Python Magazine exists! (was: Python intro questions)

Discussion in 'Python' started by Mark, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Hi,

    It seems a lot of people are not aware that a Python Magazine exists.
    Visit:

    http://www.pyzine.com

    to see what we are publishing this quarter and check out our free
    articles to see what
    kind of articles we publish.

    I'd like to repudiate once and for all the claim that:

    "Nobody gets paid to write articles about Python"

    We can't speak for other publishers/Magazines but this is certainly not
    the case at Py.
    Every quarter we pay for at least seven articles and quite frankly
    would like to pay
    for more. We also pay two great editors Kendall Clark and Eric-Peter
    Germain to edit
    all articles that we publish.

    See our Writers Guidelines for more info:

    http://www.pyzine.com/writefor.html

    We'd also like to point out that our sister publication ZopeMag:

    http://www.zopemag.com

    publishes on average another 8 articles per quarter of which some are
    the rough equivalents of Book Chapters (the parts of our SuperGuides).
    Since Zope is written mostly in Python we would argue that much of the
    content in ZopeMag are Python articles (but obviously with a focus on
    Zope/Plone/CPS/Silva).

    If you would like to see more Python articles and would like to support
    the only Python
    Magazine please consider subscribing.

    Regards,

    Mark
     
    Mark, Jun 25, 2004
    #1
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  2. Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Mark <> wrote:
    > It seems a lot of people are not aware that a Python Magazine exists.
    > Visit:


    > http://www.pyzine.com


    > to see what we are publishing this quarter and check out our free
    > articles to see what
    > kind of articles we publish.


    > I'd like to repudiate once and for all the claim that:


    > "Nobody gets paid to write articles about Python"


    Hi,

    I went to see your magazine and it looks pretty nice. However, you do publish quarterly and in my humble opinion, a
    yearly subscription of 49 Euros is crazy.

    Ognen
     
    Ognen Duzlevski, Jun 25, 2004
    #2
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  3. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Hello Ognen,

    On Jun 25, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Ognen Duzlevski wrote:

    > I went to see your magazine and it looks pretty nice. However, you do
    > publish quarterly and in my humble opinion, a
    > yearly subscription of 49 Euros is crazy.


    It all comes down to being able to pay the bills now doesn't it.

    Unlike the "old Py" where authors we now have have significant
    costs for editing and writing (and the occasional design work as well).

    We refuse to run a Magazine where we can not compensate authors for
    writing about Python.

    We expect that for the next 1 to 2 years we will be publishing at a
    loss (this
    is based on our experience with ZopeMag) but that eventually we will
    break
    even and (oh god) maybe even make a modest profit. This would be
    impossible
    for us to do for less than 49 Euros.

    But feel free to call us crazy! :)

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
    Mark, Jun 25, 2004
    #3
  4. Hi !

    Interesting ; but how do, for to have :
    - invoice (fiscal document in paper, obligatory in France)
    - adress of supplier (fiscal information, obligatory in France)
    - n° intracommunautaire of TVA (fiscal information, obligatory in
    France)
    - information of customs (douane ?) (obligatory for purchase in a
    foreign country)

    Thank you
    --
    Michel Claveau
     
    Michel Claveau/Hamster, Jun 25, 2004
    #4
  5. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Hi,

    The default payment for Py and/or ZopeMag is via Credit Card.

    Our payment provider (WorldPay) generates a receipt for each transaction
    but if you are interested in getting a subscription send me an email
    (and not
    this list) and I will make sure that you get a PDF invoice which meets
    all
    European requirements for payment either via Credit Card or Wire
    Transfer.

    Regards,

    Mark

    On Jun 25, 2004, at 1:31 PM, Michel Claveau/Hamster wrote:

    > Hi !
    >
    > Interesting ; but how do, for to have :
    > - invoice (fiscal document in paper, obligatory in France)
    > - adress of supplier (fiscal information, obligatory in France)
    > - n° intracommunautaire of TVA (fiscal information, obligatory in
    > France)
    > - information of customs (douane ?) (obligatory for purchase in a
    > foreign country)
    >
    > Thank you
    > --
    > Michel Claveau
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    >
    >
     
    Mark, Jun 25, 2004
    #5
  6. Mark

    Tyler Eaves Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:08:47 -0400, Mark wrote:


    > We expect that for the next 1 to 2 years we will be publishing at a
    > loss (this
    > is based on our experience with ZopeMag) but that eventually we will
    > break
    > even and (oh god) maybe even make a modest profit. This would be
    > impossible
    > for us to do for less than 49 Euros.
    >
    > But feel free to call us crazy! :)
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Mark


    Here's the thing, 49 euros is, at current rates, $59.57. Sorry, but $15 an
    issue is just too much for a magazine, especially since you don't actually
    mail honest-to-goodness dead tree versions. Now, it the cost was more like
    $20 a year, I might seriously consider it. It's a simple demand curve. If
    hypothetically, you got 4 times as many subscriptions by cutting your
    rates to 1/3rd of their present value (and I wouldn't say that isn't
    possible, and it may even be conservative), you'd be better off doing so,
    as your costs are basically fixed independent of the # of subscribers.
     
    Tyler Eaves, Jun 25, 2004
    #6
  7. Mark

    Dan Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    I have to agree with you. $61.42 is way TOO MUCH money just to access
    a website for an online 'zine.
    In all fairness, Ithere are some low volume (number or subscribers in
    the hundreds to a few thousand) technical journals I subscribe to that
    are around $20-$30 a year for quarterly in print journals mailed to me
    with little advertising. I think Pyzine would get more subscribers if
    they made their prices more reasonable.

    Dan

    Ognen Duzlevski <> wrote in message news:> Hi,
    >
    > I went to see your magazine and it looks pretty nice. However, you do publish quarterly and in my humble opinion, a
    > yearly subscription of 49 Euros is crazy.
    >
    > Ognen
     
    Dan, Jun 25, 2004
    #7
  8. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Hello Tyler,

    On Jun 25, 2004, at 3:22 PM, Tyler Eaves wrote:

    > Here's the thing, 49 euros is, at current rates, $59.57.


    Sorry, we are not willing to accept any responsibility for the weakness
    of the US Dollar or the price of Oil for that matter :)

    Considering that not too long ago 49 Euros was far less than 49 USD's
    that's just the way
    the pendulum swings. All though we think its a shame -- good for our
    authors though -- who
    get paid in Euro.

    > Sorry, but $15 an issue is just too much for a magazine, especially
    > since you don't actually
    > mail honest-to-goodness dead tree versions. Now, it the cost was more
    > like
    > $20 a year, I might seriously consider it.


    Well give it a few years. Maybe the Euro will drop to that level :)
    But I doubt it.

    > It's a simple demand curve. If
    > hypothetically, you got 4 times as many subscriptions by cutting your
    > rates to 1/3rd of their present value (and I wouldn't say that isn't
    > possible, and it may even be conservative), you'd be better off doing
    > so,
    > as your costs are basically fixed independent of the # of subscribers.


    "Basically" fixed is basically incorrect. Beyond simple things like
    increased hosting
    fees we definitely notice an increase in the amount of email we receive
    from our readers.
    We certainly aren't complaining about feedback from our subscribers (we
    love it) but it is a matter of fact that the more customers you serve
    the more time you will spend supporting them.

    Our goal is not to publish on the cheap. We'd rather expand our
    offerings. Py used to be in the price range you discussed and it was
    unsustainable. The "new" Py already features more articles than the
    "old" Py. As the subscriber base increases we hope to be able to make
    issues longer, publish more frequently, continue to release several
    articles for free on emerging Python technology (to help the adoption
    of new Python technology), and roll out some other surprises
    we are working on.

    Fact is we are in this for the long haul. And since subscribers get
    access to all back issues, in the case of ZopeMag this is the
    equivalent now of a Zope book, the price per page or what ever other
    vodoo metric one wants to use -- Py will become less expensive by the
    day (not including other factors like inflation) :) As for a paper
    edition Bryan (the former publisher of Py) repeatedly warned us from
    publishing a print edition (and backed this up with hard numbers).

    The good news is that our subscriber growth is inline with our
    projections and as we reach
    certain milestones each Py will get bigger not smaller (or dissapear
    altogether) and tied to this growth the amount of money (and people)
    paid to write about Python technologies.

    That was the original reason for writing to this mailinglist to debunk
    the myth that

    ""Nobody gets paid to write articles about Python"

    and to make people aware that a 100% Python Magazine exists today!

    We may not be able to convince you and a few others to subscriber to Py
    today but with the help of a growing subscriber base and a growing
    library of more worthwhile Python articles than ever before -- we hope
    to win you over eventually :)

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
    Mark, Jun 25, 2004
    #8
  9. Mark

    Kamilche Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Ognen Duzlevski <> wrote in message news:<cbhd74$9i4$>...
    >
    > I went to see your magazine and it looks pretty nice. However, you do publish quarterly and in my humble opinion, a
    > yearly subscription of 49 Euros is crazy.


    I agree. For an online magazine, $69/year seemed steep.
     
    Kamilche, Jun 25, 2004
    #9
  10. Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Mark wrote:

    > We refuse to run a Magazine where we can not compensate authors for
    > writing about Python.


    And if you charge too much, you won't get any subscribers, and you'll
    end up not compensating the authors anyway.

    --
    __ Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
    / \ San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
    \__/ Every exit is an entry somewhere else.
    -- Tom Stoppard
     
    Erik Max Francis, Jun 25, 2004
    #10
  11. Re: Python Magazine exists!

    Mark <> wrote:
    > It all comes down to being able to pay the bills now doesn't it.


    > We expect that for the next 1 to 2 years we will be publishing at a
    > loss (this
    > is based on our experience with ZopeMag) but that eventually we will
    > break
    > even and (oh god) maybe even make a modest profit. This would be
    > impossible
    > for us to do for less than 49 Euros.


    > But feel free to call us crazy! :)


    Hi Mark,

    I didn't mean "crazy" in a bad way. I was just comparing to some scientific journals and other professional journals I
    am subscribed to. I do think that if the price went down - you would have more subscribers. I know I would consider it
    for $20-25/year.

    Cheers,
    Ognen
     
    Ognen Duzlevski, Jun 25, 2004
    #11
  12. Re

    Ok ! Thanks by advance.

    Michel Claveau
     
    Michel Claveau/Hamster, Jun 25, 2004
    #12
  13. Mark wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > It seems a lot of people are not aware that a Python Magazine exists.
    > Visit:
    >
    > http://www.pyzine.com
    >
    > to see what we are publishing this quarter and check out our free
    > articles to see what
    > kind of articles we publish.
    >
    > I'd like to repudiate once and for all the claim that:
    >
    > "Nobody gets paid to write articles about Python"


    Let me add my experience:

    many months ago I was asked to write an article about Pyro.
    I submitted it, and it was *finally* published in PyZine issue 5.
    However, first they put an old draft online. It took a while
    to get it replaced with the correct, final version. But until
    today the references (links) in the article have not been corrected.
    I suggested to donate the author's fee to the Python Software Foundation,
    but that was not possible. After that I've never heard from them
    concerning any payment whatsoever, apart from that their bookkeeping
    department will be told about it.

    So, I'm sorry to say this but my experience with the new Pyzine
    is not too good.

    --Irmen de Jong
     
    Irmen de Jong, Jun 27, 2004
    #13
  14. Mark

    Lucas Raab Guest

    Re: Python Magazine exists!

    But I'm sure that people who write the articles would rather see the word
    spread about Python, than getting paid. Just my two cents.

    "Mark" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello Ognen,
    >
    > On Jun 25, 2004, at 10:35 AM, Ognen Duzlevski wrote:
    >
    > > I went to see your magazine and it looks pretty nice. However, you do
    > > publish quarterly and in my humble opinion, a
    > > yearly subscription of 49 Euros is crazy.

    >
    > It all comes down to being able to pay the bills now doesn't it.
    >
    > Unlike the "old Py" where authors we now have have significant
    > costs for editing and writing (and the occasional design work as well).
    >
    > We refuse to run a Magazine where we can not compensate authors for
    > writing about Python.
    >
    > We expect that for the next 1 to 2 years we will be publishing at a
    > loss (this
    > is based on our experience with ZopeMag) but that eventually we will
    > break
    > even and (oh god) maybe even make a modest profit. This would be
    > impossible
    > for us to do for less than 49 Euros.
    >
    > But feel free to call us crazy! :)
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Mark
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
    Lucas Raab, Jun 27, 2004
    #14
  15. Mark

    Kamilche Guest

    Irmen de Jong <> wrote in message news:<40deae5e$0$65807$4all.nl>...

    > ...So, I'm sorry to say this but my experience with the new Pyzine
    > is not too good.


    Wow, that's not good, thanks for sharing that information with us. The
    heck of it is, people probably WOULD write articles for their magazine
    for their preferred set price (read: FREE!) if they would give them
    even a magazine subscription in return. But that's a total gyp,
    instead.

    Sorry to hear that you wasted your time!

    --Kamilche
     
    Kamilche, Jun 27, 2004
    #15
  16. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Hello Kamilche,

    >
    >> ...So, I'm sorry to say this but my experience with the new Pyzine
    >> is not too good.

    >
    > Wow, that's not good, thanks for sharing that information with us. The
    > heck of it is, people probably WOULD write articles for their magazine
    > for their preferred set price (read: FREE!) if they would give them
    > even a magazine subscription in return. But that's a total gyp,
    > instead.


    Huh?

    If you actually took the time to visit Py and read our Writer's
    Guidelines you will find a big bold
    headline that reads: "Complimentary PyZine subscription for Authors"
    and Irmen of course got a free subscription.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     
    Mark, Jun 27, 2004
    #16
  17. (also in response to Mark's answer)

    Kamilche wrote:
    >
    >>...So, I'm sorry to say this but my experience with the new Pyzine
    >>is not too good.

    >
    >
    > Wow, that's not good, thanks for sharing that information with us. The
    > heck of it is, people probably WOULD write articles for their magazine
    > for their preferred set price (read: FREE!) if they would give them
    > even a magazine subscription in return. But that's a total gyp,
    > instead.


    Also to Mark: apologies for writing my story in the (too short)
    way that I did, you're comments are valid.
    What I wrote are the facts, but I may have expressed
    it too harshly.

    > Sorry to hear that you wasted your time!


    I didn't. The article *is* published. And I don't care
    about the money (I wrote the article at the time when PyZine had
    a different form, there was no talk about any author payment
    at that time). So again, it's not a big issue, I just wanted
    to share my experience.

    --Irmen.
     
    Irmen de Jong, Jun 27, 2004
    #17
  18. Mark wrote:

    >> Wow, that's not good, thanks for sharing that information with us. The
    >> heck of it is, people probably WOULD write articles for their magazine
    >> for their preferred set price (read: FREE!) if they would give them
    >> even a magazine subscription in return. But that's a total gyp,
    >> instead.

    >
    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > If you actually took the time to visit Py and read our Writer's
    > Guidelines you will find a big bold
    > headline that reads: "Complimentary PyZine subscription for Authors" and
    > Irmen of course got a free subscription.


    I did. And I will repeat an earlier reply here because it didn't
    reach everybody the first time:

    Mark: apologies for writing my story in the (too short)
    way that I did, you're comments are valid.
    What I wrote are the facts, but I may have expressed
    it too harshly.

    [Kamilche:]
    > Sorry to hear that you wasted your time!


    I didn't. The article *is* published. And I don't care
    about the money (I wrote the article at the time when PyZine had
    a different form, there was no talk about any author payment
    at that time). So again, it's not a big issue, I just wanted
    to share my experience.


    --Irmen.

    PS: everything has now been taken care of with PyZine.
     
    Irmen de Jong, Jun 28, 2004
    #18
  19. Mark wrote:

    >> Wow, that's not good, thanks for sharing that information with us. The
    >> heck of it is, people probably WOULD write articles for their magazine
    >> for their preferred set price (read: FREE!) if they would give them
    >> even a magazine subscription in return. But that's a total gyp,
    >> instead.

    >
    >
    > Huh?
    >
    > If you actually took the time to visit Py and read our Writer's
    > Guidelines you will find a big bold
    > headline that reads: "Complimentary PyZine subscription for Authors" and
    > Irmen of course got a free subscription.


    I did. And I will repeat an earlier reply here because it didn't
    reach everybody the first time:

    Mark: apologies for writing my story in the (too short)
    way that I did, you're comments are valid.
    What I wrote are the facts, but I may have expressed
    it too harshly.

    [Kamilche:]
    > Sorry to hear that you wasted your time!


    I didn't. The article *is* published. And I don't care
    about the money (I wrote the article at the time when PyZine had
    a different form, there was no talk about any author payment
    at that time). So again, it's not a big issue, I just wanted
    to share my experience.


    --Irmen.

    PS: everything has now been taken care of with PyZine.
     
    Irmen de Jong, Jun 28, 2004
    #19
  20. BTW Mark, what's the status of the article *I* submitted (I sent you a private
    email a couple of days ago but had no answer yet, so let me try the public
    forum instead ;)


    Michele Simionato
     
    Michele Simionato, Jun 29, 2004
    #20
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