less than
| ideal.

It's worth pointing out that, depending on the app, X11 can do a
fair bit of traffic. Particularly with more recent things on "rich"
widget libraries with animation or drag'n'drop, it can be quite
painful because the app's developed on someones local desktop where
latency is negligible.

Sometimes it is worth running a desktop local to the remote machine
(eg using vncserver) and operating it remotely via a viewer (eg a
vnc viewer). Although you're now throwign screen updates around as
bitmaps of some flavour, this can decouple you from vile spinning
progress icons and modal drag'n'drop stuff. (This also insulates
you against network drops; just reconnect the viewer, just like
screen or tmux do for terminals.)

Seamonkey, for example, is like molasses done directly with X11 from
a remote host. It used to be snappy, but widget library bling creep
has made it an exercise in pain.

Another alternative, better still if easy, is to mount the remote
system's files on your local machine and run the editor locally.
Snappy response, your native widget-set/look'n'feel, and saving a
file is normally pretty cheap even remotely; that would normally
be your main remote transaction under this model.

Cheers,

 

[Terry Reedy]

Like you never downloaded serials/keygens/patch/cracks for warez and
torrents websites.

Morality aside, why would I? Today I bought 8 games on GOG.com for about
$22 - drm and virus free and easy download and install. If I get 10
hours of fun from 2 of them, I'll be happy. This is not to mention free
Python and LibreOffice as my primary work programs - suppported by hg,
TortoiseHg, 7zip, and others.

 

[Îίκος Gr33k]

Στις 4/7/2013 10:59 πμ, ο/η Îίκος έγÏαψε:

Στις 4/7/2013 10:32 πμ, ο/η cutems93 έγÏαψε:
Download Sublime Text v3

Is a great editor

The only thing missing from this great editor is the ability to upload
your python scripts to a remote web server.

They should embed a plugin for that like Notepad's NPPFtp plugin.

Other that that its all complete, and it has help built-in system to
help you with the syntax of the commands as you write them.

 

[feedthetroll]

Am Donnerstag, 4. Juli 2013 11:14:38 UTC+2 schrieb Îίκος Gr33k:

...

If you guys want to use it i can send you a patch for it.
I know its illegal thing to say but it will help you use it without
buying it.

Am Freitag, 5. Juli 2013 09:41:39 UTC+2 schrieb Îίκος Gr33k:

[talkin about Sublime Text editor]
The only thing missing from this great editor is the ability to upload
your python scripts to a remote web server.
They should embed a plugin for that like Notepad's NPPFtp plugin.

Oh, I'm sure they would have time/money to do so, if more people payed the license fees.

 

[rusi]

Programmability comes to my mind, before anything else. I'd suggest
to find out about designs of Emacs and Vi(m).

There's one reason I prefer emacs -- and I guess some people prefer Idle --the interpreter and editor are tightly integrated.

This is not strictly in the class of editor-as-editor but editor as programming-in-the-tiny support.

That said it needs to be also remembered:
- needs some setup efforts for python
- key-bindings and terminology will seem weird to the younger generation

One expansion for EMACS is Editor for Middle Aged Computer Scientists -- soI am guessing if you're asking the question you dont qualify

If you get past these initial hurdles and also the initial programming hurdles to get to the point where you have the AHA moment -- programming is like art/poetry, you may want to look at emacs -> org-mode -> babel
which is the state-of-art system for what is called 'literate programming'
http://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/intro.html

[I am a medium-grade user of org-mode and completely noob at babel! ]

 

[Grant Edwards]

???????? 4/7/2013 9:40 ????, ??/?? Grant Edwards ????????????:

Like you never downloaded serials/keygens/patch/cracks for warez and
torrents websites.

No, not that I can recall.

 

[Cameron Simpson]

| On Thursday, July 4, 2013 1:37:10 PM UTC+5:30, Göktuğ Kayaalp wrote:
| > Programmability comes to my mind, before anything else. I'd suggest
| > to find out about designs of Emacs and Vi(m).
|
| There's one reason I prefer emacs -- and I guess some people
| prefer Idle -- the interpreter and editor are tightly integrated.

That is indeed a strength of emacs over vi.

For myself, I generally don't want to program my editor beyond writing
keyboard macros, and vim's programming interface has yet to attract me.

When I want to manipulate text beyond a simple macro I tend to write
a sed script. Or awk, or python in increasing complexity of task.

[...]
| One expansion for EMACS is Editor for Middle Aged Computer
| Scientists -- so I am guessing if you're asking the question you
| dont qualify

While I started with vi just slightly before encountering emacs
(mid-to-late 1980s, both), my main trouble with choosing emacs was
the heavy use of control keys. Vi's modal nature means that in
"edit" mode, all the keystrokes are available as edit controls.
Emacs' modeless nature means that all the edit controls must be
control-this and meta/escape-that.

For this reason, I often expand EMACS as Escape Meta Alt Control Shift.

I'm a vi user. Once I mastered "hit ESC by reflex when you pause
typing an insert" I was never confused above which mode I was in.

And now my fingers know vi.

Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson <[email protected]>

A novice of the temple once approached the Chief Priest with a question.

"Master, does Emacs have the Buddha nature?" the novice asked.

The Chief Priest had been in the temple for many years and could be relied
upon to know these things. He thought for several minutes before replying.

"I don't see why not. It's got bloody well everything else."

With that, the Chief Priest went to lunch. The novice suddenly achieved
enlightenment, several years later.

Commentary:

His Master is kind,
Answering his FAQ quickly,
With thought and sarcasm.

 

[Rustom Mody]

While I started with vi just slightly before encountering emacs
(mid-to-late 1980s, both), my main trouble with choosing emacs was
the heavy use of control keys. Vi's modal nature means that in
"edit" mode, all the keystrokes are available as edit controls.
Emacs' modeless nature means that all the edit controls must be
control-this and meta/escape-that.

For this reason, I often expand EMACS as Escape Meta Alt Control Shift.

Yes...
The fact that rms has crippling RSI should indicate that emacs' ergonomics
is not right.

I'm a vi user. Once I mastered "hit ESC by reflex when you pause
typing an insert" I was never confused above which mode I was in.

And now my fingers know vi.

Yes...
vi: (n) A program that has two modes, one in which it beeps and the other
in which it corrupts your file

Cheers,
--
Cameron Simpson <[email protected]>

A novice of the temple once approached the Chief Priest with a question.

"Master, does Emacs have the Buddha nature?" the novice asked.

The Chief Priest had been in the temple for many years and could be
relied
upon to know these things. He thought for several minutes before
replying.

"I don't see why not. It's got bloody well everything else."

With that, the Chief Priest went to lunch. The novice suddenly achieved
enlightenment, several years later.

Commentary:

His Master is kind,
Answering his FAQ quickly,
With thought and sarcasm.

Heard somewhere: Emacs is my operating system and linux is its device
driver.

No I dont belong to that camp -- Actually I am quite dissatisfied with
emacs nowadays... Keep trying eclipse and getting repulsed by the gorilla.

Philosophy being this: What functional programming is to program-semantics,
fast-branching (as in git) is to program-source[1]. To complete the
trinity, one needs semi-automated refactoring.
The first I can do in my sleep; the second still noob-status, the third yet
to start!

[1] Not necessarily source-code See
http://blog.vctr.me/posts/why-you-should-learn-git.html

 

[Roy Smith]

I'm a vi user. Once I mastered "hit ESC by reflex when you pause
typing an insert" I was never confused above which mode I was in.

And now my fingers know vi.

[/QUOTE]

All the vi you need to know:

<esc> : q ! <return>

 

[Joshua Landau]

All the vi you need to know:

<esc> : q ! <return>[/QUOTE]

I never got why Vi doesn't support Ctrl-C by default -- it's not like
it's a used key-combination and it would have helped me so many times
when I was younger.

:^C
Interrupt
:^C
Interrupt
:^C
Interrupt
:^C
Interrupt
:
At end-of-file
:
At end-of-file
:
At end-of-file
:
At end-of-file
:^C
Interrupt
:
At end-of-file
:^C
Interrupt
:
At end-of-file
:^C
Interrupt
:^C
Interrupt
:

 

[rusi]

I never got why Vi doesn't support Ctrl-C by default -- it's not like
it's a used key-combination and it would have helped me so many times
when I was younger.

Dunno what you are referring to.
Out here C-c gets vi out of insert mode
Second (onwards) and it prints
Type :quit<Enter> to exit Vim

 

[Joshua Landau]

Dunno what you are referring to.
Out here C-c gets vi out of insert mode
Second (onwards) and it prints
Type :quit<Enter> to exit Vim

I know how to quit Vi *now*, but when I didn't it was a pain. It's
easy to get lost in a program that doesn't accept the *standard
quitting key*.

The rest of my post was a demonstration of what my Vi sessions used to
look like. Note that Vi != Vim; Vim at least tells you what to do.

 

[Eric S. Johansson]

Yes...
The fact that rms has crippling RSI should indicate that emacs'
ergonomics is not right.

As someone crippled by Emacs ( actual cause not known), I should also
point out that RMS, instead of doing the responsible thing and using
speech recognition software, burns the hands of other human beings by
using them as biological speech recognition units.

Now for me, an important feature for editor is the ability to command it,
not by keystrokes but by function/method invocation. This is be the first
step to reducing the disasters caused by misrecognition events injecting
unintentional commands into an editor. For example, bring up a file in VI
in close your eyes and type some string like "save file" or "end of line".
What kind of damage do you get?

With an editor RPC, you can bypass all this damage. You turn off keystroke
input at the start of a recognition event and all keyboard queue data is
injected as characters. All commands are injected by the API.

There's a few other things, I need in a very tiny editor to help a part of
my accessibility problem. One of the ways I deal with speech recognition
user interfaces by creating tiny domain specific languages to solve a
problem. You can say them, they are resilient in the face of
misrecognition, edit them and you can replay them. Bunch of wins.

The tiny editor needs to use the right Windows edit control to work with
NaturallySpeaking, save data so that I never have to think about it. It's
always on disk, always safe. If I invoke a file by name, I get exactly one
instance. And last, I want the ability to filter the contents of the
editor through a bit of Python code so I can do transformations on opening
the file or writing the file.

Further down the road, instead of the classic syntax highlighting, I need
dynamic naming of features so that I can say things like "replace third
argument", "modify index" for format local times using pattern.

I will admit the last one is a bit of a cheat because that's a subset of
the domain specific notation I think that earlier. Not a solved problem

So important feature editor change depending on your perspective, or
should I say, state of impending disability. We all become disabled with
age, just some of us age much faster than the rest of the population

 

[jussij]

I am researching on editors for my own reference.

On the Windows platform there is the Zeus editor: http://www.zeusedit.com/python.html

It does the standard syntax highlighting, code folding and smarting indent etc etc.

It's also scriptable (in Python) making which makes it highly configurable.

The keyboard is fully configurable and my keyboard mapping of choice is Brief (there's an EMACS keyboard mapping but no vim mapping).

I couldn't live without the keyboard macro record and playback.

The automatic ctags also helps to navigate large code bases.

User defined templates help with common programming constructs like if, while, for etc.

I never was a big fan of code folding but have grow to use that feature a lot.

NOTE: I'm the author of Zeus, it is shareware, runs natively on the Windows platform and can run on Linux using Wine.

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

I couldn't live without the keyboard macro record and playback.

I used to work with a programmer who couldn't live without his insulin
injections.

 

[Skip Montanaro]

I couldn't live without the keyboard macro record and playback.

I used to work with a programmer who couldn't live without his insulin
injections.

Hyperbole aside, two of my most common "crutches" are Emacs macros and
bash history. Given how useful macros are, I find it very odd that
recent versions of GNU Emacs dispensed with the old key binding to C-x
c.

Skip

 

[Sivaram Neelakantan]

Hyperbole aside, two of my most common "crutches" are Emacs macros and
bash history. Given how useful macros are, I find it very odd that
recent versions of GNU Emacs dispensed with the old key binding to C-x
c.

Skip

Wasn't it C-x ( ? From the manual

In addition to the <F3> and <F4> commands described above, Emacs
also supports an older set of key bindings for defining and executing
keyboard macros. To begin a macro definition, type `C-x ('
(`kmacro-start-macro'); as with <F3>, a prefix argument appends this
definition to the last keyboard macro. To end a macro definition, type
`C-x )' (`kmacro-end-macro'). To execute the most recent macro, type
`C-x e' (`kmacro-end-and-call-macro'). If you enter `C-x e' while


sivaram
--