The chart of comp.lang.c

[Kenny McCormack]

It would surprising if you didn't have at least 50% Republicans / Tories on
the newsgroup.

My comments should be interpreted in the context of US politics.
The statement you made is clearly wrong in that context.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Richard said:

You seem to miss the point. It doesn't need a new NG. Here is where
the C programmers are. C programmers wont necessarily sign up to an
IDE group.

If the C programmers who use this group lack sufficient interest in
discussing C IDEs to wish to discuss them in a group where C IDEs *are*
topical, what makes you think they wish to discuss C IDEs in a group
where C IDEs are *not* topical?

You can't make people talk about stuff they don't want to talk about.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Walter Roberson said:

wrote:

If you so believe, then put together a formal proposal for a
-new- newsgroup, discuss it a bit, and when the rough edges have
been polished off, submit it for new newsgroup consideration.
I've yet to see anyone post a proposed topicality list that didn't
come down to "I don't know what comp.lang.c is about, but I know
off-topic material when I see it."

The reason none of the "comp.lang.c should be about more than just C"
crowd ever does this is because they're not interested in the actual
discussions; they're only interested in criticising those who take part
in them.

 

[Richard]

Walter Roberson said:


The reason none of the "comp.lang.c should be about more than just C"
crowd ever does this is because they're not interested in the actual
discussions; they're only interested in criticising those who take part
in them.

That statement is total rubbish of course. Talking about C IDE is
talking about C. Whichever way you want to cut it. You seem to think
that the NG would crumble into a pile of doggy doo just because some
experienced programmers might offer some advice on an IDE to a C nOOb. I
think you might need to get out more. As I said, this is a good resource
for experienced programmers. It doesn't kill anyone to tolerate the odd
thread about C support whether platform specific or not.

 

[Walter Roberson]

That statement is total rubbish of course. Talking about C IDE is
talking about C. Whichever way you want to cut it.

No, talking about C IDE is talking about C IDE. If you can even
-find- a C IDE these days that isn't instead a "C/C++ IDE"
or a generalized IDE for supporting half a dozen different languages.

 

[Peter J. Holzer]

They can't. There is no there there. A newsgroup is a distributed
entity, so with no centralized repository for messages, it's nearly
impossible.

Messages can be cancelled. Not all servers honor cancel messages,
though.

Besides, who decides what is spam and what isn't?

The most common criterion is the Breidbart Index
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breidbart_Index).

Some indivdual news services do spam filtering on their particular
server's messages. So I may not see a message that you did, because NIN
removed it (or refused it or whatever).

Some people also run cancel bots which automatically detect spam and
send cancel messages.

hp

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Serve Lau said:

I like the forum found at
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/
Why?


You can ask all kinds of question only a little related to C/C++.
theres a network programming section, C, C++, linux, games etc. even
C#

The only thing I dont like there is that the level of
questions/disucssions is often a bit low.

Um, quite so. From what I've seen of the advice given there, I can't say
I have a great deal of confidence in the site.

And yes, you see the same
kind of people there answering the same 'i=i++' question year after
year. Everybody his own hobby I guess

That's what FAQs are for.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Richard said:

As I said, this is a good resource for experienced programmers.

Yes, it is, and I'd like it to remain a good resource for experienced
programmers.

 

[Ian Collins]

IDEs dedicated to C would, IMO, be on topic here. Why? Because C
programmers live here. They know. Their advice is important and
valuable. It would be selfish to deprive people of your knowledge.

The best place to discuss and compare IDEs (or even compilers) is on a
platform specific group. There are many platforms and each has it's own
set of IDEs. Yes some are cross platform, but many aren't.

As someone else pointed out, there are very few C only IDEs in
widespread use.

 

[Serve Lau]

Richard said:


Yes, it is, and I'd like it to remain a good resource for experienced
programmers.

it will become even better, less posts to navigate through that are only
about topicality as way too many are now and if a thread is about a
compiler/IDE you're not interested in you can just mark it as read or skip
it.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Serve Lau said:

if a thread is about
a compiler/IDE you're not interested in you can just mark it as read
or skip it.

And before long you have comp.lang.c++ syndrome. No thanks.

We *already* have a mechanism for skipping over discussions about
compilers and IDEs that don't interest us. This mechanism is called
"not subscribing to newsgroups where compiler and IDE discussions are
topical".

If you want to talk about X, go to a newsgroup where X is topical. If
you want to talk about Y, go to a newsgroup where Y is topical. If you
want to talk about Z, go to a newsgroup where Z is topical. What is so
hard to understand?

 

[Default User]

Messages can be cancelled. Not all servers honor cancel messages,
though.

However, cancel messages are only supposed to be sent by the
originator. Rogue canceling is why some news services ignore all
cancels.



Brian

 

[Kelsey Bjarnason]

[snips]

That statement is total rubbish of course. Talking about C IDE is
talking about C.

Really? Hmm. Since C is defined by an ISO standard, then by your
reasoning above, said standard must define IDEs as well; could you point
out what section of the standard covers this?

If there is no such section, then while the topic may pertain to things
which aid in the use of C, it is not, in fact, about C.

 

[CBFalconer]

Richard wrote:
.... snip ...

Exactly.
Most developers now use IDEs, and that issue is completely ignored.

I doubt that. You may. Most prefer the direct control they get
from separate compilers, editors, etc.

 

[Ed Jensen]

Yes, it is, and I'd like it to remain a good resource for experienced
programmers.

The pissing contest everyone is involved in is likely doing more
"damage" to this newsgroup than any amount of slightly off topic
conversation like "C IDEs".

For those "hard core" types, there's always comp.lang.c.moderated.
Perhaps you could take the "high road" and relocate there?

For the record, this post should not be considered me "taking sides".
My opinion is that both "sides" are acting childish.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

I've been using Thunderbird a bit lately as it has -some- useful
facilities -- but the "message filter" facilities do not work on
newsgroups at all.

[OT] I suspect an operator error. I don't use T'bird, but it is a
descendent of what I do use, and the message filters here are per
newsgroup, not global.
[/OT]

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Ed Jensen said:

The pissing contest everyone is involved in is likely doing more
"damage" to this newsgroup than any amount of slightly off topic
conversation like "C IDEs".

It's certainly making me wonder whether there's any point in trying to
maintain this newsgroup's usefulness any longer. Usenet is dying (film
at 11), and comp.lang.c is just taking longer about it than most other
groups, but the trolls are taking their toll here too now.

For those "hard core" types, there's always comp.lang.c.moderated.
Perhaps you could take the "high road" and relocate there?

It would make more sense for the trolls to relocate there, where their
stupidities could be modded out completely. But yes, it's quite true
that those who actually want to talk about C could go somewhere else,
leaving the C newsgroup to those who want to talk about non-C things.

For the record, this post should not be considered me "taking sides".
My opinion is that both "sides" are acting childish.

This should not be a matter of sides, but a matter of common sense.
Nevertheless, comp.lang.c has been getting noisier in recent years, and
there will come a point where there is so much noise that there's no
point in trying to find a signal - if indeed that point has not already
been reached.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

That statement is total rubbish of course. Talking about C IDE is
talking about C. Whichever way you want to cut it. You seem to
think that the NG would crumble into a pile of doggy doo just
because some experienced programmers might offer some advice on
an IDE to a C nOOb. I think you might need to get out more. As I
said, this is a good resource for experienced programmers. It
doesn't kill anyone to tolerate the odd thread about C support
whether platform specific or not.

Try applying some pure reason. IDEs (regardless of their
usefulness or harmfulness) are machine/installation specific, and
have nothing whatsoever to do with the C language. This
automatically makes their discussion off-topic. QED.

 

[CBFalconer]

.... snip ...

If you want to talk about X, go to a newsgroup where X is topical.
If you want to talk about Y, go to a newsgroup where Y is topical.
If you want to talk about Z, go to a newsgroup where Z is topical.
What is so hard to understand?

That does seem extremely complicated. It doesn't even handle the
subjects V and W.

 

[Ben Pfaff]

For those "hard core" types, there's always comp.lang.c.moderated.
Perhaps you could take the "high road" and relocate there?

I read and posted in comp.lang.c.moderated for quite a while
before I graduated to the unmoderated version. The problem with
clcm, in my opinion, is simply that there's less chance to
interact with people. The latency of conversations is a lot
higher.