What should I do webapp or webservice + webapp?

Discussion in 'ASP .Net' started by jhooper71@yahoo.com, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. Guest

    It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    Phone/Treo solution eventually.

    I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.

    Tell me what I should do.

    Thanks,
    Jamie
    , Feb 9, 2006
    #1
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  2. Jhooper,

    I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you truly
    want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications in the
    future then webservices are a great way to go.

    --
    Sincerely,

    S. Justin Gengo, MCP
    Web Developer / Programmer

    www.aboutfortunate.com

    "Out of chaos comes order."
    Nietzsche
    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    > manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    > could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    > Phone/Treo solution eventually.
    >
    > I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    > environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    > -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    > way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    > connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    > in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.
    >
    > Tell me what I should do.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jamie
    >
    S. Justin Gengo [MCP], Feb 9, 2006
    #2
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  3. Web services are surprisingly easy to produce and install. However, they're
    slow!! I would NOT use them to return large chunks of data and I would
    never call them within a repetative task. Also suggest you build in some
    type of security key if you don't want them to be available to anyone that
    might stumble across them.

    Ignore "Microsoft's direction" as much as possible and go with what you know
    makes sense for your environment. Microsoft can and do try to lead
    developers down roads they don't need to go down.

    You can insulate the data from the UI in otherways, you don't have to use
    web services to do this. I like to refer to this as "the real world" vs.
    the "Microsoft press world".

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    > manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    > could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    > Phone/Treo solution eventually.
    >
    > I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    > environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    > -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    > way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    > connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    > in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.
    >
    > Tell me what I should do.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jamie
    >
    Rob R. Ainscough, Feb 9, 2006
    #3
  4. Guest

    I think many people get caught up in the "webservice" buzz word hype
    (including me). It is an abstract interface to a complicated problem,
    but maybe Rob is right. Go with what you know and what you can support
    vs. trying to build an enterprise solution. Since there is no
    immediate need/desire for the smart Phone integration (knowing full
    well that I might have to build that later) I might just as well
    address the problem with the solution that we know best. I would like
    to follow the best practices (build a series of webservice interfaces
    to our database and share them with web applications, windows
    applications, smartphone, etc) but, in the scope of trying to solve a
    problem... maybe the "dumbed down" version in .Net 2.0
    (gridview<--datasource<--stored procedure) methodology is best.

    It's nice to hear someone else say what you may have (subconsciously)
    already knew.
    Of course, I'm always open to any suggestions on a better way to do
    something.

    Thanks for your advise.
    Jamie
    , Feb 9, 2006
    #4
  5. sloan Guest

    You can go way too overload on "reuse".

    You need to consider your overall architecture.

    WebServices are good for nonpropietary data transfer. Because any
    technology can use them.

    If you only have dotnet apps, then artificially introducing a webservices
    layer is kinda dumb.

    ...

    If you have 100% dot net apps, but want the security of running "secret
    code" at a safe location, remoting is another option.

    Check my
    http://spaces.msn.com/sholliday/
    9/27/2005 entry


    My old company had a "Verify User" web service. THey did this because they
    had:
    Vb(classic)
    Asp
    DotNet
    Java

    projects who needed a central place to verify users. Because they needed
    non dotnet apps, a webservice made sense.

    A web service for UPS makes sense, because anybody can talk to it.

    A dot net only shop.... doesn't make sense, because you give up too much
    performance, if you don't need it.

    ...

    IF you create good Tiered objects (Presentation, BusinessLogic, DataTier),
    then you can always add a webservice later, at not alot of effort.

    From your description, I don't think you want an articificially imposed web
    service.

    You want a web app.

    Presentation.Web.1
    BusinessLogicLayer
    DataTierLayer

    My rule of thumb for the DataTier(layer) is that it returns
    DataSets
    IDataReaders
    Scalars
    null (nothing)

    back to the BusinessLayer.

    You get data back (datasets, Idatareaders, scalars), ...or you push data in
    (for inserts, updates etc)..which return nothing.

    ...



    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    > manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    > could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    > Phone/Treo solution eventually.
    >
    > I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    > environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    > -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    > way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    > connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    > in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.
    >
    > Tell me what I should do.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jamie
    >
    sloan, Feb 9, 2006
    #5
  6. And why can't he re-use his existing code?? Doesn't have to be a web
    service in order to be re-usable. Also, if one does indeed get into the
    situation where many other applications (some not your own) start using a
    web service, one has to be EXTREMELY careful about making any changes to
    that web service. SSDT

    I'm not a fan of MS Best Practices -- I'm a fan of common sense. MS Best
    Practices rarely fit into the real world of software development.


    "S. Justin Gengo [MCP]" <justin@[no_spam_please]aboutfortunate.com> wrote in
    message news:...
    > Jhooper,
    >
    > I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you
    > truly want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications
    > in the future then webservices are a great way to go.
    >
    > --
    > Sincerely,
    >
    > S. Justin Gengo, MCP
    > Web Developer / Programmer
    >
    > www.aboutfortunate.com
    >
    > "Out of chaos comes order."
    > Nietzsche
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    >> manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    >> could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    >> Phone/Treo solution eventually.
    >>
    >> I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    >> environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    >> -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    >> way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    >> connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    >> in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.
    >>
    >> Tell me what I should do.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Jamie
    >>

    >
    >
    Rob R. Ainscough, Feb 9, 2006
    #6
  7. Rob,

    That's very true sometimes. But I've been down a few roads where scalability
    became a factor and found out the hard way that I just ended up rewriting
    code the way MS suggested originally. It's always a balancing act between
    speed of development and scalablity.

    If speed is what Jamie is after then no, he probably shouldn't follow best
    practices.

    But best practices are there for a reason. Some of the smartest developers
    came up with the best practices. And despite what many people like to think
    they didn't come up with it all just to make money. Sometimes it's hard to
    see in smaller applications, but those best practices came from real world
    problems and solutions.

    --
    Sincerely,

    S. Justin Gengo, MCP
    Web Developer / Programmer

    www.aboutfortunate.com

    "Out of chaos comes order."
    Nietzsche
    "Rob R. Ainscough" <> wrote in message
    news:eWIry$...
    > And why can't he re-use his existing code?? Doesn't have to be a web
    > service in order to be re-usable. Also, if one does indeed get into the
    > situation where many other applications (some not your own) start using a
    > web service, one has to be EXTREMELY careful about making any changes to
    > that web service. SSDT
    >
    > I'm not a fan of MS Best Practices -- I'm a fan of common sense. MS Best
    > Practices rarely fit into the real world of software development.
    >
    >
    > "S. Justin Gengo [MCP]" <justin@[no_spam_please]aboutfortunate.com> wrote
    > in message news:...
    >> Jhooper,
    >>
    >> I'm a big fan of MS Best Practices when using there technology. If you
    >> truly want to be able to re-use this functionality in other applications
    >> in the future then webservices are a great way to go.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Sincerely,
    >>
    >> S. Justin Gengo, MCP
    >> Web Developer / Programmer
    >>
    >> www.aboutfortunate.com
    >>
    >> "Out of chaos comes order."
    >> Nietzsche
    >> <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> It's been recommended to me to use a webservice and XML for the data
    >>> manipulation layer for web applications in .NET 1.1. I was thinking I
    >>> could use the web service to extend the database interface to a Smart
    >>> Phone/Treo solution eventually.
    >>>
    >>> I would like to create our apps in the most current development
    >>> environment but, do I abandon the webservice-->Dataset--> XML
    >>> -->Http-->XML --> dataset -->gridview methodology? Is there a better
    >>> way? Or do I create an asp.net webapp that is all inclusive of data
    >>> connectivity and UI? It seems that's the direction MS has steered me
    >>> in 2.0 using datasources and gridview.
    >>>
    >>> Tell me what I should do.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Jamie
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    S. Justin Gengo [MCP], Feb 10, 2006
    #7
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