beta2 XHTML compliance? is this necessary. OR STUPID...read UP MICROSOFT

[Tim McOwan]

You know, rhat, it's funny, on the one hand you're saying "... when they
even can't do one themselves. The only thing they
try for, OR can try for, is a 3-letter acronym to add to their signature
and
"already" worthless resume by posting ...." and on the other hand, everyone
is hearing "....blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah...."
Isn't it funny how the human mind works to filter out utter crap!

 

[Brian Henry]

is that why you're here too? because it sure seems like you have nothing
better to do then fight over something that isn't even an issue you seem to
have one bit of knowledge on? You still have yet to answer the question of
WHAT BROWSERS DOESN'T IT WORK ON... you seem to ignore this question as if
you know you've been trapped in a corner and cant get out because you are
surrounded by tons of people that work day and night in this area and know
what does and doesnt work... yet you can't answer a simple question of what
browsers... the really funny thing, everything that you complain about
people in this group is exactly what you exibiting in your own behavior.

 

[rhat]

ZERO FACTS? REALLY?

Here's FACTS: http://tinyurl.com/8lwgb

What does this mean? If you are here every day constantly posting or even a
just a few days a week, it means you are not at a REAL JOB because REAL
J.O.B. don't have all the SPARE TIME or FREE TIME YOU HAVE.

Do you see the top programmers from MS, or SUN, or IBM here even a single
day of the week?
NO, NO, NO, NO

How about the average programmer? No, No, No, No.

Last time I check, most programming projects from MS are what? L.A.T.E. but
somehow you have all this SPARE TIME? Since you have all this spare time why
not see if you can actually get some spare work at MS as they can't even get
Longhorn or anything else for that matter out the door.

The reality is that in order to get a M.V.P means you have to have
"significant" contributions, i.e.. newsgroup postings and the like...free
info, doesn't mean right info, it actually works in the real world info.

THUS, IF YOU ARE HERE, means you can't be THERE at a JOB or DOING A REAL
J.O.B.
Even if you TELECOMMUTE, you can be in TWO places at the same time. That is
are busying writing a newsgroup post or busy writing a PROGRAM. See the
difference

Getting an M.V.P almost always means you have no J.O.B. nor can keep a JOB
But since you are SO WELL KNOWN, how can you have so much SPARE TIME to
begin with? The TOP programmers are ALWAYS in DEMAND and DO NOT, REPEAT DO
NOT HAVE any SPARE TIME. Thus, you must not be a top programmmer. GOT IT?

SO THERE ARE YOUR FACTS for the REAL WORLD TO SEE just how EMPTY the MVP and
newsgroup world really is.

PURE LOGIC: You can't be in two places at the same time and MVP's violate
that all the time, thus they are not telling the complete TRUTH when they
say there are here in their spare time and have some great job.

 

[Juan T. Llibre]

rhat,

I have been looking at your posts,
wondering what makes you so angry.

I had decided not to answer, thinking that you were a troll.

Now I see that you're only misinformed.

One giveaway is this statement by you:

Since you have all this spare time why not see
if you can actually get some spare work at MS

I wonder if you know that MVPs *cannot* work
at Microsoft *and* continue to be MVPs ?

That's right. Once you accept employment with Microsoft,
you cannot continue to be an MVP. MVPs are not Microsoft employees.

So, in a sense, your next statement that :

THUS, IF YOU ARE HERE, means you can't be THERE at a JOB

is entirely correct, but not for the reason you wrote it.

Another misconception you have is this one :

Getting an M.V.P almost always means you have no J.O.B. nor can keep a JOB

Actually, 99% of MVPs have either very well-paying jobs or a successful business
they run, and many MVPs have wound up working for Microsoft and are no longer MVPs.

You probably have used software written by MVPs and haven't realized it,
or you have looked up information at websites run by MVPs whom you didn't
know are MVPs, or maybe you went to a user group meeting where an MVP
gave a free conference on something you are interested in.

There's over 2600 MVPs in 81 countries currently.
Surely you don't mean to throw mud at *all* of us, do you ?

If you have a beef with a specific MVP please articulate it but don't,
in a not-very-smart way, throw mud on all of us. It's simply not fair.

Or, if that's your intent (to throw mud on all of us),
admit you're rankled and tell us why.

So far I see you as someone with mistaken information.
It will be up to you to set the record straight, or be considered a troll.

best regards,

 

[Teemu Keiski]

Yes,

ZERO facts since you failed to answer the detailed (and very simple)
questions other persons pointed to you in this thread (they were trying to
help you). Instead, you keep this ridiculous flaming going on and ignore the
obvious facts and civilized discussion that was handed to you. Instead, you
keep immature stuff going on since you really can't keep up with hard facts.
All you can do is flame others.

And you don't seem to get that I (or others) don't care a bit what you say
or think about MVPs (or me). It has 0 (yes, ZERO) significance to us. You
are pure loser, nothing else, what comes to knowing what you talk about (or
you say you work with).

 

[Brian Henry]

and just so you know a LOT of the people in here are college students... If
you asked everyone their age that ever posted in here you'd find that a lot
of them are still in college learning and have no need to be working as it
is right now! People are here to learn and find new stuff and solve
problems. No one person can memorize the entire workings of a framework and
all the possible situations or scenerios along with how something works and
what doesn't... it's IMPOSSIBLE... many of us here know multiple langauages
also... I alone know C++, FoxPro, C#, VB classic, LISP, MIPS Assembly, IA32
Assembly, Java, X/HTML, CSS, COBOL, Perl, PHP, and ML... There is no way in
heck that I know everything about ever one of those languages either, and
yes I do have to read books to learn more, and come to groups like this when
there is something I've never touched before in what I've done with those
languages... to think that people even people who have been programming 20+
years could know everything and never need help is very ignorent, just
because you post here or ask for help or help others here does not mean you
don't have a job... lots of people do this as a hobby on their own free
time! Just because you have a job doesn't mean you have free time, or need
to spend every freaking minute codeing for a job of your life.

 

[goody8]

YOU, YES YOU!!!

Do you know what a *J* *O* *B* is?

You especially sit around in these newsgroups all day long, posting away
which is NOT the same as programming away.

If you did the later, YOU MIGHT be able to GET / KEEP A JOB.

I get the impression that rhat doesn't have a job. Otherwise, he
couldn't spend so much time posting here. ;->



Anyway, I have received MUCH-appreciated help from MVP's over the
years, and I have nothing but respect for them. They provide a
valuable service and I would like to thank them all for their help.


Rhat has issues.

 

[Herfried K. Wagner [MVP]]

Anyway, I have received MUCH-appreciated help from MVP's over the
years, and I have nothing but respect for them. They provide a
valuable service and I would like to thank them all for their help.

Thank you !

 

[james]

Comments inline:

I know, I do have serious issues when you got MVPs / MWP's who day in and
day out, 365 days a year give advice as if they were *experts* but when in
reality these same people have no real J.O.B. as the spend all day here in
the newsgroups.

The people you seem to be complaining about are from all over the world and what seems to be
them being here "day in and day out, 365 days a year", is simply not true. And they do not spend
all day here in the newsgroups. A lot of posts don't show up immediately and then show up all at
once. Using the time shown in your news reader for a post is no indication on when it was actually
posted.
You are obviously a troll as you have not said anything that backs up your statements.

Nor have these people ever written a "real world" application that people
use and pay money for yet they think they have the right to tell anyone how
to do their app when they even can't do one themselves. The only thing they
try for, OR can try for, is a 3-letter acronym to add to their signature and
"already" worthless resume by posting constantly so MS will "recognize"
their contributions to the "community". Contributions or CONFUSIONS as these
people have no or very little real world experience and especially couldn't
code an app if their lives depended upon it, but somehow think they know
better than even the worse programmers but at least they have a working app
and they get paid for it and they at least have and know what the 3-letter
acronym J.O.B..is.

It sounds to me like you are jealous of the people with the MVP status. Could it
be you wish you could add that to your "already worthless resume" ?

And besides, what makes you an expert? It is obvious that you know nothing about
the MVP program or the people involved. I think what is happening here is nothing
more than childish resentment. What happened? Did you ask a question in one of the
newsgroups and none of the MVP's would answer it for you? Maybe, it is because
they felt you could/should be able to find the answer to your question on your own.
I have benifited greatly from the advice and help given in the newsgroups by the very
people you complain about. And on more than one occaision I have asked a question
that , had I taken the time to do a bit of research, I would not have needed to post my
question as a bit of Googling would have turned up the fact that the question and answer
had already been given (several times). In those cases either my question was ignored or
I was told to use Google to find the answer. I did not resent either situation. I understood
that I needed to do some footwork on my own , before asking a question that has been
answered countless times. I didn't go into a temper fit and complain about the "worthless"
people who answered.(or didn't as the case may be)
You have no right to sit in judgement of a system that has worked and worked well for a
long time. That it didn't benifit you is your problem. No one elses.
It is time to grow up and quit attacking those that give of their time and knowledge that you seem
to resent so much. Besides, all of them work for a living , so it IS something special that they will
take the time to help others............... you should appreciate them instead of attacking them.
I for one do appreciate their help.
james

 

[james]

well, the people here in these newsgroups spend all their days here, day in
and day out, blabbing away, and NOT really solving problems NOR are they
accountable for their decision....and that's why they are here, cause they
can't handle the real world

Simple answer to your posts................you are a TROLL............go away and let the grownups get to work.
james

 

[Kevin Spencer]

PURE LOGIC: You can't be in two places at the same time and MVP's violate

that all the time, thus they are not telling the complete TRUTH when they
say there are here in their spare time and have some great job.

Not pure logic, I'm afraid. I am an MVP. I am NOT here in my spare time, nor
have I ever said that I was. I do have a great job. I suppose it could pay
better, but I do get to do some fascinating stuff with some fascinating
stuff. Now, as to spare time, well, you may be interested to know that even
Microsoft employees are encouraged to participate in communities, to help
others, and to build relationships. This is true even when they are "on the
clock." And, as a Senior Applications Developer for my company, I also
encourage my people to do the same. It's good for both everyone else and for
the person doing the helping. I often have to research my answers, which
increases my knowledge. And networking with other professionals is always a
good thing. I have dozens of friends I can turn to when I need help with
something, as we all do (need help), always.

So, as to your logic, your premise that MVPs "Say there [sic] are here in
their spare time" is incorrect. I for one, have never said such a thing.
Therefore, your conclusions based upon that premise are flawed as well. In
fact, there is no logical reason for making such statements at all. What
does it accomplish? Is there some logical purpose behind this flame war?

In short, we all get a bit pissed at times when we're under the gun, and
those of us on the bleeding edge of things are often under the gun. I don't
know if that's the case with you, but it certainly is the case with myself.
I have found that, while it is nearly impossible to avoid getting angry,
hanging on to anger is counter-productive. Smash a keyboard and get on with
what does matter.

I'm not singling you out, BTW. I have seen quite a bit of vitriol in this
protracted battle of words, from quite a few people. Some discussions are
better off abandoned. The definition of insanity is a person that keeps
doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again. Assuming you
have had a point to make at some time, I'm sure you have had ample
opportunity to make it. If there are those who choose to ignore it, there is
nothing you can do to force them to accept it. Therefore, it is best to walk
away.

Have a cup of Starbucks French Roast (or whatever your personal favorite
is), take a deep breath, and may the force be with you. And now, back to my
screaming deadline, my screaming bosses, personnel, and friends all.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Ambiguity has a certain quality to it.

 

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

Rhat,

You dont need to flame people - no one is asking you to re-write your apps.
Only an idiot would suggest they were going to do that when they have
perfectly compliant and working web applications!

You are of course correct - getting it to work is all important. Any
competent developer can make applications work cross browser in any
language - do you perhaps need some help getting your to work cross browser.
Thats why we are here after all - to help each other!

I DO code, and in many languages, so can probably find an answer to your
specific issues.
--
Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

 

[Random]

Ignorance, child, is no excuse for rudeness. I have authored a number of
sites, before and after .NET (yes, a lot of hand-coded HTML), and as others
here have patiently told you, the issues you are facing are CSS related, not
XHTML. Any problems you are having are browser issues, and very likely
completely unrelated to the issues you are having.

I, for one, am very grateful to have these newsgroups as a resource when my
own research and experimentation fails to provide the answers I seek. In
return I try to help others with their own issues. I do not have MVP
status, I just like to give back to the community when I can. It's called
reciprocation.

Unfortunately, while this rant of yours has proved entertaining, it has also
been insulting. I, for one, cannot comprehend why anyone would want you to
build a web site for them. You seem to have no desire to move forward and
accept change as a necessary component to progress. So, for your own sake,
pull your head out of the sand and do what needs to be done, and stop
complaining about it.

 

[rhat]

There's over 2600 MVPs in 81 countries currently.

Surely you don't mean to throw mud at *all* of us, do you ?

Not the ones who can get J.O.B.

But the ONES WHO ARE STILL HERE, DAY AFTER DAY, WEEK AFTER WEEK, YEAR AFTER
YEAR.....still POSTING, POSTING, POSTING.....which is not coding or
programming

If you have a beef with a specific MVP please articulate it but don't,
in a not-very-smart way, throw mud on all of us. It's simply not fair.

STOP the XHTML Nonsense because us in the REAL world develop for CUSTOMERS,
NOT STANDARDS that STILL ARE NOT ADOPTED

Of course those MVP's who are still here wouldn't know what a customer is
anyway.

 

[rhat]

Typical.

I can see the help you offer to those here is something you yourself don't
value much.

If you did, you would get a job and get paid and a thank you for it, instead
of a just simple thank you.

So, that brings a good point here, MVP's have the same VALUE as a thank you.

WOW, that's MOST VALUABLE! That is, to a *Most Valuable Professional*

Accordingly, that would make 99% of the general public a MVP then, as most
everyone can get a thank you once in while.

 

[rhat]

I wonder if you know that MVPs *cannot* work
at Microsoft *and* continue to be MVPs ?

That's right. Once you accept employment with Microsoft,
you cannot continue to be an MVP. MVPs are not Microsoft employees.

That's a GOOD thing, at least for Microsoft it is. Doing consulting for FREE
is not how Microsoft is going to stay profitable or in business. Spending
all or too much time in the community means that software will not ship if
someone is supposed to eventually do the coding for it. But of course, MVP's
wouldn't know what that is because spend all the time here, not know
*actually* how to code in the first place but are good at appearing to know
what they are talking about.. And that what they are good at, talking, NOT
coding.

 

[LeapFrog]

Dude:

Aren't you just a teensy bit of the pot calling the kettle black? What the
hell was the point of your thread? To waste bandwidth?

I have an idea. Go ask Mommy to give you a glass of milk. Maybe then
you'll calm down a little.

As for the FREE consulting, some of us come here to help AND learn. It's a
give and take thing. But I guess you're a little to dense to get that
concept.

Are we done yet? Is it time to move on?

 

[C-Services Holland b.v.]

YOU, YES YOU!!!

Do you know what a *J* *O* *B* is?

You especially sit around in these newsgroups all day long, posting away
which is NOT the same as programming away.

Seems you have no job yourself seeing how much time you spend in these
newsgroups flaming everything under the sun.

 

[John Timney \(ASP.NET MVP\)]

Well 99% of the people in this community certainly could become an MVP - if
they had the capability, aptitide and attitude. A thank you is certainly
all I need to realise that the people I help for free appreciate my time -
given freely. Being an MVP is not about reward, its about community spirit
and participation. The reward is the simple thank you now and again which
is enough. I get paid extremely well for what I do in my job - the
recognition of my peers is an added bonus.

Give me a simple thank you any day.

Regards

John Timney
ASP.NET MVP
Microsoft Regional Director

Typical.

I can see the help you offer to those here is something you yourself don't
value much.

If you did, you would get a job and get paid and a thank you for it,
instead
of a just simple thank you.

So, that brings a good point here, MVP's have the same VALUE as a thank
you.

WOW, that's MOST VALUABLE! That is, to a *Most Valuable Professional*

Accordingly, that would make 99% of the general public a MVP then, as most
everyone can get a thank you once in while.

 

[WRH]

For more than 30 years I earned a living programming and now that I
am semi-retired I still love to program and learn. I've had experience
with everything from super-computers like CRAY & NEC and languages
from Fortran to C#. I'm not an MVP but I must say that I consider their
postings a very valuable resource. Some of their in-depth knowledge
can only come from on the job experience. MS employees also interact
with the community either via the newgroups or chat sessions.
I could care less whether they are currently working or not...what I care
about is getting information on my particular problem.