seek advice for Ajax menu html script and include

[David Mark]

Gazing into my crystal ball I observed David Mark
<[email protected]> writing in (e-mail address removed):

CSS menus are inherently twitchy and there's nothing you can do about
it. ÿNot so with JS menus (good ones anyway), but those are a bad

ide

a
for navigation as they hide the structure of the site.
Have a look at [http://www.cavalcade-of-
coding.info/usenet/nottwitchycssmenu.html]. ÿNow tell me how that is
"twitchy".

That has no drop-downs (or fly-outs or whatever.)  Are you suggesting
that styling a list makes a point about menus?  Looks more like a tree
to me, which is what I suggested all along.  

IMHO, menus really should not have fly-outs and/or whatever.  Maybe I
might not be "with it" or "kewl", but what the heck.

You are so loopy. Go back and read the first post in the thread. Are
you really so thick as think that a "menu bar" with a permanently open
sub-menu has anything to do with this discussion. Or see the feedback
from the OP. He wants *drop-down* menus.

Your "menu" is a fully expanded tree. Menus (as the rest of the world
knows them) work differently, obscuring all but the top level
initially and revealing one sub-menu at a time on user actions. See
why I didn't like those for navigation?

Odd that site has no search, site index or custom 404 page (and your
"menus" are styled as trees.)  Did you farm it out?

I've been thinking about updating it, but I never seem to get to it.  The
menu is a nested list markup, and no, I did not farm it out.

Time to stop thinking about it and start doing it.

Thank you for your opinion, it's just information.

Very good information. I hope you took it as such. You've got work
to do.

Actually, right now, I'm full of coffee cake and coffee.  Funny, I don't
remember this thread as being a discussion about me.

You interjected your site right in the middle of it. And it was a
waste of time as well.

I would be more than happy to accomodate you, if you were giving me
constructive criticism, but you just seem to be merely attacking me.

Bullshit. Your quotes are one-liners. How about:

"...basically a piece of junk."

Constructive criticism does not belong in a review. I'd have had more
time for such things if you had not wasted it.

 

[dorayme]

On May 26, 5:43 pm, Adrienne Boswell <[email protected]> wrote:

Adrienne, don't upset yourself, this bloke is a total schmuck. I picked
it straight away weeks back. Leave the bastard to me. I will go over the
latest bits of the thread through the day and make devastatingly cutting
replies to him as and when I need an amusement or a break in work. I
have redirected Officer White from his mission on Boji (who is harmless
by comparison).

 

[David Mark]

Adrienne, don't upset yourself, this bloke is a total schmuck. I picked
it straight away weeks back. Leave the bastard to me. I will go over the
latest bits of the thread through the day and make devastatingly cutting
replies to him as and when I need an amusement or a break in work. I
have redirected Officer White from his mission on Boji (who is harmless
by comparison).

You know what, if your other friend hadn't forged my signature in an
adjacent ALT group yesterday, perhaps I would be more receptive to
pleas for "constructive criticism" today. As it is, I'm tired of
wasting time on loopy nonsense and forgeries.

You can keep this group.

 

[dorayme]

You can keep this group.

And which group is that considering you have posted to a few? My
attention being drawn to them, I snip them...

I had plans for you, what a pity you are going.

 

[dorayme]

"Twitchy?" Not sure what you mean by "twitchy."

On some slower computers, delays in processing commands can translate to
felt jerkinesses and twitches. It can happen in all sorts of ways, from
dropdown CSS menus to pages where there is a position fixed.

It was a well known problem for folks a few years back:

I recall Spartanicus complaining about such a thing, more recently Ben
C. It may be OS related or maybe just processor speed related.

Try this:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/positionFixed.html>

get any jerkiness on scrolling?

 

[David Mark]

[snip]

"Twitchy?"  Not sure what you mean by "twitchy."

As in, they appear and disappear instantaneously on hovering...

Still, drop-down menus is how Windows (the most prevalent operating
system in existence) works.

....which do not appear and disappear instantaneously on hovering.
Drop-down menus are standard GUI app building blocks with no specific
relation to Windows (they've been around far longer than Windows.)

So.  To offer most users what they are most used to using as a
navigation aid?  This is bad?

There is the fundamental flaw in your thinking. Perhaps others missed
this as well. Users are used to menus that contain *commands*.
Navigating is invariably done with a tree. Load any OS to see what I
mean. The nested folders are for navigation. The thing that starts
out "File Edit..." is a menu-bar. Play around with them a bit and it
will hit you. That's right. The Web has it backwards.

Yes, they can be poorly implemented on the Web, no doubt.

No doubt there. Like most everything else on the Web, they are
implemented poorly. The usual rationale is that things like drop-down
menus make documents more "cool" for the users. Users don't want
cool, they want easy.

But, still, it's a paradigm I'm familiar with from using all of my
Windows apps and I appreciate that familiar look and feel when I
encounter it on the Web.

See above.

My site uses them.  Please.  Go ahead and try them and tell me how they
work or do not work for you.  Seriously, I'm interested in finding fault
with my site and I'll consider it seriously.

I don't do requests.

How do they work or break in your browser of choice.  Tell me that.
Please.  I don't promise to address any single carp but I do want to be
made aware of any shortcomings.

I'm just not interested in your carp pool.

But, to condemn them out-of-hand? Sorry, I'm not there.

That much is apparent.

 

[dorayme]

The usual rationale is that things like drop-down
menus make documents more "cool" for the users. Users don't want
cool, they want easy.

You promised to piss off!

But I am glad you haven't.

Your above is bullshit. Only a straw man would justify a dropdown
because it was cool. The idea, you nincompoop, is that they are thought
to be useful to users.

 

[dorayme]

<http://dorayme.890m.com/alt/positionFixed.html>

get any jerkiness on scrolling?

Not after I scaled my browser down so I got a scroll bar. ;-)[/QUOTE]

You have a very big monitor, good eyesight, probably a fast CPU; some or
all of these. <g>

 

[Alex Fillmore]

But, still, it's a paradigm I'm familiar with from using all of my Windows
apps and I appreciate that familiar look and feel when I encounter it on
the Web.

My site uses them. Please. Go ahead and try them and tell me how they
work or do not work for you. Seriously, I'm interested in finding fault
with my site and I'll consider it seriously.

How do they work or break in your browser of choice. Tell me that.
Please. I don't promise to address any single carp but I do want to be
made aware of any shortcomings.

But, to condemn them out-of-hand? Sorry, I'm not there.

Dear Ed, yes, you site is exactly what I am looking for.
Can you please give me the source for just the horizontal menu with drop
down submenu?
Thank you, Alex

 

[dorayme]

http://edmullen.net

Dear Ed, yes, you site is exactly what I am looking for.
Can you please give me the source for just the horizontal menu with drop
down submenu?[/QUOTE]

You can just take it, what can he do about it?

<http://edmullen.net/styles/default.css>

 

[dorayme]

Let us agree to disagree.

I cannot accept this! Imagine what would happen to usenet if we followed
this miserable policy? It would become a mere help desk!

 

[Neredbojias]

Actually, I find myself agreeing with you, dorayme.

Oh [expletive-in-the-works]. Another one down the drain...

 

[dorayme]

I STILL need another drink.

I am worried about you, Ed, you have been drinking a lot lately.

 

[Neredbojias]

I am worried about you, Ed, you have been drinking a lot lately.

It's old age. He's probably gotta lotta aches and pains, -stuff like
that. Some geezers don't like to admit to their geezeritis, though.

 

[dorayme]

Ed, ...
Would you recommend use "include" to insert simple css horizontal drop down
menu html code by other pages?

Yes, he would, especially if you have a lot of pages. He is indisposed
at the moment due to drunken sleep.