Form in Html 4.01 strict and CSS

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Hi!
Should a form be made with tables or with CSS?
If you think that the latter solution would be better, may-be you can
indicate some

references (tutorials or W3 pages) which help me redesign the page
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
in Html 4.01 strict and CSS.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Andrew Glasgow]

Hi!
Should a form be made with tables or with CSS?
If you think that the latter solution would be better, may-be you can
indicate some

references (tutorials or W3 pages) which help me redesign the page
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
in Html 4.01 strict and CSS.

Forms should be done using form elements. I presume you mean the layout
of the forms? The same arguments for tables v. css apply to form layout
as they do to every other layout issue.

Tables have the advantage of being better supported by older and buggy
browers. CSS has the advantage of being more flexible, more useful and
not being misleading markup.

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Forms should be done using form elements. I presume you mean the layout
of the forms? The same arguments for tables v. css apply to form layout
as they do to every other layout issue.

Yes, I meant the layout and redesigned the page here
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html

Tables have the advantage of being better supported by older and buggy
browers. CSS has the advantage of being more flexible, more useful and
not being misleading markup.

What do you mean by misleading markup?

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Should a form be made with tables or with CSS?

IMO a table is perfectly acceptable. A textbox is related to its
description.

references (tutorials or W3 pages) which help me redesign the page
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html

That looks real bad :-(
Nico

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

IMO a table is perfectly acceptable. A textbox is related to its
description.


That looks real bad :-(
Nico

What do you not like?
I thought you usually preferred a CSS to tables for the layout.


--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

"Nico Schuyt" skrev

What do you not like?

It's *very very very* disorderly.

I thought you usually preferred a CSS to tables for the layout.

Most of the time I do. In this particular case I think the form represents
tabular data.
(And bad CSS is always worse than a good table
Nico

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

It's *very very very* disorderly.


Most of the time I do. In this particular case I think the form represents
tabular data.
(And bad CSS is always worse than a good table
Nico

Well, the question is whether the form represents tabular data or not.
As to the design in CSS I do not understand why you find it "*very very
very* disorderly."
How many people in this NG think that this form represents tabular data?
Of course if they are tabular data I should try to convert in a table, if
not, I should try to improve the design in CSS and in this case mya-be you
have some suggestions.

--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

It's *very very very* disorderly.

Which browser did you use to load the page?


--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Matthias Gutfeldt]

http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
Well, the question is whether the form represents tabular data or not.

I tend to think that forms are not really tabular data. But I also think
it's a lot easier to lay them out using tables.


Matthias

 

[Nico Schuyt]

"Nico Schuyt" wrote

Which browser did you use to load the page?

IE6. In (for example) Mozilla and IE4 it's even worse.
Nico

 

[Nico Schuyt]

"Nico Schuyt" skrev

Well, the question is whether the form represents tabular data or not.
As to the design in CSS I do not understand why you find it "*very
very very* disorderly."

Because it is Description and textboxes should be vertically aligned.
Compare with any other form on the web (e.g.
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/contact.php#mailformulier)

How many people in this NG think that this form represents tabular
data? Of course if they are tabular data I should try to convert in a
table, if not, I should try to improve the design in CSS and in this
case mya-be you have some suggestions.

You can make a proper looking form in CSS as well as with tables.
Experiment a litlle with floating divs.
Good luck!
Nico

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

IE6. In (for example) Mozilla and IE4 it's even worse.
Nico

I made some changes on http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
What about now?


--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[kayodeok]

Hi!
Should a form be made with tables or with CSS?
If you think that the latter solution would be better, may-be
you can indicate some references (tutorials or W3 pages)

I don't know whether Tables/CSS is the best solution for forms but I
had a non-productive day at work this week so took the opportunity to
read http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html and I discovered
Labels which seem to me to be a suitable alternative to using Tables
because Labels can be styled and in addition, they are accessible.

Styling Form Fieldsets, Legends and Labels
http://pixy.cz/blogg/clanky/css-fieldsetandlabels.html

Always use the form Label tag
http://www.actsofvolition.com/archives/2003/june/alwaysusethe

Simple Tricks for More Usable Forms
http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1273/
(you need page 2 of this article)

Anyway, here is my test form based on the W3C standard and the links
above:
http://www.kayodeok.co.uk/test/usenet/forms_example.php
It was put together on a boring day and though I have cleaned it up
for the purpose of presenting it here, it could still use some work.

 

[picayunish]

I made some changes on http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
What about now?

Yake.
http://www.evandervaart.nl/news/scaiecat.png

 

[Nico Schuyt]

I made some changes on http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html
What about now?

Not improved. Badly arranged. You're waisting 60% of space on the screen:
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/test/form.png
Nico

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

Not improved. Badly arranged. You're waisting 60% of space on the screen:
http://www.nicoschuyt.nl/test/form.png
Nico

Why is that a problem?
--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

Nico Schuyt skrev i meddelandet

Why is that a problem?

(Sigh) Because it looks awfull and very unprofessional and it's not
efficient and my scroll mouse is overheated when I reach the end of the
bloody form.
Nico

 

[Luigi Donatello Asero]

(Sigh) Because it looks awfull and very unprofessional and it's not
efficient and my scroll mouse is overheated when I reach the end of the
bloody form.
Nico

Well, it would have been nice if you had specified why you like something or
not,
instead of defining something as "professional" or not.
Defining something as "professional" or not still does not say why something
is more useful than something else, does it?

When you scroll the form, you do not do it to fill it but if you had been
someone who is interested to fill it in, you had probably read it carefully
all of his parts.
and filled it, so it had taken some time anyway, no matter how long it is!

Which mouse do you use?


--
Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)






http://www.italymap.dk
http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html

 

[Nico Schuyt]

"Nico Schuyt"

Defining something as "professional" or not still does not say why
something is more useful than something else, does it?

No. But I also mentioned things like "Badly arranged; Waisting 60% of space
on the screen; Items should be vertically aligned"

When you scroll the form, you do not do it to fill it but if you had
been someone who is interested to fill it in, you had probably read
it carefully all of his parts.

Before I fill in a form I use to read it. There may be questions at the end
I don't want to answer.

Which mouse do you use?

An STSHSM (Super Tech Special High Speed Mouse) with additional accelarator
software. Even that one has problems with such forms.

Cheers, Nico
BTW Add some validation to the form (at least e-mail address) and let the
script send a copy of the message to the sender. Easy for them to know later
what they sent you.

 

[Andrew Glasgow]

Yes, I meant the layout and redesigned the page here
http://www.italymap.dk/sv/formular.html


What do you mean by misleading markup?

<table>stuff</table> means that the stuff is tabular data. If you're
using that table for layout rather than tabular data the markup is
misleading.

It's like using <code> to get a fixed width font or <blockquote> to
create margins for text. You're lying about what the contents of that
element are.