Parallel text solutions?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Andrew, Jul 24, 2006.

  1. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    Hi,

    I was hoping for some comment on work I have started with (mostly)
    parallel text:

    http://www.andrews-corner.org/greek/greek_online.html

    I have used two left floated divs, both containg preformatted text to
    keep the content parallel at a relatively conservative screen size.
    There is however a vertical displacement with a smalerl window. (I
    think is perhaps not all that disastrous: both texts are still
    presented, I will simply not mark it as 'Parallel Text' :)

    I am a little puzzled as to why I cannot get borders to show on these
    floated elements?

    Any comments will be gratefully received,

    Andrew.
    --

    Andrew
    http://www.andrews-corner.org/
     
    Andrew, Jul 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Andrew

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Andrew <sorry.no.email@post_NG.com> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I was hoping for some comment on work I have started with (mostly)
    > parallel text:
    >
    > http://www.andrews-corner.org/greek/greek_online.html
    >
    > I have used two left floated divs, both containg preformatted text to
    > keep the content parallel at a relatively conservative screen size.
    > There is however a vertical displacement with a smalerl window. (I
    > think is perhaps not all that disastrous: both texts are still
    > presented, I will simply not mark it as 'Parallel Text' :)
    >
    > I am a little puzzled as to why I cannot get borders to show on these
    > floated elements?
    >
    > Any comments will be gratefully received,
    >


    This is starting to get it:

    #greekverseL {
    margin:0;
    float: left;
    width: 40%;
    padding-left: .5em;
    padding-right: 1em;
    border:1px #ccc solid;
    }
    pre.greekverseL {
    font-size:100%;
    font-family: "New Athena Unicode", Gentium, "Palatino Linotype",
    "Lucida Grande", Galilee, "Arial Unicode MS", sans-serif;
    line-height: 2em;

    }

    #greekverseR {
    margin:0 0 0 50%;
    padding-left: .5em;
    width: 40%;
    }

    pre.greekverseR {
    font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times,
    serif;
    line-height: 2em;
    }

    It looks too complicated for me, your code, I would not use the
    pre stuff but maybe you know better...You seem not to actually
    set borders. With floats, margins are important. Take a look and
    maybe play further.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:15:16 +1000, dorayme
    <> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Andrew <sorry.no.email@post_NG.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I was hoping for some comment on work I have started with (mostly)
    >> parallel text:
    >>
    >> http://www.andrews-corner.org/greek/greek_online.html
    >>
    >> I have used two left floated divs, both containg preformatted text to
    >> keep the content parallel at a relatively conservative screen size.
    >> There is however a vertical displacement with a smalerl window. (I
    >> think is perhaps not all that disastrous: both texts are still
    >> presented, I will simply not mark it as 'Parallel Text' :)
    >>
    >> I am a little puzzled as to why I cannot get borders to show on these
    >> floated elements?
    >>
    >> Any comments will be gratefully received,
    >>

    >
    >This is starting to get it:
    >
    >#greekverseL {
    >margin:0;
    >float: left;
    >width: 40%;
    >padding-left: .5em;
    >padding-right: 1em;
    >border:1px #ccc solid;
    >}
    >pre.greekverseL {
    > font-size:100%;
    > font-family: "New Athena Unicode", Gentium, "Palatino Linotype",
    >"Lucida Grande", Galilee, "Arial Unicode MS", sans-serif;
    > line-height: 2em;
    >
    > }
    >
    >#greekverseR {
    >margin:0 0 0 50%;
    >padding-left: .5em;
    >width: 40%;
    > }
    >
    >pre.greekverseR {
    >font-family: "Trebuchet MS", Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times,
    >serif;
    >line-height: 2em;
    >}
    >
    >It looks too complicated for me, your code, I would not use the
    >pre stuff but maybe you know better...You seem not to actually
    >set borders. With floats, margins are important. Take a look and
    >maybe play further.


    Hi Dorayme,

    Thanks again for your suggestions which as always have been very
    instructive. I have incorporated (quickly) some of your suggestions
    and will look more closely after (my real) work :)

    I have found myself forced towards pre text for verse, it makes
    coying / pasting Greek text very easy and preserves the line breaks
    for the verse without 100 br per page. The English translation is
    treated the same only to be parallel.

    Increased line spacing seeks to make the Greek text a little clearer
    and easier to read.

    Anyway thanks for your ideas!!!!

    Andrew
    --

    Andrew
    http://www.andrews-corner.org/
     
    Andrew, Jul 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Andrew <sorry.no.email@post_NG.com> scripsit:

    > I have found myself forced towards pre text for verse, it makes
    > coying / pasting Greek text very easy and preserves the line breaks
    > for the verse without 100 br per page. The English translation is
    > treated the same only to be parallel.


    I wonder why you have rejected the most obvious structural approach, which
    would probably remove some of your problems: using a table with two columns,
    with one verse as one row. Simple preprocessing should take care of
    converting texts into such a format

    That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most situations. To
    make things work in very narrow windows as well, you could use a little CSS
    so that if a table cell's content is divided into two lines, it appears with
    some indentation on the second (and any subsequent) line, to indicate
    continuation of a verse.

    --
    Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Andrew

    jojo Guest

    Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

    >> I have found myself forced towards pre text for verse, it makes
    >> coying / pasting Greek text very easy and preserves the line breaks
    >> for the verse without 100 br per page. The English translation is
    >> treated the same only to be parallel.

    >
    > I wonder why you have rejected the most obvious structural approach,
    > which would probably remove some of your problems: using a table with
    > two columns, with one verse as one row. Simple preprocessing should take
    > care of converting texts into such a format


    I suppose most people here are glad, that Andrew didn't use a table. The
    reason: tables are not a layout object, they are for displaying tabular
    data. In HTML 4.01 you shouldn't use any element for different purpose
    than it's semantic meaning. For layout use CSS.

    > That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most
    > situations. To make things work in very narrow windows as well, you
    > could use a little CSS so that if a table cell's content is divided into
    > two lines, it appears with some indentation on the second (and any
    > subsequent) line, to indicate continuation of a verse.
    >
     
    jojo, Jul 24, 2006
    #5
  6. On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, jojo wrote:

    > I suppose most people here are glad, that Andrew didn't use a table.
    > The reason: tables are not a layout object, they are for displaying
    > tabular data.


    Quite so, and a verse and its translation certainly stand in a
    relationship which is apt to be presented as tabular data.

    > In HTML 4.01 you shouldn't use any element for different purpose
    > than it's semantic meaning. For layout use CSS.


    And in English you shouldn't confuse its with it's

    > > That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most
    > > situations. To make things work in very narrow windows as well,
    > > you could use a little CSS so that if a table cell's content is
    > > divided into two lines, it appears with some indentation on the
    > > second (and any subsequent) line, to indicate continuation of a
    > > verse.


    Why did you quote that, if you had nothing to say about it?

    ....herrschaftszeiten...
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Jul 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Andrew

    jojo Guest

    Alan J. Flavell wrote:

    >> I suppose most people here are glad, that Andrew didn't use a table.
    >> The reason: tables are not a layout object, they are for displaying
    >> tabular data.

    >
    > Quite so, and a verse and its translation certainly stand in a
    > relationship which is apt to be presented as tabular data.


    I'm sorry, I overlooked the fact that it is a translation... perhaps the
    subject misled me.
    >
    >> In HTML 4.01 you shouldn't use any element for different purpose
    >> than it's semantic meaning. For layout use CSS.

    >
    > And in English you shouldn't confuse its with it's


    My apologies.
    >
    >>> That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most
    >>> situations. To make things work in very narrow windows as well,
    >>> you could use a little CSS so that if a table cell's content is
    >>> divided into two lines, it appears with some indentation on the
    >>> second (and any subsequent) line, to indicate continuation of a
    >>> verse.

    >
    > Why did you quote that, if you had nothing to say about it?
    >
    > ...herrschaftszeiten...

    ....jetzad reichts amoi! Jo, i woas scho...

    Yes, I know, not necessary... my apologies again. The fact is: first I
    wanted to say something about it but then I decided otherwise and forgot
    to strip out the quote.
     
    jojo, Jul 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Andrew

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, jojo
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > In HTML 4.01 you shouldn't use any element for different purpose
    > than it's semantic meaning. For layout use CSS.


    Do you have any idea who you're replying to? Have a look through the
    archives for Jukka's posts and you'll see what I mean... :)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    My Usenet is improved; yours could be too:
    http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Mark Parnell, Jul 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 16:04:06 +0100, "Alan J. Flavell"
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, jojo wrote:
    >
    >> I suppose most people here are glad, that Andrew didn't use a table.
    >> The reason: tables are not a layout object, they are for displaying
    >> tabular data.

    >
    >Quite so, and a verse and its translation certainly stand in a
    >relationship which is apt to be presented as tabular data.
    >
    >> In HTML 4.01 you shouldn't use any element for different purpose
    >> than it's semantic meaning. For layout use CSS.

    >
    >And in English you shouldn't confuse its with it's
    >
    >> > That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most
    >> > situations. To make things work in very narrow windows as well,
    >> > you could use a little CSS so that if a table cell's content is
    >> > divided into two lines, it appears with some indentation on the
    >> > second (and any subsequent) line, to indicate continuation of a
    >> > verse.

    >
    >Why did you quote that, if you had nothing to say about it?
    >
    >...herrschaftszeiten...


    Hi Alan,

    Thanks for presenting this so clearly. I guess I have been a victim of
    table-phobia and I have been constructing increasingly complex CSS to
    mimic legitimate table function :)

    Thinking out loud: For a table the title of each text (English /
    Greek) would act as column headers with a relationship to the column
    below each. The cell with the Greek would have a relationship to the
    cell parallel to it in English. A tfoot section would contain
    information on both texts + time of placement etc. thead for text
    title, tbody for the greek / english.

    Thanks for providing some guidance in this matter!

    Andrew.
    --

    Andrew
    http://www.andrews-corner.org/
     
    Andrew, Jul 25, 2006
    #9
  10. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:40:23 +0300, "Jukka K. Korpela"
    <> wrote:

    >Andrew <sorry.no.email@post_NG.com> scripsit:
    >
    >> I have found myself forced towards pre text for verse, it makes
    >> coying / pasting Greek text very easy and preserves the line breaks
    >> for the verse without 100 br per page. The English translation is
    >> treated the same only to be parallel.

    >
    >I wonder why you have rejected the most obvious structural approach, which
    >would probably remove some of your problems: using a table with two columns,
    >with one verse as one row. Simple preprocessing should take care of
    >converting texts into such a format
    >
    >That way, the columns would take their natural widths in most situations. To
    >make things work in very narrow windows as well, you could use a little CSS
    >so that if a table cell's content is divided into two lines, it appears with
    >some indentation on the second (and any subsequent) line, to indicate
    >continuation of a verse.


    Hi Jukka,

    It has in fact been pointed out to me that the material that I will
    be presenting is in fact legitimate tabular data and I will be taking
    your advice and using tables for this particular data. (As I have also
    taken advice from your site concerning footnoting without superscript
    links:).

    I have searched for information on indenting the second line without
    much success. Do you have a link?

    Thanks for your trouble,

    Andrew.
    --

    Andrew
    http://www.andrews-corner.org/
     
    Andrew, Jul 25, 2006
    #10
  11. Andrew wrote:
    >
    > I have searched for information on indenting the second line without
    > much success. Do you have a link?
    >


    You mean, a hanging indentation, like this?

    Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought
    forth on this continent a new nation, conceived
    in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that
    all men are created equal.

    Use (substituting your choice of indentation size):

    padding-left: 2em;
    text-indent: -2em;
     
    Harlan Messinger, Jul 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jul 2006 21:21:26 -0400, Harlan Messinger
    <> wrote:

    >Andrew wrote:
    >>
    >> I have searched for information on indenting the second line without
    >> much success. Do you have a link?
    >>

    >
    >You mean, a hanging indentation, like this?
    >
    >Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought
    > forth on this continent a new nation, conceived
    > in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that
    > all men are created equal.
    >
    >Use (substituting your choice of indentation size):
    >
    > padding-left: 2em;
    > text-indent: -2em;


    Hi,

    That is absolutely ingenious. Thanks!!

    Andrew
    --

    Andrew
    http://www.andrews-corner.org/
     
    Andrew, Jul 25, 2006
    #12
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