It does not look good for Target. Web Accessibility news

[Travis Newbury]

Example please.

Followed by a compulsory education program for the multitude of Flash
coders who don't appreciate this.

If Flash is so wonderful and so easy to produce, wwhy is so much of it
so bad?

Simple, flash started out as a graphic animation application, and has
evolved over the years into a powerful development environment. The
majority of the crappy flash is done by non-development people.

 

[Travis Newbury]

Isn't its programming language very similar to/the same as JavaScript?

It is as similar as C++ is to Javascript.

Does it leverage anything that can't be dreamed of with JS and HTML plus
SVG?

Yes. One simple example I can think of is a flash object opened in one
browser can talk to and use methods and data in another flash object
opened in a completely different brand browser, which can do the same
with a Flash object embedded in a desktop application. Any Flash
opened on a computer can talk to any other flash object on that same
computer (cross domain security is included)

 

[Travis Newbury]

5Kb eh? URL?

I created a Flash object (called GenericSlide) which will read XML (or
asp/php/pearl/ any server side process that will return XML)

It will dynamically load images and text, create animated bullets, and
can synchronize the bullets and images to MP3 audio.

It is slightly over your 5K limit weighing in at 5.02 KB (5,150
bytes) If I took out all the comments I would probably be less than
5k

There is no time line in the Flash (something you only see when the
flash developer is a real programmer) Here is the Actionscript that
runs it:

// The Generic Slide
/* Slide Layout
<generic>
<slide>
<slide_number>6</slide_number>
<title>Title of the Slide</title>
<image_url></image_url>
<slide_audio_url></slide_audio_url>
<bullet_text>
<text_width></text_width>
<bullet_url></bullet_url>
<text_url></text_url>
<content></content>
<fade_in_time></fade_in_time>
</bullet_text>
</slide>
</genric>
*/
var PlayerSound:Sound = new Sound();
var BulletHolder;
var ThisSlide = _root.CurrentSlide;
var MyInterval:Object = new Object();
var MyXML:GenericXML = new GenericXML();
var SlideHolder:GenericXML = new GenericXML();
var TimingArray:Array = new Array();

///////////////////////
// Remove this
//var CurrentSlide = 1;
///////////////////////

MyXML.ignoreWhite = true;
MyXML.onLoad = function(success){
this.setXML();
var x:Number = 0;
var SlideArray:Array = new Array();
//var CurrentSlide = _root.CurrentSlide;
var CurrentSlide = 5;
// Now search for this record
this.SearchString = "/generic/slide";
SlideArray = this.GetDataArray();
// Now go through all the slides and find the one where the slide
number = the CurrentSlide
for(x=0;x<SlideArray.length;x++){
SlideHolder.parseXML(SlideArray[x]);
SlideHolder.SearchString = "/slide/slide_number";
if(SlideHolder.GetData(0) == String(_root.CurrentSlide))
break;
}
// Ok we are there now and we have the right one
CreateSlide(SlideHolder);
}
function CreateSlide(MySlide){
// first lets make the background
this.createEmptyMovieClip("Background",this.getNextHighestDepth());
SlideHolder.SetXML();
SlideHolder.SearchString = "/slide/image_url";
Background.loadMovie(SlideHolder.GetData(0));

// the sound
PlayerSound.onLoad = function(success){
PlayerSound.start(0);
}
SlideHolder.ReloadXML();
SlideHolder.SearchString = "slide/slide_audio_url";
PlayerSound.loadSound(SlideHolder.GetData(0));

// the title text
SlideHolder.ReloadXML();
SlideHolder.SearchString="slide/slide_title";
this.createTextField("my_txt", this.getNextHighestDepth(),
30,30,600,75);
my_txt.multiline = true;
my_txt.wordWrap = true;
var my_fmt:TextFormat = new TextFormat();
my_fmt.color = 0x000000;
my_fmt.font = "Arial";
my_fmt.size=24;
my_fmt.bold = true;
my_txt.text = SlideHolder.GetData(0);
my_txt.setTextFormat(my_fmt);

// Ok now we create the bullets
SlideHolder.ReloadXML();
SlideHolder.SearchString = "slide/bullet_text/content";
for(x=0;x<SlideHolder.GetSize();x++){
BulletHolder = SlideHolder.GetData(x);
this.createTextField("my_txt" + x, this.getNextHighestDepth(), 30,
(50*(x+1)+50),500,50);
eval("my_txt" + x).multiline = true;
eval("my_txt" + x).wordWrap = true;
var my_fmt:TextFormat = new TextFormat();
my_fmt.color = 0x000000;
my_fmt.font = "Arial";
my_fmt.size=18;
my_fmt.bold = true;
my_fmt.bullet = true;
eval("my_txt" + x).text = BulletHolder;
eval("my_txt" + x).setTextFormat(my_fmt);
eval("my_txt" + x)._visible = false;
}
// Get the timing crap
SlideHolder.ReloadXML();
SlideHolder.SearchString = "slide/bullet_text/fade_in_time";
for(x=0;x<SlideHolder.GetSize();x++){
TimingArray.push(SlideHolder.GetData(x))
}
// Start the audio loop
this.onEnterFrame = FadeLoop;
//MyInterval = setInterval(FadeLoop,500);
}

function FadeLoop(){
var y:Number = 0;
for(y=0;y<TimingArray.length;y++){
if(Math.round(PlayerSound.position)/1000 > Number(TimingArray[y])){
eval("my_txt" + y)._visible = true;
}
}
}

MyXML.load("GenericSlide.xml");

-----------------------------------
GenericXML is an AS class I I wrote that parses XML. (AS3 now makes
it obsolete.)

I also wrote a flash based learning management system system for
Siemens that weighs in at an astounding 87K which maintains one
Siemens operating companies online courses, students, teachers, and
scheduling.

I will be more than happy to send you the GenericSlide's SWF and the
FLA if you want it. So spacegirl is correct, flash is very light
weight in the hands of someone that knows how to use it. BUT it takes
good design, which is something that has been lacking in the Flash
development community for years. But is now starting to rear its
head.

 

[Mark Goodge]

I think it comes down to what you want to do with the web. If one
uses the web for research and purchasing something then I can see
where you might want to have a very vanilla mostly text kind of web.
But if you like to have fun on the web, then you might want all the
pizazz. the good thing about the latter is that both types of sites
work for you.

Another thing to consider is that there are, essentially, two ways of
making money on the web: selling things directly to customers and
selling advertising. As you've already pointed out, people who buy
things tend to like simpler, more textually-based websites. And the
most profitable forms of advertising at the moment are the contextual
systems such as Google Adsense and Overture. These only work
effectively on text-based websites.

I like pizazz

As a website operator, I like making money. I like making money more
than I like pizazz. So I'll stick with primarily textual sites.

That's not to say that Flash is never appropriate. Within an otherwise
text-based site, Flash is a good mechanism for delivering video
content and will often be the best choice for such purposes. Flash is
also the only serious player in town for interactive web-based games
that behave as if they were running on the client's own computer[1]
rather than accessed via the web. And the biggie loved of graphic
designers, the entirely Flash-based website, can even be appropriate
in cases where the sole purpose is to entertain or advertise, such as
the website of a movie or supporting an advertising campaign, and you
don't care about the fact that the site will never be an income
generator.

When done well, entirely Flash-based sites can be very impressive
indeed - all the pizazz you could ever want. But it's important to
remember that one of the reason these sites are impressive, and win
awards, is because they are a departure from the norm. They bear as
much relationship to everyday web design as my grandfather's prize
marrows do to supermarket greengroceries. Few things are more
impressive than an award-winning Flash-based website. But few things
are more ludicrous than an attempt to use those techniques on an
ecommerce operation. Anyone else remember the original boo.com?

[1] Well, actually, they are, that's how Flash works.

Mark

 

[Harlan Messinger]

Ahh yes, very true. I think it will be another year or three though
before people start browsing the web on their mobile devices
frequently as the prices will need to come down a bit, a bit like what
happend here in Australia when broadband internet was introduced.

I don't know about Australia, but I use my Treo for Internet access
every day, for a monthly flat rate.

 

[dorayme]

"Globally, just over one-fourth (28%) of mobile phone owners worldwide
have browsed the Internet on a wireless handset, up slightly from 25%
at the end 2004.

How come I don't know a single person who does this? Sure, be as
cruel as you like... <g>

 

[dorayme]

Example please.

Followed by a compulsory education program for the multitude of Flash
coders who don't appreciate this.


If Flash is so wonderful and so easy to produce, wwhy is so much of it
so bad?

Dangerous question Andy. If I recall a while back, everyone (not
me) here was saying how easy it was to write good html/css. But
talk about bad non-Flash websites everywhere!

 

[dorayme]

What the plugin or the $$$$ development app?

Again, we keep hearing about these wonderful, accessible, low-bandwidth
flash sites but no examples... Sounds like a Unicorn hunt.

I do recall someone (I think it might have been Bergamot) putting
a similar and very reasonable question to old Travis a while
back. Travis disappeared for a while, it was the most silent I
have ever heard him be. I think he might have hurried to a
holiday destination the furthest from any computer likely to have
a connection to a ng.

 

[dorayme]

And we all know how much fun an all text website can be...

Do we?

 

[SpaceGirl]

I do recall someone (I think it might have been Bergamot) putting
a similar and very reasonable question to old Travis a while
back. Travis disappeared for a while, it was the most silent I
have ever heard him be. I think he might have hurried to a
holiday destination the furthest from any computer likely to have
a connection to a ng.

I'll try post some examples here tomorrow.

--

x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

http://www.northleithmill.com

-.-

Kammy has a new home: http://www.bitesizedjapan.com

 

[Ben C]

It is as similar as C++ is to Javascript.

No, it's much more similar than that.

If I understood SpaceGirl it's a superset of ECMA-262 (which _is_
JavaScript) with some new bits bolted on recently that look a bit like
Java.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActionScript:

With ActionScript 2.0, developers could constrain variables to a
specific type by adding a type annotation so that type mismatch
errors could be found at compile-time. ActionScript 2.0 also
introduced class-based inheritance syntax so that developers could
create classes and interfaces, much as they would in class-based
languages such as Java and C++. This version conformed partially to
the ECMAScript Fourth Edition draft specification.

C++ is quite a bit different: it's a machine-oriented language with
mostly value semantics and manual storage management.

 

[Adrienne Boswell]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme

How come I don't know a single person who does this? Sure, be as
cruel as you like... <g>

You know me (sort of), and I recently had to do this when I was visiting
friends in Castaic (and had to wipe out their computer). I was
attempting to get the train schedule - I could get it, but it was very
hard to read (the schedule is just badly done, no one but the folks at
Metrolink seem to understand it). I use the Internet on my phone to get
phone numbers instead of calling 411 and getting charged some ridiculous
amount. It's not something that I would want to do all the time.


On a brighter note - the boss called me (whilst on vacation) and
announced that everyone was going to be surfing on their phone, and so I
had to do whatever I could to get the site ready for phones. I called
her back in a few minutes and told her it already was. Then I told her
this was one of the reasons I was such a B---H about valid, semantic
code, and NOT opening off site links in new windows. I said "Wha da ya
gonna do, open up a new PHONE?" Smile. Now, I just have to get her
weaned off IE6.

 

[dorayme]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme



On a brighter note - the boss called me (whilst on vacation) and
announced that everyone was going to be surfing on their phone, and so I
had to do whatever I could to get the site ready for phones. I called
her back in a few minutes and told her it already was. Then I told her
this was one of the reasons I was such a B---H about valid, semantic
code, and NOT opening off site links in new windows. I said "Wha da ya
gonna do, open up a new PHONE?" Smile. Now, I just have to get her
weaned off IE6.

Try getting her on IE7 as a stepping? No, maybe not, it may seem
even better than IE6 to her and that will that!

Here in Australia, it is not cheap to enable internet on the
mobile phone. I have an internet capable phone but cannot think
of any reason to get it online. I even prefer texting people via
my desktop rather than fiddle with the tiny buttons.

I did load some bits of sites of my own via the usb for off line
viewing and it sort of works but is a very poor experience. I
guess I have a crappy phone. But what you are saying does reminds
me to look into things a bit. But I just don't believe the 28%
figure and I don't know what it means anyway, how the
measurements are made. I suspect there is a lot of hollowness in
the interpretation.

 

[Phil Payne]

Well, Search engines and Flash play fine together now, and slow
connections have nothing to do with well designed flash. So your
statement shows your ignorance.

Not my statement - note the quotes. It's from Google's Quality
Guidelines.

 

[Karl Groves]

How come I don't know a single person who does this?

I don't, either. Further, I think "...have browsed the Internet..." is
probably a bit deceiving. As soon as I found out my phone could access the
web, I tried it. It was so painful an experience, I've never done it
again.

 

[Harlan Messinger]

I don't, either. Further, I think "...have browsed the Internet..." is
probably a bit deceiving. As soon as I found out my phone could access the
web, I tried it. It was so painful an experience, I've never done it
again.

Certainly *plenty* of people are getting e-mail by phone. That *is* the
Internet, you know. When you say "browse the Internet", you're really
referring specifically to the Web.

It's painful to access many sites, it's true. But Google is fine. Some
sites have good mobile versions--Yahoo and the Washington Post, for
example. The downloadable version of Google Maps for Windows Mobile,
which pulls live data from the Internet, works really nicely on the
Treo. Wikipedia--with several skins available, I'm surprised one hasn't
been designed specifically for handheld devices, but in any event it
works well in IE on Windows Mobile when I set it to use One Column mode.
So I never have to wait till I get home or to the office to look stuff up.

 

[Phil Payne]

So I never have to wait till I get home or to the office to look stuff up.

Mobile phones have to be switched off in our local pub quiz. Flying
thumbs looking up Wikipedia.

 

[NotMe]

"Travis Newbury"

| You know, if they put a cap on the amount of money trial lawyers could
| make this lawsuit (as well as thousands of others) would disappear in
| about a second.
|
| Or better yet, how about if you sue someone and lose then both the
| plaintiff and the lawyer are equally responsible for the defendant's
| legal fees, expenses, and a little punitive money. THAT would put an
| end to some of this bullshit.

Putting caps and limits on awards is simply another way to deny access to
the courts.

The insurance industry, especially the health and disability, use the caps
and
limits of ERISA to deny coverage and payment of benefits.

Limiting legal judgment pay out cuts the ability of many to have fair
representation. High cost courts with limited reimbursement for the cost of
the action effective limits access to the courts and by extension justice to
those that have money, i.e. the rich.

For examples do a goodle search on ERISA, disability and medical. Might
also find some info on the practice of 'running the meter.'

Interesting, the B2B legal action is increasing where as the P2B legal
actions are decreasing (a trend over the past 10-15 years) yet the TORT
reform is toward stopping P2B.

 

[Jerry Stuckle]

Certainly *plenty* of people are getting e-mail by phone. That *is* the
Internet, you know. When you say "browse the Internet", you're really
referring specifically to the Web.

Text messaging is not email. A lot of people I know use their phone for
text messaging. No one uses it for email. Those who need a mobile
email device (like my wife) have a blackberry.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
(e-mail address removed)
==================

 

[Harlan Messinger]

In a strictly legal sense this is really nothing. All it means is
that they will go to trial. But Target will end up losing in the
socialistic courts of California, and we will move one step closer to
a bland vanilla world where there is no incentive to draw with color.

Since you can have an accessible website without discarding the arsenal
of design techniques available to make web browsing a rich experience,
your concern is groundless.

You know, if they put a cap on the amount of money trial lawyers could
make this lawsuit (as well as thousands of others) would disappear in
about a second.

Or better yet, how about if you sue someone and lose then both the
plaintiff and the lawyer are equally responsible for the defendant's
leagal fees, expenses, and a little punitive money.

That makes sense for cases that are outrageous, where a judge would hold
that a competent attorney should have known that the case was without
merit. But there isn't any justification for scaring people from filing
lawsuits in good faith. You can't *know* in advance that you'll win your
case.