R
Richard Cornford
While gong through my browser history looking for a page I recently
visited I noticed the fromu4desingers.com URL and decided to have a
quick look to see if they were reporting the names of the Usenet groups
they exploit yet (they aren't).
I noticed that they had attached an "announcement" to the top of the
thread listings of each group and wondered if they had taken the
opportunity to tip the unfortunate soles who use their "service" off
about the Usenet conventions that to date they have demonstrated such an
ignorance of. Unfortunately it falls so far short that I thought it
worth posting and commenting on.
The announcement is reproduced here in full, quoted with leading pipe
characters ( | ).
<URL:
http://www.forum4designers.com/announcement.php?s=4e1ad7fa4963fadc5febd4
d1747b506b&forumid=22 >
(Will line wrap!)
Posted by:-
|dmitro1 - Administrator
|
|About these newsgroups forums! (01-01-04 until 12-26-04)
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|Attention Dear Forum4Designers members!
|
|
|We now offer an easy access to public usenet newsgroups that
|are related to web design
|
|
|The usenet has been around long before the web browser was even
|invented. Today, hunders of thousands of people from around the
|world still use public newsgroups as a way to communicate.
|
|Just like groups.google.com our web based access add benefits to
|users and usenet community. Here are just a few benefits:
"like groups.google.com our web based access add benefits to ... usenet
community"? That is an invitation for comparison with google and an
examination of the claim.
|Questions are answered faster because they are seen by many
|thousands of people all over the net, not just by visitors
|or one website.
Doesn't really change anything for the Usenet community, that was what
happened anyway.
|A forum based Search engine makes it easy to find topics
The forum4designers.com archive of comp.lang.javascript goes all the way
back to the start of December 2003 and does nothing more than list the
treads posted over a period. While the groups.google.com archive for
comp.lang.javascript starts somewhere near the beginning of 1996 and can
be searched by pretty much any criteria you can think of. Probably
nobody in the Usenet community would go anywhere but groups.google.com
for archive searching.
|Filter makes it possible to block offensive languate and spam
Obviously not relevant to the users of news software. Not that there is
much need for obscenity filtering in comp.lang.javascript, there aren't
many contributors that inarticulate.
|Not everyone has direct usenet access because not all ISP provide
|it and not all users are interested in setting up outlook express
|for access.
Hmm, it's hard to imagine anyone with a serious interest in javascript
being too idle to configure a newsreader. Though there might be some
need for web-based access, and there are even some sites doing a
reasonable job of it, including groups.google.com.
|Additional security for users because they don't need to register
|to read the posts.
I don't see the relationship there, it must be a very specialised
definition of security.
|Threads/posts are displayed in a forum format that most users are
|familiar with.
I have mentioned what I think of the way that form4designers.com's
HTML-centred presentation of comp.lang.javascript serves to render
posted code incomprehensible before. A specific example being:-
<br />
if( document.getElementById ) {<br />
expMonth = document.getElementById( 'Exp_Month' );<br />
} else if( document.all ) {<br />
expMonth = document.all[ 'Exp_Month' ];<br />
}<br />
<br />
- which was appropriately indented on Usenet but that information is now
gone. The "<br />" line brakes are quite amusing as well because they
appear in a page with a:-
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
- doctype. So in addition to sorting out all of the nested tables and
presentational mark-up in this "forum format" the user's browser is
going to have to slog away error correcting nonsense HTML syntax.
But that is not the limit of the incompetent presentation of Usenet
inflicted on its users by form4designers.com. The following snippets
appear in their source code:-
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Michae
l
Winter</font></b></font>
....
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Richar
d
Cornfo
rd</font></b></font>
....
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Lasse
Reichs
tein
Nielse
n</font></b></font>
- The effect of arbitrarily breaking names up and spreading them across
up to 5 lines of HTML source code is to turn them into:-
"Michae l Winter"
"Richar d Cornfo rd"
- and -
"Lasse Reichs tein Nielse n"
A "forum format" that so comprehensively garbles its source cannot be
justified by being "familiar".
|Web Based usenet access opens the doors to the wonderfull world of
|Usenet to new users that may not even know about usenet's existance.
|This in turn add more activity to usenet groups, therefore
|benefiting not only those using our website but also the rest of
|the usenet community by making their groups more active.
Activity, of itself, is not necessarily a good thing. Funnelling
individuals into comp.lang.javascript without telling them where they
are going, what is expected of them, or even, originally, that it was
Usenet they were posting to, doesn't represent a contribution to the
community when it results in an increase in noise and nothing more. Now,
people who are willing to recognise and follow the Usenet conventions,
contribute and maybe open to learning something from time to time are
always welcome, but they seem to be able to find their way here on their
own.
comp.lang.javascript doesn't seem any more active than it was prior to
December last year, probably because it is so active anyway.
Forum4designers.com's contribution to the Usenet community is negligible
(and possibly negative) in comparison to groups.google.com.
|A few things to remember when posting and reading posts:
|
|Messages posted in these forums will also be uploaded to the usenet
|newsgroups that these forums mirror while messages posted to usenet
|newsgroups will also be downloaded to these forums (we will try to
|synchronize our forums with usenet every hour)
|
|These forums are not limited just to Forum4designers.com members
|anymore! Now tens of thousands of people from around the world will
|be able to see your posts, reply to your posts and you will be able
|to reply to theirs!
The use of "anymore" and "now" in that paragraph implies that something
has changed when in reality the only thing that seems to have changed on
forum4designers.com is that they are now admitting that their service is
nothing more than web based access to Usenet where they were previously
giving the impression that he whole thing was entirely their own work.
|Please remember a couple things:
Here it is, an opportunity for forum4designers.com to redeem themselves
(a little) by filling their users in on the more important Usenet
conventions, such as seeking, reading and following guidance of the FAQ
of technical groups prior to posting.
|First - posts you see in these forums are made by people other than
|forum4designers.com members. You may see someone using inappropriate
|language or flaming the forum. Remember - most of these people are
|not our members and we don't moderate these forums! Hey, we can't
|moderate the Internet!
|
|The good news is that our forum censorship filters still apply and
|some bad words will be replaced with XXXXXX.
"still apply" still implies that forum4desgners.com's former deception
was not a deception (which is itself a deception).
It is difficult to see how a censorship filter can be a good idea on a
group discussing a programming language as selectively replacing chunks
of otherwise legal identifiers is not going to promote the functionality
of posted code. Not that terms that may be subject of censorship are
often (if ever) used in identifiers in code posted to the group, but the
language does not forbid them. Though, given that the presentation of
comp.lang.javascript on forum4designers.com is already garbling its
source, it probably cannot make thing worse.
|Second - when you post to these forums, you are actually posting to
|usenet newsgroups. Every message sent to usenet from our forums will
|have your ExamNotes username -your email address will never be sent
|out.
(Don't tell PointedEars.
|A link to your profile on ExamNotes.net will also be included
|in the signature. Please use good netiquette and be courteous just
|like when you post to our regular forums.
|
|
|At these time we offer only a few newsgroups, but we'll add more to
|the list soon when we find usenet newgroups that we think will be
|beneficial to our members.
One of the advantages of accessing Usenet through a news server: My ISP
carries thousands of groups, I get to take my pick. They recently
added - alt.gothic.parenting -, my mind went to "The Turn of the Screw"
by Henry James and then on to the cancel button.
|In conclusion - use these forums just like you are using our other
|forums - read and reply to posts often!
So that is it. The opportunity squandered.
|I really hope you will find this feature a worthy addition to our
|community.
Forum4designers.com is a bad place to read comp.lang.javascript from and
looks like remaining a bad place to post to comp.lang.javascript from.
Richard.
visited I noticed the fromu4desingers.com URL and decided to have a
quick look to see if they were reporting the names of the Usenet groups
they exploit yet (they aren't).
I noticed that they had attached an "announcement" to the top of the
thread listings of each group and wondered if they had taken the
opportunity to tip the unfortunate soles who use their "service" off
about the Usenet conventions that to date they have demonstrated such an
ignorance of. Unfortunately it falls so far short that I thought it
worth posting and commenting on.
The announcement is reproduced here in full, quoted with leading pipe
characters ( | ).
<URL:
http://www.forum4designers.com/announcement.php?s=4e1ad7fa4963fadc5febd4
d1747b506b&forumid=22 >
(Will line wrap!)
Posted by:-
|dmitro1 - Administrator
|
|About these newsgroups forums! (01-01-04 until 12-26-04)
|----------------------------------------------------------------
|
|Attention Dear Forum4Designers members!
|
|
|We now offer an easy access to public usenet newsgroups that
|are related to web design
|
|
|The usenet has been around long before the web browser was even
|invented. Today, hunders of thousands of people from around the
|world still use public newsgroups as a way to communicate.
|
|Just like groups.google.com our web based access add benefits to
|users and usenet community. Here are just a few benefits:
"like groups.google.com our web based access add benefits to ... usenet
community"? That is an invitation for comparison with google and an
examination of the claim.
|Questions are answered faster because they are seen by many
|thousands of people all over the net, not just by visitors
|or one website.
Doesn't really change anything for the Usenet community, that was what
happened anyway.
|A forum based Search engine makes it easy to find topics
The forum4designers.com archive of comp.lang.javascript goes all the way
back to the start of December 2003 and does nothing more than list the
treads posted over a period. While the groups.google.com archive for
comp.lang.javascript starts somewhere near the beginning of 1996 and can
be searched by pretty much any criteria you can think of. Probably
nobody in the Usenet community would go anywhere but groups.google.com
for archive searching.
|Filter makes it possible to block offensive languate and spam
Obviously not relevant to the users of news software. Not that there is
much need for obscenity filtering in comp.lang.javascript, there aren't
many contributors that inarticulate.
|Not everyone has direct usenet access because not all ISP provide
|it and not all users are interested in setting up outlook express
|for access.
Hmm, it's hard to imagine anyone with a serious interest in javascript
being too idle to configure a newsreader. Though there might be some
need for web-based access, and there are even some sites doing a
reasonable job of it, including groups.google.com.
|Additional security for users because they don't need to register
|to read the posts.
I don't see the relationship there, it must be a very specialised
definition of security.
|Threads/posts are displayed in a forum format that most users are
|familiar with.
I have mentioned what I think of the way that form4designers.com's
HTML-centred presentation of comp.lang.javascript serves to render
posted code incomprehensible before. A specific example being:-
<br />
if( document.getElementById ) {<br />
expMonth = document.getElementById( 'Exp_Month' );<br />
} else if( document.all ) {<br />
expMonth = document.all[ 'Exp_Month' ];<br />
}<br />
<br />
- which was appropriately indented on Usenet but that information is now
gone. The "<br />" line brakes are quite amusing as well because they
appear in a page with a:-
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
- doctype. So in addition to sorting out all of the nested tables and
presentational mark-up in this "forum format" the user's browser is
going to have to slog away error correcting nonsense HTML syntax.
But that is not the limit of the incompetent presentation of Usenet
inflicted on its users by form4designers.com. The following snippets
appear in their source code:-
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Michae
l
Winter</font></b></font>
....
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Richar
d
Cornfo
rd</font></b></font>
....
<font face="verdana,arial,helvetica" size="1" ><b><font
color="#FFFFFF">Lasse
Reichs
tein
Nielse
n</font></b></font>
- The effect of arbitrarily breaking names up and spreading them across
up to 5 lines of HTML source code is to turn them into:-
"Michae l Winter"
"Richar d Cornfo rd"
- and -
"Lasse Reichs tein Nielse n"
A "forum format" that so comprehensively garbles its source cannot be
justified by being "familiar".
|Web Based usenet access opens the doors to the wonderfull world of
|Usenet to new users that may not even know about usenet's existance.
|This in turn add more activity to usenet groups, therefore
|benefiting not only those using our website but also the rest of
|the usenet community by making their groups more active.
Activity, of itself, is not necessarily a good thing. Funnelling
individuals into comp.lang.javascript without telling them where they
are going, what is expected of them, or even, originally, that it was
Usenet they were posting to, doesn't represent a contribution to the
community when it results in an increase in noise and nothing more. Now,
people who are willing to recognise and follow the Usenet conventions,
contribute and maybe open to learning something from time to time are
always welcome, but they seem to be able to find their way here on their
own.
comp.lang.javascript doesn't seem any more active than it was prior to
December last year, probably because it is so active anyway.
Forum4designers.com's contribution to the Usenet community is negligible
(and possibly negative) in comparison to groups.google.com.
|A few things to remember when posting and reading posts:
|
|Messages posted in these forums will also be uploaded to the usenet
|newsgroups that these forums mirror while messages posted to usenet
|newsgroups will also be downloaded to these forums (we will try to
|synchronize our forums with usenet every hour)
|
|These forums are not limited just to Forum4designers.com members
|anymore! Now tens of thousands of people from around the world will
|be able to see your posts, reply to your posts and you will be able
|to reply to theirs!
The use of "anymore" and "now" in that paragraph implies that something
has changed when in reality the only thing that seems to have changed on
forum4designers.com is that they are now admitting that their service is
nothing more than web based access to Usenet where they were previously
giving the impression that he whole thing was entirely their own work.
|Please remember a couple things:
Here it is, an opportunity for forum4designers.com to redeem themselves
(a little) by filling their users in on the more important Usenet
conventions, such as seeking, reading and following guidance of the FAQ
of technical groups prior to posting.
|First - posts you see in these forums are made by people other than
|forum4designers.com members. You may see someone using inappropriate
|language or flaming the forum. Remember - most of these people are
|not our members and we don't moderate these forums! Hey, we can't
|moderate the Internet!
|
|The good news is that our forum censorship filters still apply and
|some bad words will be replaced with XXXXXX.
"still apply" still implies that forum4desgners.com's former deception
was not a deception (which is itself a deception).
It is difficult to see how a censorship filter can be a good idea on a
group discussing a programming language as selectively replacing chunks
of otherwise legal identifiers is not going to promote the functionality
of posted code. Not that terms that may be subject of censorship are
often (if ever) used in identifiers in code posted to the group, but the
language does not forbid them. Though, given that the presentation of
comp.lang.javascript on forum4designers.com is already garbling its
source, it probably cannot make thing worse.
|Second - when you post to these forums, you are actually posting to
|usenet newsgroups. Every message sent to usenet from our forums will
|have your ExamNotes username -your email address will never be sent
|out.
(Don't tell PointedEars.
|A link to your profile on ExamNotes.net will also be included
|in the signature. Please use good netiquette and be courteous just
|like when you post to our regular forums.
|
|
|At these time we offer only a few newsgroups, but we'll add more to
|the list soon when we find usenet newgroups that we think will be
|beneficial to our members.
One of the advantages of accessing Usenet through a news server: My ISP
carries thousands of groups, I get to take my pick. They recently
added - alt.gothic.parenting -, my mind went to "The Turn of the Screw"
by Henry James and then on to the cancel button.
|In conclusion - use these forums just like you are using our other
|forums - read and reply to posts often!
So that is it. The opportunity squandered.
|I really hope you will find this feature a worthy addition to our
|community.
Forum4designers.com is a bad place to read comp.lang.javascript from and
looks like remaining a bad place to post to comp.lang.javascript from.
Richard.