J2ME, MIDP 2.0 and detecting phone number

Discussion in 'Java' started by Vagif Abilov, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. Vagif Abilov

    Vagif Abilov Guest

    Hello,

    We need to provide access to our services from the mobile phone, so we tried
    J2ME and Java applications (Midlets) for mobile phones.
    There's one thing we can't figure out: is there any generic way to detect
    mobile phone subscriber's number? It does not look so. How then this task is
    usually approached? Very often it is necessary to know the MSN (for billing
    purposes for example), so I believe this must be a common problem.

    Thanks in advance

    Vagif Abilov
     
    Vagif Abilov, Nov 25, 2003
    #1
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  2. Vagif Abilov wrote:

    > We need to provide access to our services from the mobile phone, so we
    > tried J2ME and Java applications (Midlets) for mobile phones.
    > There's one thing we can't figure out: is there any generic way to detect
    > mobile phone subscriber's number?


    No. There are no APIs in the MIDP to determine the phone number since not
    all MIDs are mobile phones.

    > It does not look so. How then this task
    > is usually approached? Very often it is necessary to know the MSN (for
    > billing purposes for example), so I believe this must be a common problem.


    You could have the user enter their phone number in a form and store it
    locally.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <>
    Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Darryl L. Pierce, Nov 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. Vagif Abilov

    Vagif Abilov Guest

    Thanks,

    The problem that to let user enter phone number does not really work if the
    number is used in billing purposes. People can enter other people's number,
    and they can also swap SIM cards after the number is stored. Too bad.

    Best regards
    Vagif


    "Darryl L. Pierce" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Vagif Abilov wrote:
    >
    > > We need to provide access to our services from the mobile phone, so we
    > > tried J2ME and Java applications (Midlets) for mobile phones.
    > > There's one thing we can't figure out: is there any generic way to

    detect
    > > mobile phone subscriber's number?

    >
    > No. There are no APIs in the MIDP to determine the phone number since not
    > all MIDs are mobile phones.
    >
    > > It does not look so. How then this task
    > > is usually approached? Very often it is necessary to know the MSN (for
    > > billing purposes for example), so I believe this must be a common

    problem.
    >
    > You could have the user enter their phone number in a form and store it
    > locally.
    >
    > --
    > Darryl L. Pierce <>
    > Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    > "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Vagif Abilov, Nov 26, 2003
    #3
  4. Vagif Abilov wrote:

    > The problem that to let user enter phone number does not really work if
    > the number is used in billing purposes. People can enter other people's
    > number, and they can also swap SIM cards after the number is stored. Too
    > bad.


    Then you could issue them a key and let that be the way by which you
    identify their device.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <>
    Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Darryl L. Pierce, Nov 26, 2003
    #4
  5. Vagif Abilov wrote:

    > AFAIK issuing a key is a part of PKI support that MIDP 2.0 has (was not
    > possible in MIDP 1.0). Is this what you meant?


    No. I meant issue them a unique identifier (a key) that they need to use in
    order to use your application.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <>
    Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Darryl L. Pierce, Nov 26, 2003
    #5
  6. Vagif Abilov

    Vagif Abilov Guest

    AFAIK issuing a key is a part of PKI support that MIDP 2.0 has (was not
    possible in MIDP 1.0). Is this what you meant?

    Thank you

    Vagif


    "Darryl L. Pierce" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Vagif Abilov wrote:
    >
    > > The problem that to let user enter phone number does not really work if
    > > the number is used in billing purposes. People can enter other people's
    > > number, and they can also swap SIM cards after the number is stored. Too
    > > bad.

    >
    > Then you could issue them a key and let that be the way by which you
    > identify their device.
    >
    > --
    > Darryl L. Pierce <>
    > Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    > "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Vagif Abilov, Nov 26, 2003
    #6
  7. Vagif Abilov

    Anton Spaans Guest

    One possible key can be the phone's IMEI number (serial number).
    This is available on GSM phones and uniquely identifies the phone.
    For TDMA/CDMA etc. phones, i don't know how to get this number...

    -- Anton.

    "Vagif Abilov" <> wrote in message
    news:vu2xb.1584$...
    > AFAIK issuing a key is a part of PKI support that MIDP 2.0 has (was not
    > possible in MIDP 1.0). Is this what you meant?
    >
    > Thank you
    >
    > Vagif
    >
    >
    > "Darryl L. Pierce" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Vagif Abilov wrote:
    > >
    > > > The problem that to let user enter phone number does not really work

    if
    > > > the number is used in billing purposes. People can enter other

    people's
    > > > number, and they can also swap SIM cards after the number is stored.

    Too
    > > > bad.

    > >
    > > Then you could issue them a key and let that be the way by which you
    > > identify their device.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Darryl L. Pierce <>
    > > Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    > > "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"

    >
    >
     
    Anton Spaans, Nov 26, 2003
    #7
  8. Vagif Abilov

    Tim Ward Guest

    "Anton Spaans" <aspaans at(noSPAM) smarttime dot(noSPAM) com> wrote in
    message news:...
    > One possible key can be the phone's IMEI number (serial number).
    > This is available on GSM phones and uniquely identifies the phone.


    The phone, not the user. Plus in many phones the IMEI is not hard-wired as
    required by the GSM standards but can be reprogrammed. So it can't even
    reliably do the one thing you might have thought it useful for, ie identify
    stolen phones.

    --
    Tim Ward
    Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
     
    Tim Ward, Nov 26, 2003
    #8
  9. Vagif Abilov

    Anton Spaans Guest

    Many software programs for phones are sold using the phone's IMEI number. I
    know, it is possible to reprogram the IMEI, but it is illegal. It is
    possible to remove your car's identifcation (VIN) number as well....

    If the worry is that a phone may get stolen, then you need to require a
    login from the user every time (s)he needs to access the services you sell,
    because you can't store login-info (in case it gets stolen).
    Maybe a login-id is the safest (note that many phones do not support secure
    connections (e.g. https))....

    -- Anton

    "Tim Ward" <> wrote in message
    news:bq2gm9$1td1tf$-berlin.de...
    > "Anton Spaans" <aspaans at(noSPAM) smarttime dot(noSPAM) com> wrote in
    > message news:...
    > > One possible key can be the phone's IMEI number (serial number).
    > > This is available on GSM phones and uniquely identifies the phone.

    >
    > The phone, not the user. Plus in many phones the IMEI is not hard-wired as
    > required by the GSM standards but can be reprogrammed. So it can't even
    > reliably do the one thing you might have thought it useful for, ie

    identify
    > stolen phones.
    >
    > --
    > Tim Ward
    > Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
    >
    >
     
    Anton Spaans, Nov 26, 2003
    #9
  10. Vagif Abilov

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Darryl L. Pierce <> wrote or quoted:
    > Vagif Abilov wrote:


    >> We need to provide access to our services from the mobile phone, so we
    >> tried J2ME and Java applications (Midlets) for mobile phones.
    >> There's one thing we can't figure out: is there any generic way to detect
    >> mobile phone subscriber's number?

    >
    > No. There are no APIs in the MIDP to determine the phone number since not
    > all MIDs are mobile phones.


    Not all MIDP devices have colour screens - and yet there is an API for
    dealing with them.

    I suspect there is a sensible reason for MIDP devices not giving out
    their phone numbers to unsigned MIDlets on an ad-hoc basis, though:
    phone numbers are personal information.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
     
    Tim Tyler, Nov 27, 2003
    #10
  11. "Anton Spaans" <aspaans at(noSPAM) smarttime dot(noSPAM) com> wrote:

    > One possible key can be the phone's IMEI number (serial number).
    > This is available on GSM phones and uniquely identifies the phone.


    Not from the MIDP. The user would have to manually enter the IMEI number.

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <>
    Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Darryl L. Pierce, Nov 29, 2003
    #11
  12. Tim Tyler wrote:

    >>> We need to provide access to our services from the mobile phone, so we
    >>> tried J2ME and Java applications (Midlets) for mobile phones.
    >>> There's one thing we can't figure out: is there any generic way to
    >>> detect mobile phone subscriber's number?

    >>
    >> No. There are no APIs in the MIDP to determine the phone number since not
    >> all MIDs are mobile phones.

    >
    > Not all MIDP devices have colour screens - and yet there is an API for
    > dealing with them.


    No, but most of them do, so your point is non sequitor.. The MIDP is
    intended as the foundation on which many profiles will be implemented.
    Having the MIDP be a catch-all for such things as phone numbers from a
    mobile is unnecessary; other profile can be implemented to do that.

    > I suspect there is a sensible reason for MIDP devices not giving out
    > their phone numbers to unsigned MIDlets on an ad-hoc basis, though:
    > phone numbers are personal information.


    And the MIDP is not intended to be implemented only on mobiles. When
    writing an application for a router, of what purpose would such an API
    for fetching the mobile number be?

    The point is, there are some APIs that would make no sense on a headless
    device, such as the gaming APIs. But, those are there since they have
    an immediate need and do make sense on other non-mobile devices (though
    not on all platforms where the MIDP will be implemented). Something like
    an API to retrieve a mobile's number makes no sense *except* on a single
    device type, a mobile. What's your iPAQ's mobile number? Your router's?
    See my point?

    --
    Darryl L. Pierce <>
    Visit the Infobahn Offramp - <http://mypage.org/mcpierce>
    "What do you care what other people think, Mr. Feynman?"
     
    Darryl L. Pierce, Nov 30, 2003
    #12
  13. Vagif Abilov

    ZMMmike

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1
    I know this thread is old, but here goes. I have a solution for this. It is in the testing process right now. Our concern for this is slightly different than for yours.

    We encode (using a simple cipher like 0="r", 1="W", etc) into a class in the jar the phone number. This is done with a php script calling a shell script. We then create a new jar (and jad) and give them a link to it so they can download the application catered to their phone. The unique identifier in the filename is the first six characters of their password hash.

    The reason we wanted the application to know what the phone number was so that we can track the information sent to that device. If the phone was stolen, the thief can't steal money or charge the original user for stuff.
     
    ZMMmike, Aug 21, 2006
    #13
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