upgrade to HTML 4.01 strict

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 5, 2004.

  1. I have just upgraded my pages from the old site:

    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa2/

    to

    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa/

    following the hints of this ng. the validator worked fine both on the
    HTML as on the CSS. Is there aything I should change in order to
    improve it further?

    i.e. place the script (for the external links) into the
    CSS and if so, how does one do this?

    the tags on all the pages except the index page are still CAPS. I did
    run tidy on the index.htm, but is there a way to run tidy on all pages
    at ones?




    --
    Markus Wiedemeier
    pingu_no@spam_pitcasa.com
    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa
    http://www.pitcasa.com/mw
     
    Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 5, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > I have just upgraded my pages from the old site:
    >
    > http://www.pitcasa.com/casa2/
    >
    > to
    >
    > http://www.pitcasa.com/casa/
    >
    > following the hints of this ng. the validator worked fine both on the
    > HTML as on the CSS. Is there aything I should change in order to
    > improve it further?


    Congratulations!

    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 5, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:IQmKb.45064$...
    >
    > "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    > > I have just upgraded my pages from the old site:
    > >
    > > http://www.pitcasa.com/casa2/
    > >
    > > to
    > >
    > > http://www.pitcasa.com/casa/


    May-be you should add a table summary, that´s what I have begun to do on my
    websites too.



    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2004
    #3
  4. Quoth the raven named Luigi Donatello Asero:

    > "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:...
    >
    >>I have just upgraded my pages from the old site:
    >>
    >>http://www.pitcasa.com/casa2/
    >>
    >>to
    >>
    >>http://www.pitcasa.com/casa/
    >>
    >>following the hints of this ng. the validator worked fine both on the
    >>HTML as on the CSS. Is there aything I should change in order to
    >>improve it further?

    >
    > Congratulations!


    Hold up a minute... no champagne yet. <g>

    The pages do not fit within my ~800x600 browser window. Well, some do
    but the content is in tiny narrow unreadable columns on either side of
    the central graphic.

    (Now, where did I put that big old monitor...)

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 6, 2004
    #4
  5. "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:H3nKb.55858$...
    > Quoth the raven named Luigi Donatello Asero:
    >
    > > "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>I have just upgraded my pages from the old site:
    > >>
    > >>http://www.pitcasa.com/casa2/
    > >>
    > >>to
    > >>
    > >>http://www.pitcasa.com/casa/
    > >>
    > >>following the hints of this ng. the validator worked fine both on the
    > >>HTML as on the CSS. Is there aything I should change in order to
    > >>improve it further?

    > >
    > > Congratulations!

    >
    > Hold up a minute... no champagne yet. <g>



    > The pages do not fit within my ~800x600 browser window. Well, some do
    > but the content is in tiny narrow unreadable columns on either side of
    > the central graphic.
    >
    > (Now, where did I put that big old monitor...)



    Of course a liquid design is very important but the new version of the site
    is better anyway.


    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2004
    #5
  6. On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:18:17 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >> The pages do not fit within my ~800x600 browser window. Well, some do
    >> but the content is in tiny narrow unreadable columns on either side of
    >> the central graphic.
    >>
    >> (Now, where did I put that big old monitor...)

    >
    >
    >Of course a liquid design is very important but the new version of the site
    >is better anyway.



    waht is a liquid design?

    how do you apply this, when images are involved?





    --
    Markus Wiedemeier
    pingu_no@spam_pitcasa.com
    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa
    http://www.pitcasa.com/mw
     
    Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #6
  7. Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #7
  8. Markus Wiedemeier

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Mark Parnell, Jan 6, 2004
    #8
  9. "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:09:27 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >May-be you should add a table summary, that´s what I have begun to do on

    my
    > >websites too.

    >
    >
    > what's that good for?


    Accessibility.

    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2004
    #9
  10. On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:35:59 +1100, Mark Parnell
    <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:26:30 +0100, Markus Wiedemeier declared in
    >alt.html:
    >>
    >> waht is a liquid design?

    >
    >http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign



    I followed some of the links and hereis a footnote I found in this
    interesting article:

    http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/flexdesign.html
    -quote

    There are several pages on the web which use the term “any size
    design", and recommend web authors not to make any assumptions
    whatever about the window size of the reader. True any-size design is
    however at present only possible if one avoids the use of images
    altogether; something which is not realistic for many sites. If the
    SVG vector-graphics format becomes popular, it may come closer to
    reality, but photographs will still remain an issue. I therefore
    prefer the term flexible design".

    -unquote

    ths is likely exactly the point why I cannot show the large images
    (mostly 568x400px) in the a different way, unless I change the whole
    layout of all the current pages.

    I think that will be work for the next time I decide to renew the
    site. I guess I will leave it the way it is currently. Pitty for the
    old monitors of course - but I guess that's about as far as I can
    spend time on this.





    --
    Markus Wiedemeier
    pingu_no@spam_pitcasa.com
    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa
    http://www.pitcasa.com/mw
     
    Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #10
  11. Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #11
  12. "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 00:18:17 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >> The pages do not fit within my ~800x600 browser window. Well, some do
    > >> but the content is in tiny narrow unreadable columns on either side of
    > >> the central graphic.
    > >>
    > >> (Now, where did I put that big old monitor...)

    > >
    > >
    > >Of course a liquid design is very important but the new version of the

    site
    > >is better anyway.

    >
    >
    > waht is a liquid design?
    >
    > how do you apply this, when images are involved?


    Personally, I try to have a width of the whole page which never exceeds
    400 pixel, that means that you may need a photo which has a width of 100 or
    300 pixel for example depending on the total widh.
    Besides I try to resize the window to test if the whole page fits the new
    window.
    It seems to work.
    The page http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
    may be an example.





    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2004
    #12
  13. "Markus Wiedemeier" <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 11:35:59 +1100, Mark Parnell
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:26:30 +0100, Markus Wiedemeier declared in
    > >alt.html:
    > >>
    > >> waht is a liquid design?

    > >
    > >http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

    >
    >
    > I followed some of the links and hereis a footnote I found in this
    > interesting article:
    >
    > http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/flexdesign.html
    > -quote
    >
    > There are several pages on the web which use the term "any size
    > design", and recommend web authors not to make any assumptions
    > whatever about the window size of the reader. True any-size design is
    > however at present only possible if one avoids the use of images
    > altogether; something which is not realistic for many sites. If the
    > SVG vector-graphics format becomes popular, it may come closer to
    > reality, but photographs will still remain an issue. I therefore
    > prefer the term flexible design".
    >
    > -unquote
    >
    > ths is likely exactly the point why I cannot show the large images
    > (mostly 568x400px) in the a different way, unless I change the whole
    > layout of all the current pages.
    >
    > I think that will be work for the next time I decide to renew the
    > site. I guess I will leave it the way it is currently. Pitty for the
    > old monitors of course - but I guess that's about as far as I can
    > spend time on this.



    You can use a clickable image.
    When the user clicks on the image, he or she
    opens a larger image in jpg format which is no html file.


    --
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)


    http://www.italymap.dk
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/lagenheteriitalien.html
     
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Jan 6, 2004
    #13
  14. On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:20:56 GMT, "Luigi Donatello Asero"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >You can use a clickable image.
    >When the user clicks on the image, he or she
    > opens a larger image in jpg format which is no html file.


    no, I'd rather redesign the layout. the images are mostly of 550x400
    px, which is suitable (same as the duck in the web page I mentioned
    earlier).

    But the redesign of the web-site is a no-go or me at present. I just
    have the time for this now.




    --
    Markus Wiedemeier
    pingu_no@spam_pitcasa.com
    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa
    http://www.pitcasa.com/mw
     
    Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #14
  15. Quoth the raven named Markus Wiedemeier:

    >>>The pages do not fit within my ~800x600 browser window. Well, some do
    >>>but the content is in tiny narrow unreadable columns on either side of
    >>>the central graphic.
    >>>
    >>>(Now, where did I put that big old monitor...)

    >
    > waht is a liquid design?
    >
    > how do you apply this, when images are involved?


    You didn't respond to my post directly, so I'll tack onto your
    response to Luigi.

    Here's a screenshot, where I've scrolled to the right.
    http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/images/casa.jpg 42KB

    Notice the very narrow column, which is almost impossible to read. It
    also looks as if you are attempting to justify the text. That's not
    good - harder to read. There is also that large empty area between the
    top menu and the graphic.

    I would recommend that you have one column only, and place the text
    above and below the image, with the image centered in the viewport, or
    with the images at the left margin and the text flowing around
    it/them. That should work, given the sizes of the images. On those
    pages that have secondary navigation, place that horizontally under
    the main menu.

    And then you get a bonus. No tables needed for layout. <g>

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Jan 6, 2004
    #15
  16. On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:45:32 GMT, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >You didn't respond to my post directly, so I'll tack onto your
    >response to Luigi.
    >
    >Here's a screenshot, where I've scrolled to the right.
    >http://home.rochester.rr.com/bshagnasty/images/casa.jpg 42KB
    >
    >Notice the very narrow column, which is almost impossible to read. It
    >also looks as if you are attempting to justify the text. That's not
    >good - harder to read. There is also that large empty area between the
    >top menu and the graphic.
    >
    >I would recommend that you have one column only, and place the text
    >above and below the image, with the image centered in the viewport, or
    >with the images at the left margin and the text flowing around
    >it/them. That should work, given the sizes of the images. On those
    >pages that have secondary navigation, place that horizontally under
    >the main menu.
    >
    >And then you get a bonus. No tables needed for layout. <g>



    this would be a fine solution for the first page, but the following
    pages have a nagivation bar on the left hand side, which I would have
    to place below the image, maybe even on more then 1 line, which makes
    it rather difficult for other users.

    Since I sort of like the style to be identical for the front page as
    well as for the following pages, I cannot se a different solution,
    then entirely rework the entire pages, which is a rather long job.

    For the time being I will be satisfied if it displays well on larger
    screens. It might not be perfect, but that's all I can think of at the
    moment.

    I'l play further with it and if I get to a solution I will let you
    know, but I'd really like to maintain some of the current layout as
    much as possible.

    --
    Markus Wiedemeier
    pingu_no@spam_pitcasa.com
    http://www.pitcasa.com/casa
    http://www.pitcasa.com/mw
     
    Markus Wiedemeier, Jan 6, 2004
    #16
  17. Markus Wiedemeier <pingu_NO@SPAM_pitcasa.com> wrote:

    > what does it [the summary attribute] do to improve the accessibility?


    In theory, we're supposed to use quite some extra markup in data tables
    for accessibility, see
    http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-table-markup
    and in principle they have good arguments.

    In practice, its real impact is still limited, and it's partly even
    poorly designed in principle. For example, the summary attribute
    "provides a summary of the table's purpose and structure for user
    agents rendering to non-visual media such as speech and Braille", which
    is rather vague. Why should the purpose be explained? Shouldn't it be
    explained to everyone, _before_ the table, in normal visible text.
    Besides, few user agents make use of the summary attribute. Mozilla,
    for example, shows its content if you click on the table with the
    right-hand button of the mouse and select "Properties", but it shows it
    brutally truncated to one line.

    I think it's still a good idea to use summary attributes in new pages.
    It may help some people, and it works as documentation, too. As a rule
    of thumb, I would suggest putting there a description of the table to
    the extent that the normal text on the page, before the table and in
    its caption, is not sufficient for people who do not see the table as a
    whole (such as blind people).

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jan 7, 2004
    #17
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