Possible bug in Calendar

[The ScuzzBuster]

strengthens my conviction that you are indeed Twisted.

No, he is not.

From http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/opero-citato-op-cit.html:

opero citato (op cit)

Definition

Reference term used usually in a footnote to refer to the title of a
work cited in a previous footnote.

You'll be damned lucky if anything you write ever ends up even
aspiring to the status of "footnote", Lars-hole.

I think Lew did not use it correctly

That's hardly a surprise, given my prior experience with him. He was a
flaming arsehole and know-nothing know-it-all then and I strongly
suspect that he's a flaming arsehole and know-nothing know-it-all now.
*quickly browses rest of thread* Yep, he is, and now he's gone off on
some other poor sap. And unfortunately he, and you, have apparently
decided for some crazy reason to drag me into the middle of your
little spat with Harold. I can't imagine why, given how things turned
out the last time you picked a fight with me. Two of your clique lost
net access and another got a stern warning from the university whose
network he was abusing to post off-topic and inflammatory nastiness to
cljp, and all of you wound up covered in mud while none of it stuck to
me. Meanwhile the newsgroup's SNR suffered for several full months. Do
you really want a repeat of that, Lars-hole? Because you know, this
time, what the outcome will be. I will prevail through steely resolve
and a steadfast refusal to knuckle under, with a little help from
being on the side of truth and justice, and you will dig yourselves
into the deepest fucking hole you ever did see. In fact, since you
never climbed fully out of the last one you dug, you'll probably wind
up in China. (And that would be the end of your unfettered use of the
net -- if libel and slander aren't already blocked by the Great
Firewall, I'm sure it could be arranged through my international
business contacts and their lobbying clout with various diplomats and
trade representatives.)

[some humdrum insults of Harold deleted]

History and my own reading of the thread suggest that, whatever Harold
may be (I don't know him), Lew is in fact an arrogant twit with a
penchant for picking fights in the intertubes. (And I DO know *him*.)

 

[Mike Schilling]

What, you thought I wouldn't google every couple of weeks to see if
you weren't spreading this shit back to cljp?

Well, we did have some (alas, vain) hope that the new meds would
address some of the symptoms.

 

[Lars Enderin]

> You'll be damned lucky if anything you write ever ends up even
aspiring to the status of "footnote", Lars-hole.

What's your point?

*quickly browses rest of thread* Yep, he is, and now he's gone off on
some other poor sap. And unfortunately he, and you, have apparently
decided for some crazy reason to drag me into the middle of your
little spat with Harold. I can't imagine why, given how things turned
out the last time you picked a fight with me. Two of your clique lost
net access and another got a stern warning from the university whose
network he was abusing to post off-topic and inflammatory nastiness to
cljp, and all of you wound up covered in mud while none of it stuck to
me. Meanwhile the newsgroup's SNR suffered for several full months. Do

You're dreaming. Maybe the SNR of this group suffered, but that was
because of your obsessive insistence on denying that you could ever be
wrong. Nobody got burned but you.

you really want a repeat of that, Lars-hole? Because you know, this
time, what the outcome will be. I will prevail through steely resolve
and a steadfast refusal to knuckle under, with a little help from
being on the side of truth and justice, and you will dig yourselves

You live in a world of your own. No contact with reality.

into the deepest fucking hole you ever did see. In fact, since you
never climbed fully out of the last one you dug, you'll probably wind
up in China. (And that would be the end of your unfettered use of the
net -- if libel and slander aren't already blocked by the Great
Firewall, I'm sure it could be arranged through my international
business contacts and their lobbying clout with various diplomats and
trade representatives.)

What are you on? You are hallucinating.

 

[John W Kennedy]

It's like left and right. Or black and white. They're op. cits.

Oh for God's sake! Am I the only person here who actually got a passing
grade in high-school English?

 

[Lew]

Oh for God's sake! Am I the only person here who actually got a passing
grade in high-school English?

Give the guy a break - it was a worthy pun.

 

[The ScuzzBuster]

What, you thought I wouldn't google every couple of weeks to see if
you weren't spreading this shit back to cljp?

[insult deleted]

No, you're the crazy one.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[The ScuzzBuster]

[snip]

NO! DO NOT POST WHILE I AM STILL CATCHING UP. WAIT 24 HOURS FIRST.

What's your point?

Isn't that obvious? My point was that you should shut the hell up.

*quickly browses rest of thread* Yep, he is, and now he's gone off on
some other poor sap. And unfortunately he, and you, have apparently
decided for some crazy reason to drag me into the middle of your
little spat with Harold. I can't imagine why, given how things turned
out the last time you picked a fight with me. Two of your clique lost
net access and another got a stern warning from the university whose
network he was abusing to post off-topic and inflammatory nastiness to
cljp, and all of you wound up covered in mud while none of it stuck to
me. Meanwhile the newsgroup's SNR suffered for several full months. Do

[insult deleted] Maybe the SNR of this group suffered, but that was
because of [false accusations deleted]

You're the crazy one and you're a liar.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

[mangled quoted material deleted]

Learn to quote properly!

I will prevail through steely resolve and a steadfast refusal to
knuckle under, with a little help from being on the side of truth
and justice, and you will dig yourselves

[insult deleted]

No, you're the crazy one.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

[mangled quoted material deleted]

Learn to quote properly!

(And that would be the end of your unfettered use of the net --
if libel and slander aren't already blocked by the Great Firewall,
I'm sure it could be arranged through my international business
contacts and their lobbying clout with various diplomats and trade
representatives.)

[insults deleted]

No, you're the drug abuser and the crazy one.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

 

[Joshua Cranmer]

[snip]

NO! DO NOT POST WHILE I AM STILL CATCHING UP. WAIT 24 HOURS FIRST.

Was it not you who said: "I don't take orders from you?"
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/msg/eacbe771ac092524>

So if you won't take orders from us, why should Mr. Enderin take orders
from you?

 

[Lew]

[snip]

NO! DO NOT POST WHILE I AM STILL CATCHING UP. WAIT 24 HOURS FIRST.

Thanks to Joshua for showing me this. I'm LMAO.

Was it not you who said: "I don't take orders from you?"
<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.programmer/msg/eacbe771ac092524>

So if you won't take orders from us, why should Mr. Enderin take orders
from you?

Especially when ScuzzMonkey is so rude to Lars, calling him names and such.

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

[snip]

NO! DO NOT POST WHILE I AM STILL CATCHING UP. WAIT 24 HOURS FIRST.

You have tried that many times before.

Did it work ?

What did Einstein say about that ?

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Arne Vajhøj wrote:
Harold Yarmouth wrote:
Lew wrote:
Of course it's not returning a singleton, since the javadoc of the
getInstance method explicitely says that "The Calendar returned is
based on the current time [...]".

Which could, perversely, be referring to the time the
documentation was being written. Stranger things have happened.

You will not get nominated twice !

Excuse me?

For "the most lame argument posted to cljp in 2008".

Can trolls even be nominated for that?

Ooops.

No.

Rule number 5 explicit prohibits giving the award to a troll.

Sorry about that.

Are we here to discuss Java or medieval Germanic fairy-tale monsters
that don't really exist?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I also never said I meant "only in the core Java API". I meant "in Java
code in general", as in ALL of it.

But the Java API is *the* example of how SUN think Java should be used.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

No, I do not. I mean that I know of too many to list

Just post the first 25 that come s to your mind ...

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I mentioned that an awful lot of them do,

English is not my native language, but even me knows that
"mention that an awful lot of them do" does not qualify as
"mention any".

and I'll thank you to stop a)
accusing me of being a liar and b) lying about me!

Well - you just agreed with me (see above).

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Sure there is. The country in which the industrial revolution began used
the Gregorian calendar, and as a result it more or less got standardized
on. That same country spoke English, and as a result English also more
or less got standardized on.

Believe it or not but the IT world has not standardized on English
for business apps.

It is a very common requirements to support French, German, Spanish
and worse the East Asian languages.

You wouldn't recommend that String support translation into different
languages, would you?

No.

But that is rather irrelevant since this is not what Calendar supplies.

Likewise, conversion of the internal representation of time to and from
a particular localized representation belongs in the periphery of the
program, and the support classes to do so should be clearly distinct
from the core classes that are merely used to work with
network/file/internal time representations, compare these for equality
and order, and perform duration arithmetic upon them.

That is what Date does. This is not what Calendar does.

See that JSR a link to which somebody else posted. It gets this more or
less exactly right, unlike you. You therefore might find it quite
educational.

I think you should read it.

They want to change a lot of things. But none of them are related
to your misunderstandings of the Calendar class.

And they indeed want to support other calendars than Gregorian.

Of their user interface layers, yes. (Imagine the chaos that would ensue
if the back-end DB had some dates in different time zones, some in the
Julian calendar, and so forth. This isn't done, which further reinforces
my point.)

Which of course is completely irrelevant.

The fact that Calendar's are not used in DAL or database does not change
the fact that Calendars are used in business apps.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

It is. And it belongs in the UI layer. Times should be something simple,
like nanoseconds since the epoch, under the hood.

Which it also is in Java - the Date class.

But Java need something to match that with calendars - and it has.

Oh - and it is not just PL - it is also BLL.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

No, it is not. It is simply an observation of a statistically-true fact.

Please give a link to that statistic.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

And it can do so in a UI-oriented class. DateFormat might be expanded to
provide such functionality. Or a CalendarFormat class added.

You have completely misunderstood the purpose of Calendar.

It is not a formatting/parsing class.

It is a class that applies the rules of the calendar.

It is not racist to think that only the Gregorian calendar is needed. It
is simple pragmatism: only the Gregorian calendar is ordinarily *used*.
It covers the vast majority of programming needs, since it's a defacto
international standard throughout the developed world and throughout
international commerce.

You are telling people that computer programs should use your
calendar and not their own.

That was the way of colonialism was done 300 years ago.

It is not how globalization work.

Furthermore, we were discussing the core business-logic classes. Those
should use a single time standard, ideally, say a Gregorian calendar
with the UTC+0000 time-zone. Alternative ways of displaying dates to the
user and of parsing dates from the user belong in a separate utility class.

No. That about "core business-logic classes" is just something you
brought into the discussion late.

And BTW it is not even correct. Some types of business logic requires
Calendar knowledge.

Note also that never have I suggested, though you keep insinuating
otherwise, that such users should not be able to use alternative
calendars. I just questioned including them in core Java, and especially
involving them in the core Date class and its builder object rather than
putting them somewhere more peripheral.

They are not in Date - they are in Calendar.

And Calendar is not a Date builder.

So wrong twice.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Oh, yes, I do. I just DID say something, didn't I?

"anything to say in that matter" does not mean "say something".

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Arne Vajhøj wrote:
Harold Yarmouth wrote:
Lew wrote:
Of course it's not returning a singleton, since the javadoc of the
getInstance method explicitely says that "The Calendar returned is
based on the current time [...]".

Which could, perversely, be referring to the time the documentation
was being written. Stranger things have happened.

You will not get nominated twice !

Excuse me?

For "the most lame argument posted to cljp in 2008".

Oh, no matter. I wouldn't have won that one anyway.

You would have gotten a lot of votes.

Unfortunately for you then you got disqualified
due to the troll rule.

Arne