[arguably OT] Keyboards

[znôrt]

Putting the mouse on the left balances the load better. ...
What's the trick: I don't understand the question.

trick: after putting the mouse on the left, remember to grab it with your left
hand! X'D

(failure to do so may cause injuries much worse than repetitive-motion
disorder)

 

[Zlatko Duric]

Why: because keyboards already have too much for the right hand to do.
Putting the mouse on the left balances the load better.

What's the trick: I don't understand the question.

What's the trick was just a repeated question number one, to elaborate.
I wanted to know why is it better to point and click with my left hand
(which I'm doing now, btw )

Thanks anyway

 

[Tom Anderson]

Consider gettinga keyboard WITHOUT a numeric keypad. You probably never
use it. Without it, your mouse is closer to where your right hand rests.

I don't use the numpad much, but i do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

tom

 

[Lew]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

 

[Stefan Ram]

I don't use the numpad much, but i do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

There was a time when I did make extensive use of the numpad.

It was the time when I used Window's »MouseKeys« - I never
touched the physical mouse at all or did not even have one
attached.

I would use this still today would it not be for a bug that
sometimes locks modifier keys, so that a simple press of
»Del« is becoming recognized as »Crtl-Alt-Del«. Since I
often press »Del Del« (to delete two characters), in those
days, my system suddenly would reboot often in the mid of
typing a sentence :-( :-(. After several months, I found out
that this problem disappears when turning of the
»MouseKeys«. So now I am forced to use the physical mouse
again :-(.

Actually, I prefer a touchpad on the keyboard (as in
Notebooks) and - contrary to most other people - /small/
keys which respond to /light/ touches. Well, I grew up with
a Pet 2001 keyboard. But I strongly prefer the standard
layout, that is

http://www.seoconsultants.com/windows/keyboard/images/keyboard4.png

not, for example,

http://www.networktechinc.com/images/layout-rackmux-v1x-n.jpg

. I would prefer the standard layout on a notebook or even
a netbook, even for the price of smaller keys.

I do not want to /think/ when typing. Using several
computers with different keyboard layouts would make me
think about the layout each time I use a keyboard. So I want
the same layout on every computer I use. I even would prefer
the same command key codes in different editors as far as
possible.

 

[Tom Anderson]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is very
useful.

I guess utility is in the hand of the beholder. I don't use the numpad a
lot.

tom

 

[Tom Anderson]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the
numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago with
my mother and my aunt. They were in total agreement that it was silly to
have both a numeric pad and a number row on the main keyboard - until I
asked them which should go.

My mother used her computer mainly for correspondence and writing essays
for classes she was taking. She had learned to touch type on a
mechanical typewriter.

My aunt had worked as a statistician starting soon after World War II,
as a part time book-keeper for the first few years of her retirement,
and still kept the books on a volunteer basis for her swimming and
bridge clubs. Dorothy had used electronic calculators from soon after
they became available until she switched to spreadsheets.

There are no prizes for guessing who absolutely insisted on keeping
which set of number keys.

Maybe a keyboard should just come as a collection of 105 lego bricks with
keys on top, and a baseboard. Some kind of personal-area network could
collect the keypresses. Keys could use the energy of keystrokes to power
themselves. Everyone would be able to adjust their keyboard on a whim, and
everyone would have exactly the layout they wanted.

The only downside of this is that in my office, i can guarantee that i'd
come in one day and find that my home row had been replaced by a rank of
tiny spearmen.

tom

 

[Tom Anderson]

Or not.

On my workstation (some years ago), it took me two years before
noticing that my numpad was correctly configured (at that time, using
Linux on an Alpha, such things were not always working out of the box).
This means that I had programmed and typed text on that system for
two years, without even once touching the numpad. I daresay that the
numpad is very useless for me.

(This is not so true on my home PC, because the numpad is useful to move
units when playing Civilization.)

Yes, this is the one use i have for the numpad - but i only play Civ on my
laptop, which doesn't have one!

tom

 

[Lew]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had a few years ago with
my mother and my aunt. They were in total agreement that it was silly to
have both a numeric pad and a number row on the main keyboard - until I
asked them which should go.

My mother used her computer mainly for correspondence and writing essays
for classes she was taking. She had learned to touch type on a
mechanical typewriter.

My aunt had worked as a statistician starting soon after World War II,
as a part time book-keeper for the first few years of her retirement,
and still kept the books on a volunteer basis for her swimming and
bridge clubs. Dorothy had used electronic calculators from soon after
they became available until she switched to spreadsheets.

There are no prizes for guessing who absolutely insisted on keeping
which set of number keys.

And that illustrates what my real point was.

It is silly to make pronouncements about "the numpad not being that
useful" since that depends on the user, so I intentionally was just as
silly claiming that it's "very, very useful". Obviously I was
speaking from my own point of view only, but in the absolute in order
to counteract the absolute claims being made about a subjective
matter. Anyone should have been able to recognize that.

 

[Martin Gregorie]

I do not want to /think/ when typing. Using several computers with
different keyboard layouts would make me think about the layout each
time I use a keyboard. So I want the same layout on every computer I
use. I even would prefer the same command key codes in different
editors as far as possible.

I only have two suggestions here - vi and microEmacs.

Both are small, fast, portable, open source editors. I use vi as a fall-
back because all *nixen have it (so does Windows) and microEmacs from
choice. Its customisable and the customisations are also portable. So far
it has ported easily to any OS I've needed it on and always worked
exactly the same. However, since its a keyboard driven console editor
rather than having a graphical/mouse interface it may not suit everybody.

 

[Lew]

What's the trick was just a repeated question number one, to elaborate.
I wanted to know why is it better to point and click with my left hand
(which I'm doing now, btw )

Thanks anyway

Why do you say "anyway"?

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

I suspect that the usefulness or non-usefulness depends a lot
on the person using the keyboard.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

It only supports Windows and Mac, that makes it useless.

For those 1-2% not using Windows or MacOS X.

Arne

 

[Zlatko Duric]

Why do you say "anyway"?

I didn't say "anyway". I just wrote it. Thanking you for the
explanation. The word "anyway" just got in there, without real need or
sense or meaning, as is this post.

 

[Lew]

I don't use the numpad much, but i [sic] do use the keys in between
the numpad
and the main block, and without a numpad, you don't get a proper version
of those. But yes, good point about the numpad not being that useful.

Actually, it's a really, really terrible point since the numpad is
very useful.

I suspect that the usefulness or non-usefulness depends a lot
on the person using the keyboard.

My point exactly, as explained upthread.

 

[Roedy Green]

Removing the
numeric keypad from the right of the keyboard will have no effect on where the
right hand rests whatsoever if people do that smart thing.

I don't have a numeric keypad on my Kinesis (there is an embedded
one). My right hand rests with the right pinky just north west of the
right shift key. The mouse sits immediately to the right.

With a conventional keyboard, the mouse would be several inches to the
right because the keypad would intervene.

see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/kinesis.html
for a picture of the layout which should make this clear.

The numeric keypad is for numeric data entry. You might use it for
accounting or statistics. You would not use it for word processing,
programming, web browsing, social networking. To get an idea of how
often it is used, have a look at the wear on the legends on used
computer keyboards.

 

[Lew]

Lew wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :

I don't have a numeric keypad on my Kinesis (there is an embedded
one). My right hand rests with the right pinky just north west of the
right shift key. The mouse sits immediately to the right.

With a conventional keyboard, the mouse would be several inches to the
right because the keypad would intervene.

see http://mindprod.com/bgloss/kinesis.html
for a picture of the layout which should make this clear.

You apparently missed my comment upthread that I used a Kinesis kb for years.

The numeric keypad is for numeric data entry. You might use it for
accounting or statistics. You would not use it for word processing,
programming, web browsing, social networking. To get an idea of how
often it is used, have a look at the wear on the legends on used
computer keyboards.

You elided the important part of my comment: that "that smart thing" is to put
the mouse on the left. Removing anything from the far right of the keyboard
then has no effect on right-hand placement because the mouse is on the left.
Thus the basis for my remark is not the disputable value of the keypad but the
irrelevance if the mouse is switched to the left.

I used a Kinesis keyboard for five years on a job. Hardly a day went by that
I didn't lament its lack of a separate numeric keypad. Many times I did
switch the keys to embedded numeric mode, but it was a poor substitute.
Utility is in the hand of the holder.

That didn't affect where my right hand rested because I had the mouse on the left.

 

[Roedy Green]

cast into room 101

Could you explain that reference? I presume it means
"discarded/destroyed".

 

[Roedy Green]

It only supports Windows and Mac, that makes it useless.

Huh? I thought any Windows keyboard automatically worked on Linux.
Does it need a special driver?

 

[Roedy Green]

What's the trick was just a repeated question number one, to elaborate.
I wanted to know why is it better to point and click with my left hand

One reason is the mouse is closer to where you normally rest your left
hand that a mouse on the right is to where you normally rest your
right hand, at least if you don't have the old IBM layout with the
function keys on the left.