Problem with pic positioning...

[Henry]

I'm working on a friend's web page. He's a kid's muzo and he wants the
page to look candy.

It suppose to look like that...

http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html


The problem is, when I'm trying to separate top table from the rest, red
pic under top part is showing a white gap.

http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/info1.htm


I was trying to get rid of it but after 3 hours I still have the same
problem.

I'm trying to have free space between both sections to use some text
boxes with css.

Any idea how to fix that problem?

TIA

 

[Neal]

I'm working on a friend's web page. He's a kid's muzo and he wants the
page to look candy.

What the hell does that mean?

It suppose to look like that...

http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html


The problem is, when I'm trying to separate top table from the rest, red
pic under top part is showing a white gap.

http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/info1.htm

Why nest tables? If you can do this without nesting tables you solve your
problem. Better yet, don't rely on tables at all.

Meanwhile, no alt text, total reliance on Javascript. Did you ever lurk
here before posting? Don't you think that's a good idea?

I mean, the page looks all "candy", whatever the freak that is, but it is
a poster child for bad web design.

Do yourself a favor. Start over. Think about the kid who can't see, who
has this page read to her. How do you answer the tearful email that this
site won't work for her?

 

[Henry]

What the hell does that mean?



Why nest tables? If you can do this without nesting tables you solve
your problem. Better yet, don't rely on tables at all.

Why ?

Meanwhile, no alt text, total reliance on Javascript. Did you ever lurk
here before posting? Don't you think that's a good idea?

Yes. I'm lurking here almost everyday. At this stage alt text can wait.
Don't you agree? It's not total reliance in Javascript because at the
bottom is small but normal menu.

I mean, the page looks all "candy", whatever the freak that is, but it
is a poster child for bad web design.

I've asked here for a help, not for a comment. You comment is not
important. What is important, is the comment of my friend. And he loves it!

Never heard that customer is always right?

Do yourself a favor. Start over. Think about the kid who can't see, who
has this page read to her. How do you answer the tearful email that this
site won't work for her?

I guess I could. At this stage, kid who can't see is not the problem. If
it would be, there wouldn't be pics in web site and if poor kid is deaf,
there would no music for her as well.

I would love to learn how to translate in best possible way Photoshop'
design into tables.

I have tried css for that and at this stage, thanks, but not thanks.

Hey Doormuse. You seems to be an expert of tables.

I need your help!

TIA

 

[Henry]

Neal wrote:

Fixed!

Doormouse... I still need some hints mate!!!

Since you are Polish...

If you want contact me via email, use that below...


(e-mail address removed)

Remove BUGGA, OK?

TIA

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

Why ?

HTML tables were designed to be used for tabular data like you'd see in
a spreadsheet. If they were commonly used that way, all sorts of nifty
things would be possible: sorting of the columns built into browsers,
automatic translation into a spreadsheet or database table, rearranging
of columns, etc. Unfortunately, some web designers insist on using
tables for something they were never designed for: laying out their
pages; any browser that implemented nifty features for genuine data
tables would look foolish when fed a page using a tabule layout.

Nested tables -- that is, tables contained in other tables -- are even
worse than other table layouts. They're slow to render, slower to load,
and even worse for voice and other special browsers to make sense of.
And, of course, they're a serious pain for their author to maintain.

See also:
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
http://dorward.me.uk/www/nested/
http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/
http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html

I've asked here for a help, not for a comment.

This is Usenet, not your personal 24-hour free help desk. The purpose of
Usenet is discussion; someone may answer your question, but it's
entirely his choice. If you want mindless help, try

I guess I could. At this stage, kid who can't see is not the problem. If
it would be, there wouldn't be pics in web site and if poor kid is deaf,
there would no music for her as well.

Accessibility doesn't mean having less content for people who aren't
disabled, it means more content for people who are. Blind children can't
see pictures, but they can hear a description of the picture, or totally
ignore it if it's decoration they don't need to know about.

Of course, a blind person won't have much use for a clip art site, but
there's no way around that. Unless the entire purpose of your site is to
show photos or hear music, there's probably something that blind and
deaf people can get out of it.

 

[Neal]

Unfortunately, some

.... most ...

web designers insist on using tables for something they were never
designed for: laying out their pages; any browser that implemented nifty
features for genuine data tables would look foolish when fed a page
using a tabule layout.

I agree with the rest except...

Of course, a blind person won't have much use for a clip art site, but
there's no way around that. Unless the entire purpose of your site is to
show photos or hear music, there's probably something that blind and
deaf people can get out of it.

Jill's mother knows Jill loves pictures of horses. However, Jill's mother
is blind. She uses alt text to determine what the picture is and whether
Jill will like it.

Benny's father's birthday is coming up. He wants to email him the Happy
Birthday song. Although Benny is deaf, he can use sensible linking text to
have some security that he's downloading the right file.

 

[Henry]

Neal wrote:

Jill's mother knows Jill loves pictures of horses. However, Jill's
mother is blind. She uses alt text to determine what the picture is and
whether Jill will like it.

It's your obsession or you mean... color blind people?

 

[Neal]

Neal wrote:




It's your obsession or you mean... color blind people?

No, I mean people who cannot see. The same can be applied to a sighted
user who cannot view images - whether due to hardware or other reasons.

I have no obsession about this. I simply understand that all users deserve
as equal access to my content as is practical. To fail to design your page
to be accessible to every user is simply to fail.

Let me tell you a story. I was music directing a show that needed a
pianist. The producer told me she found one. In hobbles this
half-paralyzed woman. Turns out she was in a major auto accident a few
years back, and was only recently able to walk. I was rather unsure that
she could do a thing.

She sat down and blew me away. Not much with the damper pedal, mind you,
but technique-wise, she played circles around me. She was perfect for the
job.

Another show I was on, the director was a pro who'd done shows in New
York. Worst director I ever encountered. Awful.

Don't assume anything about the people who happen onto your site. The user
with the least likely browser, operating system, monitor, or anything else
you can name, that might be the user who you most need to access your
content. So plan for all contingencies.

 

[Henry]

No, I mean people who cannot see. The same can be applied to a sighted
user who cannot view images - whether due to hardware or other reasons.

I have no obsession about this. I simply understand that all users
deserve as equal access to my content as is practical. To fail to design
your page to be accessible to every user is simply to fail.

Im sorry Neil, I was very sarcastic and to my surprise, you are actually
really nice guy.



I thought that you will have a go on me for that!

)))))


Of course I do understand perfectly what you mean. I'm dwelling on this
ng for more than couple months and I've read a lot here. I've tried few
things in css and I have found that in most cases css's are creating
more trouble than tables.

Regardless who made what and for which purpose, I don't think is a valid
argument today at all. I'm talking about "tables made only for a tabular
data" for a web design.

I'm a muzo myself and a computer technician. It happened that I had to
make a web page for my music and for my computer services. In computers
business is getting worse (Not mention the music. Most people think that
music should be free!) so I'm trying to make some extra $ to my income
and web design is my choice.

I was playing for long time with Adobe and I can make some nice
graphics. Making a page in Adobe is easy for me but putting it right in
html is much much harder.

I've tried css for that but I've found them more problematic than
tables. Yes, I use css for fonts, I've used for some tables but to make
the page...

http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html

.... in css I'm sure I would break my teeth.

The muzo, who wants it is well know in Perth TV personality and he loves
the design and how fast that page is loading.



Check his original page.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~wamac/

On first page I've fixed some problems but the rest.. OMG. His animated
gif is 348 000 bytes!

Personally I hate 75% of page usage and expandable pages with nice
graphics but I have to take step by step, learning using tables
properly, use css, Javascript, work with Flash until I'll be able to
call myself a web designer.

Today I'll be paid for this job, $300 for my learning time and I'll have
few jobs because of that.

My goal, learn to work fast at this stage with tables and Photoshop to
keep me going.

Next step would be expandable pages with different kind of graphics and
gradually increasing usage of css and using less tables.

Any help of course would be very much appreciated.

I'm a bit grumpy because nothing is happening in music for me, computers
going down the tube and I have my home for sale coz I'm not able to keep
with my payments. And I'm 50 years old Polish emigrant without private
health insurance.

I had my winge! :0