New window with no buttons

[Whitecrest]

i don't see why annoying the shit out of someone cant be a legitimate
use of popups.

I don't think it annoys the "shit" out of people. Maybe the be-jesus,
or the hell out of someone, but not the shit.

And just what the hell does this have to do with sex?

 

[brucie]

in post: <

I don't think it annoys the "shit" out of people. Maybe the be-jesus,
or the hell out of someone, but not the shit.

you've obviously never looked under my chair.

And just what the hell does this have to do with sex?

coprophilia

 

[Whitecrest]

you've obviously never looked under my chair.

And I truly believe that is a GOOD thing I have never looked that...

coprophilia

Ha, porn lite....

 

[Ramen Junkie]

No it is understanding Marketing and consumers that you have a problem
with.

One thing I've learned over the years is that Marketing usually has no idea
what it's doing.

 

[Karl Groves]

Doesn't make it a bad idea either.

Nice way to dodge my post.
Here it is again for you:
Perhaps you have a comprehension problem. I said, "Site sources of real
studies with real consumers."
Just because some idiot in senior management at a corporation makes the
decision to put shite on his website doesn't make it a good idea.

When you've seen videos of people in usability studies become disoriented
(like I have seen) when a new window opens, you can speak on the subject.
Until then you're just talking out of your ass.

Do you have sources? It is a simple "yes" or "no" question.


-Karl

 

[Whitecrest]

One thing I've learned over the years is that Marketing usually has no idea
what it's doing.

See you learned wrong again.

 

[Whitecrest]

Nice way to dodge my post.
Here it is again for you:

Here let me say this again using smaller words...

Any source I give you, you will say is not a good source. So I give you
real world examples. You didn't like that. Gee.. shocker there...

 

[Whitecrest]

Just because some idiot in senior management at a corporation makes the
decision to put shite on his website doesn't make it a good idea.

(your repeating yourself, that is a bad sign)

 

[Karl Groves]

Here let me say this again using smaller words...

Any source I give you, you will say is not a good source. So I give you
real world examples. You didn't like that. Gee.. shocker there...

What you do for a living: Work for un-named clients in the "music business"
What I do for a living: Work for a company that does usability work for
places like Nextel, National Cancer Institute, Geico, AOL, IBM, US Army.

What you do for fun: proselytize about how much you know about "marketing"
What I do for fun: read usability studies. I have a stack of them 8-inches
high right now.

Who your colleagues are: other morons who think that they can *guess* about
what users like.
Who my colleagues are: people who actually *test* to see what users like.

Here's a direct cut & paste from an e-mail I received from a friend at
Dartmouth:
I have been doing some usability testing for a local hospital and we have
been fortunate to have participants with no familiarity with the web all the
way to self-described experts. We tested pages where external links opened
in a new window and pages where external links opened in the same window.
Nobody had trouble navigating when links opened in the same window. Many
people had trouble navigating when links opened in a new window.


Here are some other observations from these sessions:

-Most everyone used the back button to navigate the site and not the site
navigation links.

-Many people didn't notice when a new window opened, even when the page
explicitly indicated that links would open in a new window.

-Many people were unable to get back to the main site when a new window
opened because the back button did not work.



I have long thought that people get disoriented when following links and
that I, as the designer, had to build in ways to help people keep their
bearings. So I've done the javascript popups and the target="whatever". But
from watching people work with the web I am starting to think that people
don't really notice when they go from one site to another, and that they
also don't really care. They are questing for information and don't much
care where they get it. The damage done by trying to be helpful and impose
"context" is much greater than that done by leaving people to make their own
way.



The browser allows people to open links in a new window, as it allows then
to control type size and window width. I think this is another one of those
instances where we need to let go and give control to users.



[Name Protected],

Dartmouth College


-Karl

 

[Noozer]

No they aren't.

Yes they are...

You have ONE browser window. Use it wisely.

 

[Whitecrest]

What you do for a living: Work for un-named clients in the "music business"

No actually I am the co-owner of streaming media company in Atlanta.
The entertainment stuff is for fun on the side, but because of some good
breaks, will probably go full time later this year.

What you do for fun: proselytize about how much you know about "marketing"

Actually for fun I write and produce music. (Here are the names you were
looking for.)

I co-wrote and arranged the national Toys for Tots theme with Dustin
Wilkes (www.dustinlutherwilkes.com) Here is the original
www.placemedia.com/songs/t4t_original.mp3. We re-arranged and mastered
it at Andy Belling's (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0068999/) Studio in LA
(http://www.morbromusic.com) Here is the completed song,
www.placemedia.com/songs/toys192.mp3

Additionally I wrote jingles for Colt, and the Georgia Games Commission
(www.placemedia.com/songs/ga_games.mp3 for the piano rough),
Webentations.com (watch either of their on-demand demos' the music is
during the flash slide. (Sorry it is a pop up you won't like that), I
also work with the Georgia Country Music Hall of Fame. (Specifically,
Fiddling John Productions)

I am currently re-working a Christmas tune (you can hear the rough at
www.placemedia.com/songs/xmas.mp3) which will be one of the tracks on a
Country Christmas compilation CD produced by Harry Arends (Disney)
(http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0034314/). Sorry I do not know the artist
that will be singing the song yet.

I may also be working with Lee Lessack (producer of the worlds greatest
Magic Show, http://www.saharavegas.com/shows/wgms.html) later this
summer (in a project related to the Harry Arends project)

That's what I do for fun.

What I do for fun: read usability studies. I have a stack of them 8-inches
high right now.

You badly need a life if that is what you do for fun...

 

[Whitecrest]

Yes they are...

No they aren't
(You do realize this could go on for ever...)

 

[Neal]

Again I say, no matter what example I give, you will not think it is a
good one, so it is moot.

So you admit you cannot prove your assertion.

 

[Noozer]

No they aren't
(You do realize this could go on for ever...)

Not when you clip out the message.

 

[Toby A Inkster]

Consumers can easily distinguish between a pop-up ad, and pop-up content.

Not if they close the popup before the content has finished loading.

 

[Whitecrest]

So you admit you cannot prove your assertion.

I can only admit that I could not give any proof that you would accept
because you have blinders on when it comes to the things that the web
can be used for.

 

[Whitecrest]

Not when you clip out the message.

The point is, it is personal opinion. You keep missing that.

 

[Whitecrest]

Not if they close the popup before the content has finished loading.

Sure they can. I use google pop-up blocker. I know every single time a
pop-up is attempted. If I press a link, or a button and nothing
happens, but the "blocked" counter goes up. I get to say to myself
"Hey, I just blocked a pop-up, but it happened at the exact same time I
pressed that link. I bet that pop-up windows was for the content I
wanted." So I press the <ctrl> key, and the link or button again, and I
allow it.

If you go to a photo site, and you press a thumbnail, and a pop-up is
blocked, do you say "damn those pop-up ads!" No, unless you are retarded
(ok mentally challenged for the PC out there) you know exactly what the
pop-up was for. And you allow it.

That is why virtually ALL pop-up blockers let you stop blocking specific
sites, or they have a "let this one through" options like pressing the
<ctrl> key. I have a pop up blocker on all the time. But I still can
view any pop up window I want, any time I want to with no effort at all.

Pop-up windows, frames, flash, javascript navigation, multimedia, and
all the other "bad things" have a legitimate uses on the web.

 

[Karl Groves]

business"
No actually I am the co-owner of streaming media company in Atlanta.
The entertainment stuff is for fun on the side, but because of some good
breaks, will probably go full time later this year.

In other words, you have no professional experience creating websites and
need to STFU about what the user wants.
Plain and simple.

-Karl

 

[Whitecrest]

In other words, you have no professional experience creating websites and
need to STFU about what the user wants.
Plain and simple.

You didn't ask that, you asked me what I do for a living now. Prior to
owning the company I was the senior web developer for Headhunter.net
(now careerbuilder.com) and before that, I was the tech lead for the
MCI/Worldcom website (corporate sales) So I guess you can shut the ****
up. (didn't feel like using the letters)

You need to learn how to ask the right question.