W3C does not like embed

1

123Jim

C

C A Upsdell

Hi all,
I have this on my page:
<embed src="mymid.mid" autostart="false" repeat="false" loop="false"
height="15" width="200">I know this is deprecated ...
Click to expand...

EMBED is not deprecated: it was never in the HTML standards. As best
as I remember, EMBED was one of Netscape's non-standard concoctions.
 
I

idle

Hi all,
I have this on my page:
<embed src="mymid.mid" autostart="false" repeat="false" loop="false"
height="15" width="200">I know this is deprecated, but I had trouble using
the object tag as described here:
http://www.w3schools.com/media/media_browsersounds.aspHow do I write the
object tag for midi? .. and can I get rid of classid ?I know that the flash
satay method for embeding flash does not use
classid:http://www.alistapart.com/articles/flashsatay (bottom of page)
Click to expand...

<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15" width="200">
<param value="mymid.mid">
</object>

try above.
;)
 
1

123Jim

C A Upsdell said:
EMBED is not deprecated: it was never in the HTML standards. As best as
I remember, EMBED was one of Netscape's non-standard concoctions.
Click to expand...

Looks like it might make the standard for HTML 5:
http://www.w3schools.com/html5/html5_reference.asp

which is slightly confusing since it already works and has worked since the
beginning of time in IE and Firefox, and probably most of the other
browsers.
 
1

123Jim

idle said:
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15" width="200">
<param value="mymid.mid">
</object>

try above.
;)
Click to expand...

Tried it , unfortunately on my system it does not work. When opened in IE I
get an infinite message about "Internet has restricted this web page ....."
i click to allow it appears immediately again ...

It just does not even appear in Firefox.
By contrast the embed tag invokes QuickTime on my system (I believe)
Below is the complete test page:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="content-type">
<title>testpage</title>
</head>
<body>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid"
height="15" width="200"><param
value="mymid.mid">
</object><br>
</body>
</html>
 
I

idle

Tried it , unfortunately on my system it does not work. When opened in IE I
get an infinite message about "Internet has restricted this web page ....."
i click to allow it appears immediately again ...

It just does not even appear in Firefox.
By contrast the embed tag invokes QuickTime on my system (I believe)
Below is the complete test page:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="content-type">
<title>testpage</title>
</head>
<body>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid"
height="15" width="200"><param
value="mymid.mid">
</object><br>
</body>
</html>
Click to expand...

Fiddle with it ;)
http://joliclic.free.fr/html/object-tag/en/
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Looks like it might make the standard for HTML 5:
http://www.w3schools.com/html5/html5_reference.asp
Click to expand...

Please understand the w3schools.com is not associated with the W3, w3
appears only in w3schools.com's name.

Actually, embed is in a last call for comments status, so it has not
made any standard. A last call for comments means it could go poof! at
any minute.
which is slightly confusing since it already works and has worked
since the beginning of time in IE and Firefox, and probably most of
the other browsers.
Click to expand...

HTML5 makes some interesting changes to some elements, for example, the
menu element is now redefined to be useful for toolbars and context
menus (very nicely), where before it rendered the same as a UL list.

See http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/interactive-elements.html#menus

The point being that what works now may not work in the future, so I
would not count on an element that did not exist in HTML4 to "work" the
same as it's proprietary ancestor.
 
H

Harlan Messinger

Adrienne said:
Please understand the w3schools.com is not associated with the W3, w3
appears only in w3schools.com's name.

Actually, embed is in a last call for comments status, so it has not
made any standard. A last call for comments means it could go poof! at
any minute.
Click to expand...

It IS? Are they also proposing to include LAYER? I thought the whole
point was that OBJECT is the means the W3 chose for embedding objects.
What is the motivation for considering the (inferior) EMBED tag?
 
G

Gus Richter

Thanks for you replies ..
I imagined there would be a very tried and tested method for midi as part
of object though ...

Embed just works as tested i IE 8, Chrome, Firefox ..... tempted to forget
about it .. and pretend I am trail blazing for HTML 5 ;)
Click to expand...
Exactly.
Embed was never a W3C standard. It was Netscape proprietary, but ALL
browsers support it. Because of this, it's going into HTML5 specs. In
standards or not, it works in all browsers. So what if one item does not
pass validation for HTML 4.01 at this time. There is a lot worse out
there. Else use the HTML5 doctype.
 
D

dorayme

Harlan Messinger said:
Adrienne Boswell wrote: ....

It IS? Are they also proposing to include LAYER? I thought the whole
point was that OBJECT is the means the W3 chose for embedding objects.
What is the motivation for considering the (inferior) EMBED tag?
Click to expand...

Because even my pet frog knows about embed, but goes a croaky
silence when I mention object...
 
H

Harlan Messinger

dorayme said:
Because even my pet frog knows about embed, but goes a croaky
silence when I mention object...
Click to expand...
HA! Everyone KNOWS about it because it's famous as the stupid thing you
had to bother with for Netscape and for balky plug-ins whose
manufacturers didn't bother to upgrade them for proper use with OBJECT.
 
1

123Jim

Harlan Messinger said:
HA! Everyone KNOWS about it because it's famous as the stupid thing you
had to bother with for Netscape and for balky plug-ins whose manufacturers
didn't bother to upgrade them for proper use with OBJECT.
Click to expand...


can I just interject here .. I *still* have *not* found the correct mark-up
to enable midi with OBJECT. and that is despite consulting with the finest
minds in web dev .... Meanwhile my simple EMBED mark-up is serving midi
files to the world!
 
H

Harlan Messinger

123Jim said:
can I just interject here .. I *still* have *not* found the correct mark-up
to enable midi with OBJECT. and that is despite consulting with the finest
minds in web dev .... Meanwhile my simple EMBED mark-up is serving midi
files to the world!
Click to expand...

Like I said: the manufacturer hasn't bothered to upgrade its MIDI
plug-in, despite the many years it has had to do so. Certainly there is
nothing magical about the letters E-M-B-E-D that allows MIDI files to
work when a tag whose name is spelled with them is used to embed them.
For W3C to now add EMBED to HTML5 is like a web designer in 2010 wasting
his customers' money by making sure his pages look as good to people who
haven't upgraded from Netscape 3 as they do to users of Firefox 3 or IE 8.
 
I

idle

can I just interject here .. I *still* have *not* found the correct mark-up
to enable midi with OBJECT. and that is despite consulting with the finest
minds in web dev .... Meanwhile my simple EMBED mark-up is serving midi
files to the world!
Click to expand...

<p>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15"
width="200">
<param name="src" value="mymid.mid">
</object>
</p>

strict. works. yawn.
 
1

123Jim

idle said:
<p>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15"
width="200">
<param name="src" value="mymid.mid">
</object>
</p>

strict. works. yawn.
Click to expand...

That works in Chrome!
..... but it does not work in Firefox or IE here.

I expect midi to be handled by quicktime on this system, so I have tested my
browsers here: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/troubleshooting/
For quicktime at least .. they are all fine .. chrome, firefox and IE8

Which browsers are you testing?
 
I

idle

That works in Chrome!
.... but it does not work in Firefox or IE here.

I expect midi to be handled by quicktime on this system, so I have tested my
browsers here: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/troubleshooting/
For quicktime at least .. they are all fine .. chrome, firefox and IE8

Which browsers are you testing?
Click to expand...

Testing? Browsers?
;)
That's valid code for the object.
I'd think you'd fill in the valid param's to meet your needs.
 
D

dorayme

Harlan Messinger said:
HA! Everyone KNOWS about it because it's famous as the stupid thing you
had to bother with for Netscape and for balky plug-ins whose
manufacturers didn't bother to upgrade them for proper use with OBJECT.
Click to expand...

Harlan, you can fight it and I am there in spirit with you. But
we are up against one of the most powerful memes in the history
of human culture. Every mention of it adds to its memic brownie
points (a bit like Paris Hilton).

One thing it has going for it is sheer intuitiveness, look at how
the name identifies its function. People like this. "Object"
indeed! What is that supposed to mean, cold heartless meaningless
geeky thing, yuk. <g>
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

idle said:
<p>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15"
width="200">
<param name="src" value="mymid.mid">
</object>
</p>

strict. works. yawn.
Click to expand...


Yep, on IE two things though:

[1] height needs to be height="25" because WMP console is bigger than
Quicktime. And [1](and this one would be a deal breaker for me *IF* I
used IE) the damn MID auto starts. So you need to add:

<param name="autostart" value="false">

I would really *despise* stumbling upon the page to have SomeLousy.mid
start blaring from my speakers. I would prefer the simpler and always
reliable:

<a href="SomeLousy.mid">Listen to my lousy music</a> [MID 135Kb]
 
I

idle

idle said:
<p>
<object type="audio/x-midi" data="mymid.mid" height="15"
width="200">
<param name="src" value="mymid.mid">
</object>
</p>

strict. works. yawn.
Click to expand...

Yep, on IE two things though:

[1] height needs to be height="25" because WMP console is bigger than
Quicktime. And [1](and this one would be a deal breaker for me *IF* I
used IE) the damn MID auto starts. So you need to add:

<param name="autostart" value="false">

I would really *despise* stumbling upon the page to have SomeLousy.mid
start blaring from my speakers. I would prefer the simpler and always
reliable:

<a href="SomeLousy.mid">Listen to my lousy music</a> [MID 135Kb]
Click to expand...

oh yea.
Which is why you give them just enough to hurt themselves ;) and hopefully
they don't figure out how to inflict damage upon the rest of the internet.
 

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