[ANN] Forthcoming 2nd ed. of _The Ruby Way_

B

Bill Guindon

I don't think the publisher has any plan of such. In fact,
they might hate the very idea. But I will mention it.

I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

Publishers:
They get cash in early, followed by errata submissions before going to
press, so they're final product has a higher quality. They also get
to market a product at 3 levels, the PDF buyer who can't afford the
book, the average book buyer, and those of us who want both.

Readers:
They get a chance to read it before it goes to press (and many of them
can't afford to wait). When they finally get their print copy, it's
far more likely to be error free. On top of that, they get the same
buying options mentioned above -- which gives them the chance to have
a book they can read at the beach, and/or a PDF they can quickly
search while coding.

I know the PragProg guys say there's no such thing as a 'magic bullet'
for programming, but they sure seem to have found one for publishing.

[1] http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000487.html
 
H

Hal Fulton

Chris said:
Hal Fulton wrote:




There's more to a book than a list of topics. What about depth,
starting point, assumptions of reader ability, reference vs learning
model (see Kathy Sierra's blog), inclusion of tutorials, examples,
exercises...

If you're familiar with the first edition, the basic style and
philosophy will not change.

If you wish, I'll discuss that in more detail later. Or someone
else can offer an opinion as to what "kind" of book it is.


Hal
 
P

pat eyler

I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

It might also be worth pointing out that other programmers are doing
same kind of thing -- Manning for example:
http://www.manning.com/about/meap


[elided]
 
H

Hal Fulton

Luc said:
On 15 d=E9c. 05, at 01:34, Jeff Wood wrote:
=20
=20
=20
Make that a Pickaxe-2-style-beta-book and I'm signing up right away :)
=20

Well, my publisher is not as cool as Dave. :) There won't be a
beta program as such, and the only way you'll get a PDF (that I
know of) is through something like Safari.


Hal
 
H

Hal Fulton

James said:
I have high expectations for David Black's forthcoming book. I'd be
hard pressed to name another person I'd like to see a Ruby book from.

Agreed! I am eager to get my hands on that. I think it will be a
tremendous asset to the community.


Hal
 
J

James Britt

Bill Guindon wrote:
..
I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

Some counterpoints for consideration:

* In contrast to offering a free online version (if even only prior to
publication) the pay-to-preview approach means you get fewer eyeballs
and have fewer bug reports & suggestions prior to publication.
Open-to-all improves quality.

* It is indeed great for publishers, because they get consumers to
commit cash early, where waiting for the book to be finished risks
potential buyers opting to spend their money elsewhere. First to
market has a big advantage. But how does the buyer "return" and get a
refund for a PDF download?



James

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools
 
K

Kev Jackson

* It is indeed great for publishers, because they get consumers to
commit cash early, where waiting for the book to be finished risks
potential buyers opting to spend their money elsewhere. First to
market has a big advantage. But how does the buyer "return" and get a
refund for a PDF download?

I think that the problem here is that with digital content of any kind,
the protections that you enjoy as a consumer are usually obsoleted by
the goods being digital. <totally off topic here>

I can go into a shop and buy a packaged application (for me it'd most
likely be a game, lets say Civ IV as it's new and happening), then a
week later I take it back. Suddenly the store won't accept it and my
consumer protections that are valid for say a lawnmower or a washing
machine are no longer valid for a computer game. Obviously I understand
the reasoning as games can (and often are) pirated, so essentially the
shops don't trust their consumers when it comes to digital goods, but
with physical products it's ok

My favourite quote (to finish with this off-topic-ness) comes from Bruce
Schneier -"Making digital files not copyable is like making *water not wet*"

</totally off topic here>
 
H

Hal Fulton

Eero said:
But Hal knows best, so we shall see what he comes up with :)

Haha... thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't necessarily
know best in this case. I only make informed decisions based on
my own opinions, and keep my fingers crossed...


Hal
 
H

Hal Fulton

Chris said:
So, do you think you got it right? No use going by the feedback
here, limited range of opinion...

It's a matter of opinion. I mostly achieved my objective, and I
stayed within the parameters I set for the project.

But the ultimate test of whether I got it right is whether people
like the result. And I think that will always be mixed. A book is
a tool, and different people are looking for different tools.


Hal
 
H

Hugh Sasse

Shifting the focus of the thread a little bit, but what would your
idea table of contents look like in an Advanced Ruby book?

Off the top of my head randomly ordered:

* Variable Scope
* Regular Expressions
* Unit Testing
* Integration Testing
* User Interface testing (Web, GUI)
{
* Module
* Class
} Probably rolled together =>
* OO design practices in Ruby (Design pattern 'thumbnails', etc)
* Metaprogramming
* Domain Specific Languages
* including Parsers, XML, YAML, etc
* Functional, logic, and Aspect oriented programming in Ruby
* Continuations
* including Continuation Passing style
* Threads and Processes
* Can you pass some of the work to Unix (an OS really geared up
for threads and procs)? And what to do if you are on VMS,
Windows, or others.
* Extensions
* Embedding Ruby
* Security, $SAFE in depth, [cryptography, hashing].intro
* Performance, benchmarking, profiling, and data structure
selection advice
* Ruby as a tool to aid ruby development:
Project automation, version control, ruby within and
around your favourite editor, documentation (RD, RDoc,
PDFs, and LaTeX) tools, and what scripting
might help in the developent process.

Packaged as an electronic book because the paper version would
be too big!
Hugh
 
D

Devin Mullins

Hello, all.
Hi, Hal.
Keyword soup:
Java
Definitely. And maybe a few words on why it's *Java's* fault, not
Ruby's, that Java's so hard to interop with. :) I get this question a
lot from coworkers.

If I think of anything, I'll send a note. Good luck!

Devin
Sorry if I duped something someone else said... quite a few replies!
 
B

Bill Guindon

Bill Guindon wrote:
..
I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

Some counterpoints for consideration:

* In contrast to offering a free online version (if even only prior to
publication) the pay-to-preview approach means you get fewer eyeballs
and have fewer bug reports & suggestions prior to publication.
Open-to-all improves quality.

Without a doubt, it would, but I think it would be a tough sell to
publishers who seem to be convinced that it would reduce future sales.
Pay-to-preview may mean fewer eyeballs than a free preview, but it's
more eyeballs than no preview (the traditional approach).
* It is indeed great for publishers, because they get consumers to
commit cash early, where waiting for the book to be finished risks
potential buyers opting to spend their money elsewhere. First to
market has a big advantage. But how does the buyer "return" and get a
refund for a PDF download?

I don't pretend to have the answer to that one. Others far smarter
than me have been stumped by it for decades.

Currently, return policies are up to the producer of the content. As
long as they make that policy known, I can make an informed choice
when I decide whether or not to buy a digital version.

Over the years, I've bought many books, but only a few PDFs. I
haven't wanted to return any of them. For now, I'm really not all
that concerned about return policies -- but that's just me.
 
J

James Britt

Bill said:
Bill Guindon wrote:
..

I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

Some counterpoints for consideration:

* In contrast to offering a free online version (if even only prior to
publication) the pay-to-preview approach means you get fewer eyeballs
and have fewer bug reports & suggestions prior to publication.
Open-to-all improves quality.


Without a doubt, it would, but I think it would be a tough sell to
publishers who seem to be convinced that it would reduce future sales.
Pay-to-preview may mean fewer eyeballs than a free preview, but it's
more eyeballs than no preview (the traditional approach).

I've had authors tell me they would never again offer a book for free
online. Yet others swear by it. It is not uncommon for O'Reily to
offer current books online for free (as part of their Open Books
project), and Bruce Eckel seems pleased with is results. APress offers
Practical Common Lisp for free, too. (Good book!) And Mark Watson is
currently working on a Ruby book that he says will be available as a
free PDF.

It's not that unusual; it is perhaps something of a tradition of its own
in geek publishing. But, yes, if you are tying to lock down every
dollar, it may be too much of a risk. It's a business, and people have
to find the model that gets them the results they want.


James


--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools
 
R

Rob .

Keyword soup:
FreeRIDE RDE ArachnoRuby Komodo Eclipse

Hal, we meet last year at RubyConf 2004. You signed my copy of the
Ruby Way book and we talked about Tycho and delicious amongst other
things.

Just wondering what it would take to get the jEdit Ruby Editor Plugin
into your keyword tagsoup? It's currently number one for the search
"ruby editor". ;)

http://jedit.org/ruby/

cheers,
Rob
 
A

Adam Sroka

James said:
Bill said:
Bill Guindon wrote:
..


I'm sure you know all of this, but just the same...

You should point them to the success of AWDWROR [1]. It certainly is
a new/controversial idea, but it seems to be win/win.

Some counterpoints for consideration:

* In contrast to offering a free online version (if even only prior to
publication) the pay-to-preview approach means you get fewer eyeballs
and have fewer bug reports & suggestions prior to publication.
Open-to-all improves quality.


Without a doubt, it would, but I think it would be a tough sell to
publishers who seem to be convinced that it would reduce future sales.
Pay-to-preview may mean fewer eyeballs than a free preview, but it's
more eyeballs than no preview (the traditional approach).

I've had authors tell me they would never again offer a book for free
online. Yet others swear by it. It is not uncommon for O'Reily to
offer current books online for free (as part of their Open Books
project), and Bruce Eckel seems pleased with is results. APress
offers Practical Common Lisp for free, too. (Good book!) And Mark
Watson is currently working on a Ruby book that he says will be
available as a free PDF.

It's not that unusual; it is perhaps something of a tradition of its
own in geek publishing. But, yes, if you are tying to lock down every
dollar, it may be too much of a risk. It's a business, and people
have to find the model that gets them the results they want.


James
I find that having a print book does several things for me: It lets me
get my eyes away from the screen for a while; it gives me something
productive to do in planes, trains, and automobiles (Passenger seats
only ;-) and it is a nice distraction at times such as during TV
commercials or while sitting on the can (Preferable to staring at the
wall.)

Because of these many advantages I will usually buy a print book if it
is of interest to me even if the same material is available online for
free or reduced cost. Having the material online is an added value,
though, because I can search it more easily when I need a quick answer
at work. Generally, however, I will not pay for an online version,
because I would rather have the print version (And I'm certainly not
going to pay twice for the same content.)
 
C

Chad Perrin

Without a doubt, it would, but I think it would be a tough sell to
publishers who seem to be convinced that it would reduce future sales.
Pay-to-preview may mean fewer eyeballs than a free preview, but it's
more eyeballs than no preview (the traditional approach).

I tend to think that a reduction in future sales isn't so much what
they're worried about, even if publishers say it is. Most people with
that kind of decision-making authority at a successful publishing house
are smart enough to see the advertising potential and product
improvement potential in pre-releasing an incomplete or unpolished work,
if you point it out to them and make a halfway decent case for it. Yes,
there's some risk of reduced sales, but it's miniscule in comparison
with the potential return in increased sales, especially if there is
secific material that will only be available in the paid-for version
still to come.

What it really boils down to, I think, is the common desire to get
dollars from everyone who would be willing to part with them. The "lost
sales" they worry about likely aren't really any reduction in total
number of sales: handled even semi-competently, you can gain more sales
than you'd lose by doing an electronic pre-release, even for free. With
current intellectual property laws and expectations in the US, however,
people in IP-related industries just have a problem tolerating the
thought that anyone got to "experience" what they're selling without
paying for it, regardless of whether that actually hurts revenue
streams.

Obviously, there are exceptions, and thank goodness O'Reilly is one of
them. A personal example of an exception working out in the publisher's
favor is the Pragmatic Programmers' Ruby books: I used wget to download
a copy of the Pickaxe book so that I'd always have it handy whether
online or not. After reading it, I was inspired to pick up a copy of
their Rails book, for which I shelled out cover price (minus my member
discount at the bookstore). I'm now planning to pick up the Pickaxe2,
again for cover price (minus the member's discount at the bookstore).

This may not work as well for fiction (for instance), but I'm not really
interested in electronic copies of novels anyway. It sure as heck works
for technical references, though.
 
W

Warren Seltzer

Here on the ruby-talk list we've all gone through the pickaxe book and =
I've gone through
most of the first Ruby Way. So you're not necessarily asking the =
Ruby-Nuby group you
might be pointing your book at...

What I wanted and did not have was a good set of exercises to train my =
mind into the new
mold. Sort of "using the blah feature, figure out a way to code a =
whatever function" type
of question and about half of them should have answers. I guess what I =
want is the Ruby
equivalent of the "C Puzzle Book" which is what made me an upper tier C =
programmer. The C
Puzzle Book was very educational because for each topic it gave simple =
questions and
answers, and each succeeding question was just a little bit more =
sophisticated so by the
time you finished a chapter you were expert in that area. =20

You could add a series of exercises to the end of each chapter. And =
put most of the
answers online where you would also have ads so you can make even more =
money. Knuth has
exercises at the end of each of his chapters and his books are =
ever-popular classics.

There are core libraries that have stood the test of time and must be =
included. What I
want in the library area though, is a set of rules and maybe programming =
exercises that
enable me to become a top-tier writer of Ruby libraries. What, for =
example, is the Ruby
answer to the versioning questions? (You know, when the new version of =
the base class has
a new method with the same name as a method in a derived class I'm =
already using...)

Warren Seltzer
 
J

James Britt

Warren said:
Here on the ruby-talk list we've all gone through the pickaxe book


Doubtful. There are newcomers on this list all the time, people who may
not even *know* of Programming Ruby, let around have read it.

I don't want anyone on this list getting the impression that they may be
out of their league or in some way do not belong here.

We're a varied lot, so it's hard to make generalizations on experience.

Dear Nuby: Please speak up and ask lots of questions.


James

--

http://www.ruby-doc.org - Ruby Help & Documentation
http://www.artima.com/rubycs/ - Ruby Code & Style: Writers wanted
http://www.rubystuff.com - The Ruby Store for Ruby Stuff
http://www.jamesbritt.com - Playing with Better Toys
http://www.30secondrule.com - Building Better Tools
 
C

Chad Perrin

Doubtful. There are newcomers on this list all the time, people who may
not even *know* of Programming Ruby, let around have read it.

I don't want anyone on this list getting the impression that they may be
out of their league or in some way do not belong here.

We're a varied lot, so it's hard to make generalizations on experience.

Dear Nuby: Please speak up and ask lots of questions.

I second that -- especially since, though I've gone through most of the
electronic pickaxe, I haven't seen Pickaxe 2 yet, and I could probably
stand to read what I have seen a few more times to absorb what's there.
Saying we've all read Pickaxe and giving the impression we're all past
that point now would make me feel a little on the slow-kid side,
frankly.
 

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