word with symbol in it - how to mark up?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by nice.guy.nige, Mar 1, 2004.

  1. Hi,

    Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able Skills"
    (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a Pound Sterling
    (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want the phrase to appear as
    is on their web page. All simple enough to do, but how do I mark this up in
    the HTML? Can't leave it as it is, as I dread to think what it will sound
    like when a screen-reader hits it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the
    HTML 4.01 specs, but can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!

    Any and all wisdom on this matter deeply appreciated.

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
     
    nice.guy.nige, Mar 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. nice.guy.nige

    Kris Guest

    In article <c2019p$1nbqkv$-berlin.de>,
    "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:

    > Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able Skills"
    > (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a Pound Sterling
    > (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want the phrase to appear as
    > is on their web page. All simple enough to do, but how do I mark this up in
    > the HTML? Can't leave it as it is, as I dread to think what it will sound
    > like when a screen-reader hits it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the
    > HTML 4.01 specs, but can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!


    Actually, what is it the word supposed to sound like? When asked what
    department they work in, what do the employees of "Valu£able Skills"
    answer?

    --
    Kris
    <> (nl)
    <http://www.cinnamon.nl/>
     
    Kris, Mar 1, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. While the city slept, Kris <> feverishly typed:

    > In article <c2019p$1nbqkv$-berlin.de>,
    > "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able
    >> Skills" (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a
    >> Pound Sterling (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want
    >> the phrase to appear as is on their web page. All simple enough to
    >> do, but how do I mark this up in the HTML? Can't leave it as it is,
    >> as I dread to think what it will sound like when a screen-reader
    >> hits it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the HTML 4.01 specs,
    >> but can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!

    >
    > Actually, what is it the word supposed to sound like? When asked what
    > department they work in, what do the employees of "Valu£able Skills"
    > answer?


    From my OP: First word pronounced "valuable".

    There's only one person there, and she's Spanish...!

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
     
    nice.guy.nige, Mar 1, 2004
    #3
  4. nice.guy.nige

    Chet Guest

    "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote in message
    news:c2019p$1nbqkv$-berlin.de...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called

    "Valu£able Skills"
    > (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a Pound

    Sterling
    > (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want the phrase

    to appear as
    > is on their web page. All simple enough to do, but how do I

    mark this up in
    > the HTML? Can't leave it as it is, as I dread to think what it

    will sound
    > like when a screen-reader hits it! I've googled, and had a

    trawl through the
    > HTML 4.01 specs, but can't find any reference to a <madeupword>

    element!
    >
    > Any and all wisdom on this matter deeply appreciated.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nige
    >
    > --
    > Nigel Moss.
    >
    > Email address is not valid. . Take the

    dog out!
    > http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!!

    http://www.stopesso.com
    > In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
    >
    >


    You might try using

    Valu£able Skills

    The £ is the escaped pound sterling symbol so the above
    would display correctly but I'm not sure what a screenreader
    might do with it.

    hth
    --
    Chet
    (remove NO.....SPAM)
     
    Chet, Mar 1, 2004
    #4
  5. nice.guy.nige

    Spartanicus Guest

    "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:

    >Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able Skills"
    >(First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a Pound Sterling
    >(GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want the phrase to appear as
    >is on their web page. All simple enough to do, but how do I mark this up in
    >the HTML? Can't leave it as it is, as I dread to think what it will sound
    >like when a screen-reader hits it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the
    >HTML 4.01 specs, but can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!


    <img src="Valu£able_Skills.png" alt="Valuable Skills">

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Mar 1, 2004
    #5
  6. nice.guy.nige wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able
    > Skills" (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a
    > Pound Sterling (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want
    > the phrase to appear as is on their web page. All simple enough to
    > do, but how do I mark this up in the HTML? Can't leave it as it is,
    > as I dread to think what it will sound like when a screen-reader hits
    > it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the HTML 4.01 specs, but
    > can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!
    >
    > Any and all wisdom on this matter deeply appreciated.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nige



    If you are concerned about aural browsers.....
    Will something like this do the trick....

    I havent tried any of this, just guessing.


    <style type="text/css" media="aural">
    span.thethingy { cue-before: uri(valuable.wav); }
    </style>

    .......

    <p>The department called <span class="thethingy">Valu£able</span>
    Skills is what it is.</p>


    or this.....

    <style type="text/css" media="aural">
    span.thethingy { cue-before: uri(valuable.wav); }
    span.nosound { volume: silent); }
    </style>


    <p>The department called <span class="thethingy"></span> <span
    class="nosound">Valu£able</span> Skills is what it is.</p>
     
    Disco Octopus, Mar 1, 2004
    #6
  7. nice.guy.nige <> wrote:
    > One of the departments is called "Valu£able
    > Skills" (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a
    > Pound Sterling (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want
    > the phrase to appear as is on their web page. All simple enough to
    > do, but how do I mark this up in the HTML? Can't leave it as it is,
    > as I dread to think what it will sound like when a screen-reader hits
    > it!


    As others have mentioned, you should use £ to escape the Pound Sterling
    sign, then I would suggest the following:

    Valu<span style="speak: none;">£</span>able

    This would prevent a speach reader from pronouncing the sign, but I'm not
    sure if it would figure out if valu and able go together in the same word.
    --
    Michael Wilcox
    mjwilco at yahoo dot com
    Essential Tools for the Web Developer - http://mikewilcox.t35.com
     
    Michael Wilcox, Mar 1, 2004
    #7
  8. nice.guy.nige

    Kris Guest

    In article <c203v1$1o6e3e$-berlin.de>,
    "nice.guy.nige" <> wrote:

    > >> Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called "Valu£able
    > >> Skills" (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a
    > >> Pound Sterling (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want
    > >> the phrase to appear as is on their web page. All simple enough to
    > >> do, but how do I mark this up in the HTML? Can't leave it as it is,
    > >> as I dread to think what it will sound like when a screen-reader
    > >> hits it! I've googled, and had a trawl through the HTML 4.01 specs,
    > >> but can't find any reference to a <madeupword> element!

    > >
    > > Actually, what is it the word supposed to sound like? When asked what
    > > department they work in, what do the employees of "Valu£able Skills"
    > > answer?

    >
    > From my OP: First word pronounced "valuable".


    Maybe
    <dfn title="Valuable">Valu£able</dfn>?

    --
    Kris
    <> (nl)
    <http://www.cinnamon.nl/>
     
    Kris, Mar 1, 2004
    #8
  9. nice.guy.nige

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Michael Wilcox" <> wrote:

    >Valu<span style="speak: none;">£</span>able
    >
    >This would prevent a speach reader from pronouncing the sign


    There are no UAs that support aural css, and I see no reason why a
    speech browser would skip a character reference.

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Mar 2, 2004
    #9
  10. Spartanicus <> wrote:
    > There are no UAs that support aural css, and I see no reason why a
    > speech browser would skip a character reference.


    True there are no UAs that support it, but it's not accectable that speech
    browser users hear, "Valu--Pound--able."
    --
    Michael Wilcox
    mjwilco at yahoo dot com
    Essential Tools for the Web Developer - http://mikewilcox.t35.com
     
    Michael Wilcox, Mar 2, 2004
    #10
  11. Jukka K. Korpela, Mar 2, 2004
    #11
  12. "Chet" <> wrote:

    > The £ is the escaped pound sterling symbol so the above
    > would display correctly but I'm not sure what a screenreader
    > might do with it.


    Exactly the same thing as with the pound sign itself. Why would using a
    character reference make a difference?

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Mar 2, 2004
    #12
  13. Spartanicus <> wrote:

    > <img src="Valu£able_Skills.png" alt="Valuable Skills">


    Or
    Valu<img src="pound.gif" alt="">able Skills

    Or
    Valuable Skills
    and when the pointy-haired boss complains, tell him that the company
    will be heavily sued for discrimination, if pages are not accessible to
    everyone, including intellectually enabled people who are mentally
    blocked from doing business with a company using a moronic
    misspelling like "Valu£able".

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Mar 2, 2004
    #13
  14. nice.guy.nige

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Michael Wilcox" <> wrote:

    >> There are no UAs that support aural css, and I see no reason why a
    >> speech browser would skip a character reference.

    >
    >True there are no UAs that support it, but it's not accectable that speech
    >browser users hear, "Valu--Pound--able."


    If you knew that it wasn't going to work, why did you propose it?

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Mar 2, 2004
    #14
  15. in news:Xns94A0537F65F5Djkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31,
    Jukka K. Korpela typed:
    > Spartanicus <> wrote:
    >
    >> <img src="Valu£able_Skills.png" alt="Valuable Skills">

    >
    > Or
    > Valu<img src="pound.gif" alt="">able Skills
    >
    > Or
    > Valuable Skills
    > and when the pointy-haired boss complains, tell him that the company
    > will be heavily sued for discrimination, if pages are not accessible
    > to everyone, including intellectually enabled people who are mentally
    > blocked from doing business with a company using a moronic
    > misspelling like "Valu£able".


    Well. I am going to have to agree with what /i/ /think/ you are trying to
    say.

    The OP has given a word "Valu£able" and he/she wants particular U/As to
    read/interpret that word in different ways depending on the UA. ie. they
    want the word to be "Valu£able" in a web browser such as IE, but they want
    the word to be "valuable" in browsers such as speech browser UAs. You might
    as well just have some js code in the page that looks for navigator.name,
    and do a doc.write depending on the UA.

    If that is your point rf, then I must agree, you have shown me the light o
    wise one. Now, to make the point clear to the OP....
     
    Disco Octopus, Mar 2, 2004
    #15
  16. nice.guy.nige

    jake Guest

    In message
    <>,
    Spartanicus <> writes
    >"Michael Wilcox" <> wrote:
    >
    >>Valu<span style="speak: none;">£</span>able
    >>
    >>This would prevent a speach reader from pronouncing the sign

    >
    >There are no UAs that support aural css,


    emacspeak?

    >and I see no reason why a
    >speech browser would skip a character reference.
    >


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Mar 2, 2004
    #16
  17. nice.guy.nige

    jake Guest

    In message <qFS0c.29095$>,
    Michael Wilcox <> writes
    >Spartanicus <> wrote:
    >> There are no UAs that support aural css, and I see no reason why a
    >> speech browser would skip a character reference.

    >
    >True there are no UAs that support it, but it's not accectable that speech
    >browser users hear, "Valu--Pound--able."



    They'll hear (at least in mine):

    [vee] [ey] [el] [yoo] [pound] [able]


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Mar 2, 2004
    #17
  18. nice.guy.nige

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Chet
    <> writes
    >
    >"nice.guy.nige" <> wrote in message
    >news:c2019p$1nbqkv$-berlin.de...
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Hit this snag at work. One of the departments is called

    >"Valu£able Skills"
    >> (First word pronounced pronounced "valuable". There is a Pound

    >Sterling
    >> (GBP) symbol in between "Valu" and "able"), and want the phrase

    >to appear as
    >> is on their web page. All simple enough to do, but how do I

    >mark this up in
    >> the HTML? Can't leave it as it is, as I dread to think what it

    >will sound
    >> like when a screen-reader hits it! I've googled, and had a

    >trawl through the
    >> HTML 4.01 specs, but can't find any reference to a <madeupword>

    >element!
    >>
    >> Any and all wisdom on this matter deeply appreciated.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> Nige
    >>
    >> --
    >> Nigel Moss.
    >>
    >> Email address is not valid. . Take the

    >dog out!
    >> http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!!

    >http://www.stopesso.com
    >> In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
    >>
    >>

    >
    >You might try using
    >
    >Valu£able Skills
    >
    >The £ is the escaped pound sterling symbol so the above
    >would display correctly but I'm not sure what a screenreader
    >might do with it.
    >

    The same as if you'd used £

    [vee] [ey] [el] [you] [pound] [able]


    (in mine)

    >hth


    --
    Jake
     
    jake, Mar 2, 2004
    #18
  19. While the city slept, Jukka K. Korpela <> feverishly
    typed:

    [...]
    > Valuable Skills
    > and when the pointy-haired boss complains, tell him that the company
    > will be heavily sued for discrimination, if pages are not accessible
    > to everyone, including intellectually enabled people who are mentally
    > blocked from doing business with a company using a moronic
    > misspelling like "Valu£able".


    I think I agree with you Jukka. Hell, they can complain all they like 'cause
    my contract finishes tomorrow! From the first day I saw that name I thought
    "oh dear..." I have a logo I can use on the page with the '£' in it, and
    replace all the text versions with normal English! Should keep them happy,
    especially if I explain the accessibility side of it. Apart from anything
    else, what language would I identify it as?? ;-)

    The 'company' is actually the local Further Education college. You'd think
    they'd know better, but then that was before marketing types came in I
    suppose...

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
     
    nice.guy.nige, Mar 2, 2004
    #19
  20. While the city slept, Disco Octopus <> feverishly
    typed:

    [...]
    > Well. I am going to have to agree with what /i/ /think/ you are
    > trying to say.


    <aol>Me too!</aol>

    > The OP has given a word "Valu£able" and he/she wants particular U/As
    > to read/interpret that word in different ways depending on the UA.
    > ie. they want the word to be "Valu£able" in a web browser such as IE,
    > but they want the word to be "valuable" in browsers such as speech
    > browser UAs. You might as well just have some js code in the page
    > that looks for navigator.name, and do a doc.write depending on the UA.


    Not at all. I was just pondering if there was any element to markup 'strange
    non-words', so that they can appear as is on the screen (keep marketing
    happy), but they wouldn't confuse (for example) a screen reader, in a
    similar way to marking up abbreviations or acronyms, etc.

    > If that is your point rf,


    Wasn't it Jukka you were replying to?

    > then I must agree, you have shown me the
    > light o wise one. Now, to make the point clear to the OP....


    The point is perfectly clear, thank you. As I said, I was just pondering as
    this is something I've never come across before, either in work, or in the
    several years I have been in news:alt.html.

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is very, very busy!
     
    nice.guy.nige, Mar 2, 2004
    #20
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