Creating a popup window

P

Pete

Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****


What I have now is

<html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
visible.</body></html>

Can this be done?

Thank you
Peter
 
E

Els

Pete said:
Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****


What I have now is

<html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
visible.</body></html>

Can this be done?
Click to expand...

You can "pop up" a new window, yes (if the user hasn't changed the
settings on his/her browser to avoid it).
But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
another window, invisible to them.

Long story short: don't open up new windows.
 
P

Pete

Long story short: don't open up new windows.
Click to expand...

Thank you Els. This type of good practice guidance backed up by an
explanation is useful. I will not pursue this further on my website.
Pete
 
T

Travis Newbury

Els said:
But you can't set the size of that window, it will be the size the
user has set as default window size. That means that for people who
surf full screen, the BBC site will also be full screen, and thus
cover your site. Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
another window, invisible to them.
Click to expand...

And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
has ever happened to them while surfing...
 
E

Els

Travis said:
And after seeing the back button doesn't work, no one would ever think
of closing the window. Because of course, this is the first time this
has ever happened to them while surfing...
Click to expand...

Of course they can close the window. It's an annoyance though.
Especially if from the BBC site they navigate elsewhere, and whereever
they go, new windows are openened. After an hour or two of surfing,
there are 20 windows to be closed. Not funny.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Els said:
Of course they can close the window. It's an annoyance though.
Especially if from the BBC site they navigate elsewhere, and whereever
they go, new windows are openened. After an hour or two of surfing,
there are 20 windows to be closed. Not funny.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with you. _Unwanted_ popups (ones
that suddenly appear without being requested) can be annoying, and that
is why someone should use never use them on their site. On the other
hand, linked popups (to me) are much less annoying, and sometimes I
actually prefer them (say the little calendar popup when choosing the
date range at a hotel site, or airline).

Just my opinion
 
J

jake

Pete <[email protected]> said:
Hi, I have searched Google & the newsgroups for how to create a popup window
but can't find exactly what I want. What I want is to create a new popup
window (if this is the correct term) when someone clicks on a hyperlink in
my webpage *****without using Javascript or VBScript etc*****


What I have now is

<html><body>this is some text in my html code that I use and when someone
clicks on <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk>BBC</a> the browser navigates to
the BBC website. What I would like it to do is popup a new browser window
with BBC website but leave my page underneath and still
visible.</body></html>

Can this be done?

Thank you
Peter
Click to expand...
Yes/No (although a better term might be 'spawn a new window').

You'll need to use Javascript though, if you want the spawned window to
differ in size from the user's default, otherwise the new window will
simply sit on top of the original.

Don't forget to put a warning -- something like 'site opens in a new
window' at a suitable place on the page. This will help:
(a) Users of screen-readers/talking-browsers who might miss the audio
queue to tell them a new browser window is opening, and
(b) People who have been using for the Web for less than 5 minutes and
don't realise that such a thing is possible ;-)

regards.
 
E

Els

Travis said:
Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with you. _Unwanted_ popups (ones
that suddenly appear without being requested) can be annoying, and that
is why someone should use never use them on their site. On the other
hand, linked popups (to me) are much less annoying, and sometimes I
actually prefer them (say the little calendar popup when choosing the
date range at a hotel site, or airline).

Just my opinion
Click to expand...

:)

Things like little calender popups are okay imo, but they're
JavaScript dependent. And I too sometimes prefer to have a link open
in a new window, or in a new tab. That's when I right click the link
and choose an option. I hate it when they open new windows without
asking me, while I have a tabbed browser so that I don't need so many
windows open!
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Els wrote:

[author opening new windows]
Then, if the user wants to go back to your site,
they'll press the back-button on their keyboard, or click the
back-button of their browser, but it won't work, cause your site is in
another window, invisible to them.
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating page authors opening new windows in the slightest,
but as a topic of discussion:

Back in about 1996 I used a browser which, when the user chose to open a
link in a new window, caused the new window to inherit the browser
history from the old window. I found this a useful feature because you
could then, if you chose, navigate backwards in the new window while
continuing elsewhere in the original window.

I'm not aware of this feature being implemented in any of the more
common recent browsers. Does anyone here know better, or consider that
it would be valuable?

Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."

Andrew
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Pete said:
Thank you Els. This type of good practice guidance backed up by an
explanation is useful. I will not pursue this further on my website.
Click to expand...

A lot of the people who can really help out in this group like that kind
of attitude. You'll be able to able to learn a lot here - I did, almost
entirely by lurking, in fact.

(If you snip the bits of the post you're not replying to you'll become
the teachers' pet hereabouts!)

Andrew
 
E

Els

Andrew Donaldson wrote:

[new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]
Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."
Click to expand...

I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002), but
maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?
I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
card stuff. No idea really :)
 
T

Travis Newbury

Andrew said:
Back in about 1996 I used a browser which, when the user chose to open a
link in a new window, caused the new window to inherit the browser
history from the old window...
Arguably, it might help reduce the confusion of users who have windows
opened automatically for them and don't realise, even if it might leave
them with a plethora of windows open at the end of a browsing session.
However, I think that it could be beneficial for "power-users."
Click to expand...

I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
working, you know you have to close the window to return. If the
history works, then you would be more likely have more orphaned windows
because there is no need to close the one you are in.
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Els said:
[new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]

I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)
Click to expand...

Wow - you got very good very quickly!
but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?
Click to expand...

It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
this was true.
I don't know much about cookies and sessions and anything related, but
istm that if in a new window you go back to where you were in the old
window, and log in somewhere, it could interfere with what you were
doing in the old window. I'm thinking filling out forms and credit
card stuff. No idea really :)
Click to expand...

Me neither :) That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
returning to the session in the original window, I think.

Andrew
 
E

Els

Andrew said:
Els said:
[new window inheriting history from old window - back in 1996]

I have never heard of it (I got on the web first time in 2002)
Click to expand...

Wow - you got very good very quickly!
Thanks said:
but maybe they got rid of it cause it could be a security risk?
Click to expand...

It wasn't consciously got rid of, development of it all but ceased in
about 1998 when the company (Acorn) stopped doing hardware and desktop
software and morphed into several other companies. The browser was
called, believe it or not, Browse - Acorn had a thing about minimalist,
descriptive names. I recall Browse was claimed to have the HTML 4
compliance and PNG support of any browser at the time, but don't now if
this was true.
Click to expand...

Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
then :)
Me neither :) That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me, but this
was before online transactions were commonplace anyway so it was maybe
not an issue then. I'd hope that such sessions were more robust than
that now anyway, since the same interference could be caused just by
opening a new window part way through a session and proceeding then
returning to the session in the original window, I think.
Click to expand...

Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Els said:
Acorn - a name I hear mentioned by computer dinosaurs every now and
then :)
Click to expand...

Quiet - you'll upset the 10 year old fossil in the corner that is my
most recent Acorn...

[separate browser windows handling the same session]
Well, recently I noticed some (to me odd) behaviour on a UK train
times site - I wanted to compare two different routes, and I decided
to look up one in one tab, and already the second in another tab.
As soon as I started the second one, the first one got aborted.
Click to expand...

That particular problem doesn't sound like a browser/session issue:
pretty much everything to do with UK trains works like that ;-)

Andrew
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Travis said:
Andrew Donaldson wrote:
Click to expand...

[new window inherits browser history from old window]
I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
working, you know you have to close the window to return.
Click to expand...

You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
window?"
If the history works, then you would be more likely have more
orphaned windows because there is no need to close the one you are
in.
Click to expand...

Didn't I say that? However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
remain unaware of the orphans. Or the user is competent, browsing in
multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
before in some situations.

I'd certainly only suggest that the feature could/should be introduced
to cater for the latter case, and not solely to help users avoid
problems caused by authors foisting new windows on them.

Andrew
 
E

Els

Andrew said:
[new window inherits browser history from old window]
I think that would be even more confusing. With the history not
working, you know you have to close the window to return.
Click to expand...

You or I do maybe, but there appear to be many people who don't realise
this and could then happily carry on unaware that anything has happened.
This would then kind of raise the question "why bother opening a new
window?"
Click to expand...

Good Q :)
However, unless users browse long enough to exhaust
the resources of their computer, they exit the browser or shut down, and
remain unaware of the orphans.
Click to expand...

No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
"oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
see...
This will go on for as many windows as they had opened without
realising it.

AFAIK no one shuts down the entire computer without first shutting
down all the browser windows. I sometimes do, but almost always I have
too many applications open, and WinXP just gives up half way, and I
have to repeat the action.
Or the user is competent, browsing in
multiple tabs/windows anyway, and can navigate more conveniently than
before in some situations.
Click to expand...

For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
I see little use for it myself though.
 
A

Andrew Donaldson

Els wrote:

[multiple browser windows]
No, they will shut down their browser, and all of a sudden see another
site that they have come across before. They may think "wtf" or merely
"oh, forgot that one", and click the red cross on that one. Then
they'll see another window, and click the red cross, and then they
see...
Click to expand...

You're right. For some reason (maybe that I don't use it for casual
browsing any more) I was thinking that IE could exit and shut all its
windows in one operation.
For such users it could be an option set in about:config.
I see little use for it myself though.
Click to expand...

After a bit of thought, neither do I!

Andrew
 

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