Python in a Nutshell for Python 2.4

Discussion in 'Python' started by Tuang, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. Tuang

    Tuang Guest

    Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
    update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?
     
    Tuang, Sep 22, 2004
    #1
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  2. [Tuang]
    > Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
    > update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?


    I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
    he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
    be in luck ;-)


    Raymond Hettinger
     
    Raymond Hettinger, Sep 23, 2004
    #2
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  3. Raymond Hettinger <> wrote:

    > [Tuang]
    > > Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
    > > update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

    >
    > I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
    > he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
    > be in luck ;-)


    I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
    Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
    _after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
    targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
    etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
    Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
    don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
    before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 23, 2004
    #3
  4. Tuang

    Josh Close Guest

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:58:03 +0200, Alex Martelli <> wrote:
    > I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
    > Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
    > _after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
    > targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
    > etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
    > Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
    > don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
    > before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.
    >
    >
    > Alex


    Is there any particular reason you left out certain things in the
    Nutshell book? Like os.fork and syslog, and a few others I can't think
    of off the top of my head? Maybe because they work the same as the C
    version or something, or there is man pages about it?

    Just curious why, and if they'll be in the next version or not.

    -Josh
     
    Josh Close, Sep 23, 2004
    #4
  5. Tuang

    R Baumann Guest

    "Alex Martelli" <> wrote in message
    news:1gkkjme.1larcxs9r607kN%...
    > Raymond Hettinger <> wrote:
    >
    > > [Tuang]
    > > > Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
    > > > update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

    > >
    > > I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first;

    afterall,
    > > he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you

    might
    > > be in luck ;-)

    >
    > I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
    > Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
    > _after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
    > targeting March 2004 for that one).


    I think you've missed your target date! ;-)


    <SNIP>
     
    R Baumann, Sep 23, 2004
    #5
  6. Josh Close <> wrote:
    ...
    > Is there any particular reason you left out certain things in the
    > Nutshell book? Like os.fork and syslog, and a few others I can't think
    > of off the top of my head? Maybe because they work the same as the C
    > version or something, or there is man pages about it?


    The hardest part of writing the Nutshell was to decide what to include,
    or more precisely, what NOT to include, to make it as useful as possible
    within the 600-pages limit (I broke that limit, a bit, but not by much;
    it's 635 pages all told, I believe). It would have been much easier to
    just cover every bit in the standard library, avoid useful stuff that's
    not in the standard library (Numeric, Tkinter, mxDateTime, etc etc), and
    basically parrot the standard library docs. I believe (judging,
    basically, by the reviews I got) that by selectively covering only "the
    most useful parts" (in my own very personal judgment...) of the standard
    library, I managed to make the book more useful to most readers than it
    would have been had I taken the easier route. The exhaustive online
    docs _are_ there, after all, when you need to make sure you can see the
    docs about _every_thing, without Alex's judgment getting in the way; the
    Nutshell hopefully covers the parts most readers need most often.

    The fact that some parts of the Python standard library only work under
    some platforms, but not others, is something I gave high priority to, in
    deciding what to cover and what not. I think page xi is quite up-front
    about it: "This book ... focuses on Python's cross-platform
    capabilities". I do cover _some_ platform-specific aspects, such as
    "richer text I/O" (readline, Gonnerman's Alternative Readline, curses,
    Gonnerman's WConio, Lundh's Console -- sometimes with just very brief
    mentions...), because my experience suggests that such functionality IS
    highly sought after by the kind of readers who may often be not
    experienced enough to have an easy time finding out the info otherwise.
    But mostly, the Nutshell is focused on cross-platform, not platform
    specific stuff.


    > Just curious why, and if they'll be in the next version or not.


    I will review every decision I've made, and, should there be an outcry
    in favour of platform-specific coverage (so far, I haven't heard many
    complaints about the cross-platform focus), I may have to reconsider --
    dropping something else (deciding _what_ to drop will be sheer agony...)
    to make space for syslog, linuxaudiodev, _winreg, EasyDialogs, whatever.

    I think there should be separate books about platform-specific Python
    (so far, there's one -- alas getting rather old -- about Windows, but
    none about the Mac, Linux, or other Unixen), since just focusing on the
    cross-platform potential of Python fills a decent-sized book to the
    point it's bursting at the seams (I'm not interested in 1000+ pages
    books, and neither is O'Reilly for its Nutshell series). Whether
    publishers, and the book-buyers' market, agree with me, is of course
    another issue (a proposal for a platform-specific book about Python for
    the Mac got rejected -- by the major publisher of Python books AND of
    Mac books, they should have a good feeling for these markets -- as aimed
    to "a niche within a niche", alas).


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 23, 2004
    #6
  7. R Baumann <> wrote:
    ...

    > > _after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
    > > targeting March 2004 for that one).

    >
    > I think you've missed your target date! ;-)


    Ooops -- an off-by-one error, I suspect. Make it March 2005...!-)


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 23, 2004
    #7
  8. On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:16 +0200, (Alex Martelli)
    declaimed the following in comp.lang.python:


    > point it's bursting at the seams (I'm not interested in 1000+ pages
    > books, and neither is O'Reilly for its Nutshell series). Whether


    Tell them it's a Coconut shell <G>

    --
    > ============================================================== <
    > | Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG <
    > | Bestiaria Support Staff <
    > ============================================================== <
    > Home Page: <http://www.dm.net/~wulfraed/> <
    > Overflow Page: <http://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/> <
     
    Dennis Lee Bieber, Sep 24, 2004
    #8
  9. Tuang

    Tuang Guest

    (Alex Martelli) wrote in message news:<1gkkjme.1larcxs9r607kN%>...
    > Raymond Hettinger <> wrote:
    >
    > > [Tuang]
    > > > Does anyone (esp. Alex, if you're listening) know if there is an
    > > > update of Python in a Nutshell coming for Python 2.4?

    > >
    > > I would say let the poor guy finish the Py2.4 Cookbook update first; afterall,
    > > he's only one man. But now there are two Martelli's on the case, so you might
    > > be in luck ;-)

    >
    > I have not yet negotiated with O'Reilly about a 2nd edition of the
    > Nutshell, but I do suspect they'll be quite happy letting me write one,
    > _after_, as RH says, the 2nd edition of the Cookbook (we're still
    > targeting March 2004 for that one). Considering the times involved etc
    > etc, I believe it is out of the question for the 2nd edition of the
    > Nutshell to be in print in time for OSCON 2005 (==July 2005), alas. So,
    > don't hold your breath: I believe it will be _at least_ a year from now
    > before you can buy the 2nd edition of the Nutshell in bookstores:-(.
    >


    That's too bad, but thanks for the update, Alex. The quality of your
    work makes you the right man for too many jobs, it appears. ;-)

    BTW, when you said "still targeting Mar 2004" for the Cookbook, were
    you joking about the nature of the book publishing industry, or was it
    a typo for a real target date of Mar 2005?
     
    Tuang, Sep 24, 2004
    #9
  10. Tuang <> wrote:
    ...
    > That's too bad, but thanks for the update, Alex. The quality of your


    You're welcome!

    > work makes you the right man for too many jobs, it appears. ;-)


    Flattery will get you anywhere...

    > BTW, when you said "still targeting Mar 2004" for the Cookbook, were
    > you joking about the nature of the book publishing industry, or was it
    > a typo for a real target date of Mar 2005?


    The latter - an off-by-one error!-)


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 24, 2004
    #10
  11. Tuang

    Josh Close Guest

    On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 23:24:16 +0200, Alex Martelli <> wrote:
    > The hardest part of writing the Nutshell was to decide what to include,
    > or more precisely, what NOT to include, to make it as useful as possible
    > within the 600-pages limit (I broke that limit, a bit, but not by much;
    > it's 635 pages all told, I believe)

    [snip]

    I was just curious on your reason's behind it is all. Your nutshell
    book is actually the only python book I own and I learned how to
    program in python using it. I think it's very well written, just
    curious why is all. Python.org does have all the modules docs anyone
    could want also.

    I've been meaning to pick up the cookbook also which I think you wrote
    too...... I have a habbit of only buying O'Reilly books. I like their
    layouts.

    Thanks.

    -Josh
     
    Josh Close, Sep 24, 2004
    #11
  12. Tuang

    Ron Stephens Guest

    Speaking of platform specific Python books (other than Mark Hammond's
    Windows book), what a great idea! There is at least one enthusiastic
    customer for a Mac OS X specific Python book (me!).

    Ron Stephens
     
    Ron Stephens, Sep 24, 2004
    #12
  13. Ron Stephens <> wrote:

    > Speaking of platform specific Python books (other than Mark Hammond's
    > Windows book), what a great idea! There is at least one enthusiastic
    > customer for a Mac OS X specific Python book (me!).


    Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other
    publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
    giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 24, 2004
    #13
  14. > Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other
    > publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
    > giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!
    >


    Alex ....

    Maybe you could cut out the middle man, e.g. Cousin O'Reilly,
    and consider ....

    class AM_Publishing( object ) :

    def __init__( self , this_book ) :

    self.book = this_book

    def xWrite( self ) : pass

    def edit( self ) : pass

    def xPrint( self ) : pass

    def xBind( self ) : pass

    def advertise( self ) : pass

    def sell( self ) : pass

    def distribute( self ) : pass


    mac_py = AM_Publishing( 'Mac Python in a NutShell' )


    This exercise in *desktop publishing* might be worthy
    of a book in itself ....


    --
    Cousin Stanley
    Human Being
    Phoenix, Arizona
     
    Cousin Stanley, Sep 26, 2004
    #14
  15. Cousin Stanley <> wrote:

    > > Unfortunately, with O'Reilly having rejected it, I'm not sure what other
    > > publisher, if any, is enough "into" Mac _and_ Python. So for now I'm
    > > giving precedence to 2nd editions of Cookbook and Nutshell...!
    > >

    >
    > Alex ....
    >
    > Maybe you could cut out the middle man, e.g. Cousin O'Reilly,

    ...
    > mac_py = AM_Publishing( 'Mac Python in a NutShell' )
    >
    > This exercise in *desktop publishing* might be worthy
    > of a book in itself ....


    I suspect O'Reilly Media's trademark for "in a Nutshell" in book titles
    would put me in trouble. Still, sure, I could go for a different title
    and self-publish, if I disagreed with ORM's assessment of the market
    chances enough to be willing to risk it. I _am_ considering this
    possibility, of course. But it seems a bit far-fetched.


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Sep 26, 2004
    #15
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