WebOS Project seeking for developers

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Rorist, Dec 21, 2008.

  1. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    Hello,

    I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market" and I'm looking
    for motivated developers/designers.
    The project is well ahead, base direction are set. What I would need
    is great ideas and motivated coders to consolidate the core,
    and solve high end problems about WebOS'es in general. Here is a quick
    presentation of the technologies involved and key features:
    - Using Google's Protocol Buffers for internal data
    - Using mootools 1.2 as a base
    - Fully Open Source Software, see below
    - Framework oriented project, so it would be easy to create
    applications for the OS. (GUI, Windows, Widgets, ...)
    - Modular, load and install application easily
    - Multiuser based (need security work)
    - Bazaar as the VCS, Launchpad as the developement platform
    - Server side is currently in PHP, but this is not the main part of
    the project. So it's possible to migrate to Python.
    - Using the Apple's work on Human Interface to create the best user
    experience possible (lot of work here)

    The future of the project has to be made, I like the idea of Cloud
    Computing, and that's the point of Python. At the moment, it's all
    about the user interface, but the control over the server behind would
    be very important, and that could be your mission if you are
    interested.

    I'm looking for designers too. Actually, it's quite ready to create
    some "themes" by just creating an other "default theme". It's all made
    from the begining to have theme. Any help welcome on that, even just a
    pure image model, or a complete CSS/XHTML theme. I already have a logo
    designer, you can contact him if you are interested.

    The project is FULLY open source, and even more, the core is under the
    Public Domain.

    Enough talk, for more information, you can go to:
    main site: http://takos.info
    developement: https://launchpad.net/takos
    contact me: https://launchpad.net/~jbaubort

    Hope to hear from you soon.
    Amicably, JBA
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #1
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  2. Rorist wrote:
    > I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market" and I'm looking
    > for motivated developers/designers.
    > [...]
    > Here is a quick presentation of the technologies involved and key
    > features:
    > - Using Google's Protocol Buffers for internal data
    > - Using mootools 1.2 as a base


    No, thanks.


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Dec 21, 2008
    #2
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  3. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    I bet you don't like Mootools,
    but can you please elaborate the No ?
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #3
  4. Rorist wrote:
    > I bet you don't like Mootools,


    Preferences don't enter into it. I don't develop for or with monolithic
    junk code if I can avoid it.

    > but can you please elaborate the No ?


    Ohh, /that/? It's a common expression of denial.


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Dec 21, 2008
    #4
  5. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    > Preferences don't enter into it.  I don't develop for or with monolithic
    > junk code if I can avoid it.


    I can argument the choice of a framework, Mootools particularly.

    - mootools is light enough that it's flexible, i'm not stuck with
    complicated methods that i have to hack all around
    - crossbrowser is painless with a good framework
    - mootools is one of the fastest around with Dojo
    - don't reinvent the wheel
    - Mootools is modular, so I don't have to use all of the framework
    (wich I actually did for now, until i know wich part I really don't
    need)

    > Ohh, /that/? It's a common expression of denial.

    No, I'm a learner, and such limited response don't really help me get
    the point of what could be improved or understand why my choices would
    be wrong from your point of view. :)

    Thanks anyway for giving me a reason to argument such an important
    part of my little project.

    Cheer.
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #5
  6. Rorist

    David Mark Guest

    On Dec 21, 10:17 am, Rorist <> wrote:
    > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    > > Preferences don't enter into it.  I don't develop for or with monolithic
    > > junk code if I can avoid it.

    >
    > I can argument the choice of a framework, Mootools particularly.
    >
    > - mootools is light enough that it's flexible, i'm not stuck with


    Light enough? Everything is relative.

    > complicated methods that i have to hack all around


    It is an homage to Prototype, so it has lots of unneeded nonsense to
    "work around" prototypal inheritance. As with Prototype, syntactic
    sugar is used at the lowest levels, which is a far cry from efficient.

    > - crossbrowser is painless with a good framework


    Name a good cross-browser framework. Last I checked, MooTools used
    brain-dead browser sniffing, so it is at best multi-browser and the
    affected code is instantly dated.

    > - mootools is one of the fastest around with Dojo


    This is the type of generalized nonsense I have come to expect from
    advocates of these sorts of frameworks. Relatively speaking, Dojo and
    MooTools are slugs.

    > - don't reinvent the wheel


    Pollywannacracker? MooTools is neither useful, nor an invention.

    > - Mootools is modular, so I don't have to use all of the framework


    I'll give it that, but who needs modular junk?

    > (wich I actually did for now, until i know wich part I really don't
    > need)


    Good luck with that!

    >
    > > Ohh, /that/?  It's a common expression of denial.

    >
    > No, I'm a learner, and such limited response don't really help me get


    Paradoxically, you lecture about MooTools as if you are an authority
    on browser scripting.

    > the point of what could be improved or understand why my choices would
    > be wrong from your point of view. :)


    Try searching the archive (or learning the first thing about browser
    scripting.)

    >
    > Thanks anyway for giving me a reason to argument such an important
    > part of my little project.


    You have thrown the game away. Your "little" Web OS project is doomed
    from the start.

    >
    > Cheer.


    Boo.
     
    David Mark, Dec 21, 2008
    #6
  7. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    THAT's actually argumentation. Thanks for your anwser David.

    > Relatively speaking, Dojo and MooTools are slugs.

    Relative to what ? My comparaison was relative to other JS frameworks.

    I can understand lot's of people don't find fw usefull, so why bother
    starting an other flamewar on the subject ?
    If your have such concern, you may help me build a low level framework
    wich will handle all the crossbrowser routines.

    >Paradoxically, you lecture about MooTools as if you are an authority on browser scripting.

    I'm certainly not, but as I tested some of the fw out there, it was a
    good start without having to spend monthes bother with crossbrowser
    (yes, it's all about that).

    >Try searching the archive (or learning the first thing about browser scripting.)

    I learned a lot on that project, I wasn't aware JS could be that
    powerfull.
    A lot of people complaining that JS is not intented to do what we use
    it for now (and it's probably true), but it can.

    >You have thrown the game away. Your "little" Web OS project is doomed from the start.

    You are probably right, because the main goal of the project is to
    have FUN and LEARN such things.

    Best regards.
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #7
  8. Rorist wrote:
    >> You have thrown the game away. Your "little" Web OS project is doomed
    >> from the start.

    > You are probably right, because the main goal of the project is to have
    > FUN and LEARN such things.


    (Please don't SHOUT here.)

    But that is the problem with not only using these libraries but having an
    operating system(!) be based on them. For their authors have yet to take
    the first step in the learning curve themselves, that is, to take everything
    that one reads about JavaScript with a handful of salt.

    So, if you really want to learn something in this project, you will have to
    start from scratch; at least you will have to do *thorough* investigation on
    every piece of foreign code that you use, and your own code. And in order
    to make an assessment about code quality and best practices, you will have
    to learn the basics of the language and the APIs that can be used with it.
    This newsgroup can help there.

    Please learn to post: <http://jibbering.com/faq/#posting>


    PointedEars
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Dec 21, 2008
    #8
  9. Rorist

    David Mark Guest

    On Dec 21, 11:17 am, Rorist <> wrote:
    > THAT's actually argumentation. Thanks for your anwser David.


    WHAT is?

    >
    > > Relatively speaking, Dojo and MooTools are slugs.

    >
    > Relative to what ? My comparaison was relative to other JS frameworks.


    That is difficult at best to test empirically. But by inspecting the
    scripts, you can determine that the upper bounds of their efficiency
    are well below what can be accomplished with well-designed, context-
    specific code.

    >
    > I can understand lot's of people don't find fw usefull, so why bother
    > starting an other flamewar on the subject ?


    You don't understand. The "flame wars" you refer to are nothing but
    the shrill ravings of the hopelessly indoctrinated. They are
    typically waged by people without proper names or the ability to write
    coherent sentences (e.g. jQuery Rulez!!!!) On the contrary, numerous
    real arguments have been posted here over the years that serve to
    debunk these frameworks beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    > If your have such concern, you may help me build a low level framework
    > wich will handle all the crossbrowser routines.


    May I? Perhaps I already have.

    >
    > >Paradoxically, you lecture about MooTools as if you are an authority on browser scripting.

    >
    > I'm certainly not, but as I tested some of the fw out there, it was a
    > good start without having to spend monthes bother with crossbrowser
    > (yes, it's all about that).


    But if your goal is cross-browser compatibility, these frameworks fall
    well short. It doesn't matter how many bloggers and neophytes claim
    otherwise.

    >
    > >Try searching the archive (or learning the first thing about browser scripting.)

    >
    > I learned a lot on that project, I wasn't aware JS could be that
    > powerfull.


    What project?

    > A lot of people complaining that JS is not intented to do what we use
    > it for now (and it's probably true), but it can.


    People complain about all sorts of things, including posts in this
    group that denigrate frameworks.

    >
    > >You have thrown the game away.  Your "little" Web OS project is doomedfrom the start.

    >
    > You are probably right, because the main goal of the project is to
    > have FUN and LEARN such things.


    Then I am right. It is no fun at all relying on a black box of
    browser sniffing.

    [snip]
     
    David Mark, Dec 21, 2008
    #9
  10. On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 at 19:30:21, in comp.lang.javascript, Rorist wrote:
    >Hello,
    >
    >I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market" and

    <snip>

    What is a WebOS ?

    John
    --
    John Harris
     
    John G Harris, Dec 21, 2008
    #10
  11. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    John G Harris wrote:
    > What is a WebOS ?


    Hello,

    there are many definitions. Basically it's an Operating System that is
    accessed from a remote server.

    For TakOS (my project), you have a "fake" OS in your web browser,
    using windows, icons, taskbar, contextual menus; to have all your data
    accessible everywhere, in the same environnement. WebOS are also known
    as Web Desktop. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_desktop for more
    information.
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #11
  12. Rorist

    David Mark Guest

    On Dec 21, 1:02 pm, Rorist <> wrote:
    > John G Harris wrote:
    > > What is a WebOS ?

    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > there are many definitions. Basically it's an Operating System that is
    > accessed from a remote server.


    That's not one of them.

    >
    > For TakOS (my project), you have a "fake" OS in your web browser,


    Interesting take.

    > using windows, icons, taskbar, contextual menus; to have all your data


    I'd like to see that.

    > accessible everywhere, in the same environnement. WebOS are also known
    > as Web Desktop. Seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_desktopfor more
    > information.


    I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia (of all things) for such information.
     
    David Mark, Dec 21, 2008
    #12
  13. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    > > there are many definitions. Basically it's an Operating System that is
    > > accessed from a remote server.

    >
    > That's not one of them.


    Ok, s/Operating System/network service/. Happy ? Give me yours.

    This is getting boring. I understand your point about mootools and
    everything. But if I'm mistaken about an information, just correct it,
    instead of beeing rude for nothing.

    This is totaly non constructive, as is your other post about mootols.
    Ok there may be some tricks here and there, but it was what you looked
    for, you found it, bravo.

    I'm now happy with mootools, it saved some time so I can move forward
    to the point of my webapp. I'm now looking for help, and this
    discussion is everything but helpfull.
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #13
  14. Rorist

    David Mark Guest

    On Dec 21, 1:50 pm, Rorist <> wrote:
    > > > there are many definitions. Basically it's an Operating System that is
    > > > accessed from a remote server.

    >
    > > That's not one of them.

    >
    > Ok, s/Operating System/network service/. Happy ? Give me yours.


    No and no.

    >
    > This is getting boring. I understand your point about mootools and


    Yes.

    [snip]

    >
    > This is totaly non constructive


    What is "totaly (sic) non constructive?" Anything that finds fault in
    your posted assertions?

    > , as is your other post about mootols.


    If you have anything to add to that, feel free.

    > Ok there may be some tricks here and there, but it was what you looked
    > for, you found it, bravo.


    On the contrary, I started at line 1 and read until it turned my
    stomach. As documented, "tricks" were found everywhere.

    >
    > I'm now happy with mootools, it saved some time so I can move forward


    And what makes you happy with it? Is that something you wish to
    discuss? In light of the obviously poor code quality and your
    admitted inability to judge code at all, it is hard to understand what
    gives you this feeling.

    > to the point of my webapp. I'm now looking for help, and this
    > discussion is everything but helpfull.


    You are the latest in a very long line of ambitious neophytes who come
    in here, ask a few basic questions, get answers that raise further
    questions and then summarily dismiss all of them as unhelpful.

    Good luck!
     
    David Mark, Dec 21, 2008
    #14
  15. Rorist meinte:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market" and I'm looking
    > for motivated developers/designers.
    > The project is well ahead, base direction are set. What I would need
    > is great ideas and motivated coders to consolidate the core,
    > and solve high end problems about WebOS'es in general. Here is a quick
    > presentation of the technologies involved and key features:
    > - Using Google's Protocol Buffers for internal data
    > - Using mootools 1.2 as a base


    I'm sure you gonna find plenty of interested hax0rz ready to join your
    project of a "WebOS" - however, not here.

    Gregor
     
    Gregor Kofler, Dec 21, 2008
    #15
  16. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    > You are the latest in a very long line of ambitious neophytes who come
    > in here, ask a few basic questions, get answers that raise further
    > questions and then summarily dismiss all of them as unhelpful.

    I didn't ask any question, and you didn't give any answer, but

    > Good luck!

    Thanks

    I was looking around for some of your work, and wasn't able to find
    any, but trolls.
    I should have known this place is a plato's cavern.
     
    Rorist, Dec 21, 2008
    #16
  17. Rorist wrote:
    >> You are the latest in a very long line of ambitious neophytes who come
    >> in here, ask a few basic questions, get answers that raise further
    >> questions and then summarily dismiss all of them as unhelpful.

    > I didn't ask any question, and you didn't give any answer, but


    You did ask questions, and you have been given answers. That you don't like
    the answers is your problem alone.

    > I was looking around for some of your work, and wasn't able to find
    > any, but trolls.


    *You* are the luser.

    > I should have known this place is a plato's cavern.


    FOAD


    PointedEars, f1
     
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Dec 21, 2008
    #17
  18. Rorist

    David Mark Guest

    On Dec 21, 4:18 pm, Rorist <> wrote:
    > > You are the latest in a very long line of ambitious neophytes who come
    > > in here, ask a few basic questions, get answers that raise further
    > > questions and then summarily dismiss all of them as unhelpful.

    >
    > I didn't ask any question, and you didn't give any answer, but


    Then what was that "Thanks for your anwser David" business?

    >
    > > Good luck!

    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > I was looking around for some of your work, and wasn't able to find
    > any, but trolls.


    I'd look again.

    [snip]
     
    David Mark, Dec 21, 2008
    #18
  19. Rorist

    jhuni Guest

    On Dec 20, 5:30 pm, Rorist <> wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    > I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market" and I'm looking
    > for motivated developers/designers.
    > The project is well ahead, base direction are set. What I would need
    > is great ideas and motivated coders to consolidate the core,
    > and solve high end problems about WebOS'es in general. Here is a quick
    > presentation of the technologies involved and key features:


    Hi I downloaded your source code and I am quite interested in this I
    took a while to look over your code. Anyways I have "<s>great</s>
    ideas" in many areas to improve your project.

    Documentation:
    Your inline documentation quite frankly is quite lacking and from the
    looks of it you used a script to extract most of the documentation.
    Just look at the module os.widget that you made, putting that many
    asterisks makes the code hard to read. There is more asterisks in some
    parts of the code then there is text.

    Anyways, please see POD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_Old_Documentation
    I think this will greatly help I personally use it and it already has
    tons of formats for it so you can convert it to HTML and tons of other
    formats. Anyways in this respect you have something like:

    /*
    =head1 NAME
    os.context - contextual menus
    =head1 SYNOPSIS
    This is basically where you put your example code so that people see
    basically what it looks like.
    =head1 DESCRIPTION
    Please describe your modules more then just a sentence.
    */

    If you do this then I will just be able to go into your module and it
    will have a common format that makes sense, POD is what most
    developers see all the time so rather then make them make sense of
    your personal format why not help us out and use the POD layout? A
    synopsis on the top of all your files would help. The next thing that
    would be really awesome is an explanation of all your dependencies,
    does this module have to be a part of the whole os? If so why is it in
    the os namespace? In my operating system Widget.Dialog is separated
    from the os namespace. Oh and a copyright notice saying 'Public
    Domain' and and author notice 'Rorist' will also help.

    If you do this then I hope to be able to try out the modules myself
    (it is too hard to figure out right now).
     
    jhuni, Dec 22, 2008
    #19
  20. Rorist

    Rorist Guest

    Hi,

    > Documentation:
    > Your inline documentation quite frankly is quite lacking and from the
    > looks of it you used a script to extract most of the documentation.
    > Just look at the module os.widget that you made, putting that many
    > asterisks makes the code hard to read. There is more asterisks in some
    > parts of the code then there is text.


    In fact, I use naturaldocs syntax.
    http://naturaldocs.org/documenting.html

    Asterisks may be to much ok. i'll take time strip them out with more
    traditionnal
    /*
    Title here
    */


    > (snip) POD is what most developers see all the time (snip)

    I'm not a years developer (23 yo) but I never saw that, interesting,
    but imao less human readable than NaturalDocs. Thanks anyway.


    > The next thing that would be really awesome is an explanation of all your dependencies,
    > does this module have to be a part of the whole os?

    Everything is kernel/lib is part of the core yes. For example, the
    menu uses os.menu, wich depends on os.widget. The taskbar will soon be
    a widget too, so we can add more taskbar, move them, etc.


    > In my operating system Widget.Dialog is separated from the os namespace.

    The namespace is really not consistent, true. My problem is that I
    have a class model, for example, os.widget:
    the "class" are stored in os.widget.init,
    the runtime object are stored in os.widget.run
    I'm not sure it's a good way doing it. Plus, some of the "class" are
    stored before in the tree, like os.context or os.menu, because I don't
    need to have runtime object directly accessible.
    Another fix to come are windows, actually there is object model for
    windows, there are only methods in the core (os) to create window
    (createWindow, removeWindow), that have to be changed too.


    > Oh and a copyright notice saying 'Public Domain' and and author notice 'Rorist' will also help.

    I was assuming the public domain doesn't require any credits, and that
    was simplier. Because these credits can be stripped out by anyone with
    that kind of "licence". But you are right, it will be easier to see
    what is part of the core, and what is 3rd party library. I note.

    > If you do this then I hope to be able to try out the modules myself
    > (it is too hard to figure out right now).

    Thanks for the time taken. Looking forward your answer on the above.

    Bye
     
    Rorist, Dec 22, 2008
    #20
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