Problem with pic positioning...

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Henry, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. Henry

    Henry Guest

    I'm working on a friend's web page. He's a kid's muzo and he wants the
    page to look candy.

    It suppose to look like that...

    http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html


    The problem is, when I'm trying to separate top table from the rest, red
    pic under top part is showing a white gap.

    http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/info1.htm


    I was trying to get rid of it but after 3 hours I still have the same
    problem.

    I'm trying to have free space between both sections to use some text
    boxes with css.

    Any idea how to fix that problem?

    TIA
     
    Henry, Sep 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. Henry

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:33:42 +0800, Henry <> wrote:

    > I'm working on a friend's web page. He's a kid's muzo and he wants the
    > page to look candy.


    What the hell does that mean?

    > It suppose to look like that...
    >
    > http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html
    >
    >
    > The problem is, when I'm trying to separate top table from the rest, red
    > pic under top part is showing a white gap.
    >
    > http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/info1.htm


    Why nest tables? If you can do this without nesting tables you solve your
    problem. Better yet, don't rely on tables at all.

    Meanwhile, no alt text, total reliance on Javascript. Did you ever lurk
    here before posting? Don't you think that's a good idea?

    I mean, the page looks all "candy", whatever the freak that is, but it is
    a poster child for bad web design.

    Do yourself a favor. Start over. Think about the kid who can't see, who
    has this page read to her. How do you answer the tearful email that this
    site won't work for her?
     
    Neal, Sep 22, 2004
    #2
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  3. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Neal wrote:

    > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:33:42 +0800, Henry <> wrote:
    >
    >> I'm working on a friend's web page. He's a kid's muzo and he wants the
    >> page to look candy.

    >
    >
    > What the hell does that mean?
    >
    >> It suppose to look like that...
    >>
    >> http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html
    >>
    >>
    >> The problem is, when I'm trying to separate top table from the rest,
    >> red pic under top part is showing a white gap.
    >>
    >> http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/info1.htm

    >
    >
    > Why nest tables? If you can do this without nesting tables you solve
    > your problem. Better yet, don't rely on tables at all.


    Why ?

    > Meanwhile, no alt text, total reliance on Javascript. Did you ever lurk
    > here before posting? Don't you think that's a good idea?


    Yes. I'm lurking here almost everyday. At this stage alt text can wait.
    Don't you agree? It's not total reliance in Javascript because at the
    bottom is small but normal menu.


    > I mean, the page looks all "candy", whatever the freak that is, but it
    > is a poster child for bad web design.



    I've asked here for a help, not for a comment. You comment is not
    important. What is important, is the comment of my friend. And he loves it!

    Never heard that customer is always right?


    > Do yourself a favor. Start over. Think about the kid who can't see, who
    > has this page read to her. How do you answer the tearful email that this
    > site won't work for her?



    I guess I could. At this stage, kid who can't see is not the problem. If
    it would be, there wouldn't be pics in web site and if poor kid is deaf,
    there would no music for her as well.

    I would love to learn how to translate in best possible way Photoshop'
    design into tables.

    I have tried css for that and at this stage, thanks, but not thanks.

    Hey Doormuse. You seems to be an expert of tables.

    I need your help!

    TIA
     
    Henry, Sep 22, 2004
    #3
  4. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Henry wrote:

    > Neal wrote:



    Fixed! :)

    Doormouse... I still need some hints mate!!!

    Since you are Polish... ;)

    If you want contact me via email, use that below...




    Remove BUGGA, OK?

    TIA
     
    Henry, Sep 22, 2004
    #4
  5. Henry wrote:
    > Neal wrote:
    >> Why nest tables? If you can do this without nesting tables you solve
    >> your problem. Better yet, don't rely on tables at all.

    >
    > Why ?


    HTML tables were designed to be used for tabular data like you'd see in
    a spreadsheet. If they were commonly used that way, all sorts of nifty
    things would be possible: sorting of the columns built into browsers,
    automatic translation into a spreadsheet or database table, rearranging
    of columns, etc. Unfortunately, some web designers insist on using
    tables for something they were never designed for: laying out their
    pages; any browser that implemented nifty features for genuine data
    tables would look foolish when fed a page using a tabule layout.

    Nested tables -- that is, tables contained in other tables -- are even
    worse than other table layouts. They're slow to render, slower to load,
    and even worse for voice and other special browsers to make sense of.
    And, of course, they're a serious pain for their author to maintain.

    See also:
    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts
    http://dorward.me.uk/www/nested/
    http://www.hotdesign.com/seybold/
    http://markl.f2o.org/tutorial/tables/Advanced_Tables.html

    > I've asked here for a help, not for a comment.


    This is Usenet, not your personal 24-hour free help desk. The purpose of
    Usenet is discussion; someone may answer your question, but it's
    entirely his choice. If you want mindless help, try
    <http://experts-exchange.com/> or <http://answers.google.com/answers/>.

    > I guess I could. At this stage, kid who can't see is not the problem. If
    > it would be, there wouldn't be pics in web site and if poor kid is deaf,
    > there would no music for her as well.


    Accessibility doesn't mean having less content for people who aren't
    disabled, it means more content for people who are. Blind children can't
    see pictures, but they can hear a description of the picture, or totally
    ignore it if it's decoration they don't need to know about.

    Of course, a blind person won't have much use for a clip art site, but
    there's no way around that. Unless the entire purpose of your site is to
    show photos or hear music, there's probably something that blind and
    deaf people can get out of it.
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Sep 22, 2004
    #5
  6. Henry

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 03:59:38 -0400, Leif K-Brooks <>
    wrote:

    > Unfortunately, some


    .... most ...

    > web designers insist on using tables for something they were never
    > designed for: laying out their pages; any browser that implemented nifty
    > features for genuine data tables would look foolish when fed a page
    > using a tabule layout.


    I agree with the rest except...

    > Of course, a blind person won't have much use for a clip art site, but
    > there's no way around that. Unless the entire purpose of your site is to
    > show photos or hear music, there's probably something that blind and
    > deaf people can get out of it.


    Jill's mother knows Jill loves pictures of horses. However, Jill's mother
    is blind. She uses alt text to determine what the picture is and whether
    Jill will like it.

    Benny's father's birthday is coming up. He wants to email him the Happy
    Birthday song. Although Benny is deaf, he can use sensible linking text to
    have some security that he's downloading the right file.
     
    Neal, Sep 22, 2004
    #6
  7. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Neal wrote:


    > Jill's mother knows Jill loves pictures of horses. However, Jill's
    > mother is blind. She uses alt text to determine what the picture is and
    > whether Jill will like it.



    It's your obsession or you mean... color blind people?
     
    Henry, Sep 22, 2004
    #7
  8. Henry

    Neal Guest

    On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:54:44 +0800, Henry <> wrote:

    > Neal wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Jill's mother knows Jill loves pictures of horses. However, Jill's
    >> mother is blind. She uses alt text to determine what the picture is and
    >> whether Jill will like it.

    >
    >
    > It's your obsession or you mean... color blind people?


    No, I mean people who cannot see. The same can be applied to a sighted
    user who cannot view images - whether due to hardware or other reasons.

    I have no obsession about this. I simply understand that all users deserve
    as equal access to my content as is practical. To fail to design your page
    to be accessible to every user is simply to fail.

    Let me tell you a story. I was music directing a show that needed a
    pianist. The producer told me she found one. In hobbles this
    half-paralyzed woman. Turns out she was in a major auto accident a few
    years back, and was only recently able to walk. I was rather unsure that
    she could do a thing.

    She sat down and blew me away. Not much with the damper pedal, mind you,
    but technique-wise, she played circles around me. She was perfect for the
    job.

    Another show I was on, the director was a pro who'd done shows in New
    York. Worst director I ever encountered. Awful.

    Don't assume anything about the people who happen onto your site. The user
    with the least likely browser, operating system, monitor, or anything else
    you can name, that might be the user who you most need to access your
    content. So plan for all contingencies.
     
    Neal, Sep 22, 2004
    #8
  9. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Neal wrote:

    >> It's your obsession or you mean... color blind people?

    >
    >
    > No, I mean people who cannot see. The same can be applied to a sighted
    > user who cannot view images - whether due to hardware or other reasons.
    >
    > I have no obsession about this. I simply understand that all users
    > deserve as equal access to my content as is practical. To fail to design
    > your page to be accessible to every user is simply to fail.



    Im sorry Neil, I was very sarcastic and to my surprise, you are actually
    really nice guy.

    :)

    I thought that you will have a go on me for that!

    :))))))


    Of course I do understand perfectly what you mean. I'm dwelling on this
    ng for more than couple months and I've read a lot here. I've tried few
    things in css and I have found that in most cases css's are creating
    more trouble than tables.

    Regardless who made what and for which purpose, I don't think is a valid
    argument today at all. I'm talking about "tables made only for a tabular
    data" for a web design.

    I'm a muzo myself and a computer technician. It happened that I had to
    make a web page for my music and for my computer services. In computers
    business is getting worse (Not mention the music. Most people think that
    music should be free!) so I'm trying to make some extra $ to my income
    and web design is my choice.

    I was playing for long time with Adobe and I can make some nice
    graphics. Making a page in Adobe is easy for me but putting it right in
    html is much much harder.

    I've tried css for that but I've found them more problematic than
    tables. Yes, I use css for fonts, I've used for some tables but to make
    the page...

    http://members.westnet.com.au/satori/test/index.html

    .... in css I'm sure I would break my teeth.

    The muzo, who wants it is well know in Perth TV personality and he loves
    the design and how fast that page is loading.

    ;)

    Check his original page.

    http://members.iinet.net.au/~wamac/

    On first page I've fixed some problems but the rest.. OMG. His animated
    gif is 348 000 bytes!

    Personally I hate 75% of page usage and expandable pages with nice
    graphics but I have to take step by step, learning using tables
    properly, use css, Javascript, work with Flash until I'll be able to
    call myself a web designer.

    Today I'll be paid for this job, $300 for my learning time and I'll have
    few jobs because of that.

    My goal, learn to work fast at this stage with tables and Photoshop to
    keep me going.

    Next step would be expandable pages with different kind of graphics and
    gradually increasing usage of css and using less tables.

    Any help of course would be very much appreciated.

    I'm a bit grumpy because nothing is happening in music for me, computers
    going down the tube and I have my home for sale coz I'm not able to keep
    with my payments. And I'm 50 years old Polish emigrant without private
    health insurance.

    I had my winge! :0
     
    Henry, Sep 23, 2004
    #9
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