"Download" or "View" PDF document?

D

David Segall

I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free version
of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would supplement
that already posted about 000WebHost.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

David said:
I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

The 'where' of a download is up to the visitor, not you or your website.
The download dialog allows user to choose where they want to save it.
(I'm frequently amused by people who say "I downloaded a file and now I
can't find it.")
I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
if it succeeds and how long it takes.

Using Ubuntu/Firefox 3.0.11, your file downloaded quite fast on my cable
connection. I saved it to where I wanted to save it. Then I tried to
open it with my document viewer, and got the following error message, so
this may be part of your problem:

Unhandled MIME type: "application/octet-stream"

It is not my reader, as it works just fine for other PDFs.
It is hosted by the free version of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so
the information would supplement that already posted about
000WebHost.

Be careful about storing important stuff at that host. Some have posted
that they may terminate an account without warning, and for no apparent
reason. I see you pump them up at http://profectus.asia/ee_cheapweb.html
and use them for your entire site. Just so ya know.

It's a nice looking site; take care of it. ;-)
 
H

Harlan Messinger

David said:
I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

Then these same people are baffled by anything they download from
anywhere on the web. It's a problem of theirs, as much as it is if they
try to print a page from your site and find that a default printer
hasn't been set on their computer. They could hardly expect you to help
them with *that*.

Firefox doesn't ask you with each download where you want it to go, but
it has a download manager that by default shows a brief notification
balloon when download is complete that you can click on to access the
file. They can also access it from the Firefox menu using Tools |
Downloads. So they don't actually have to know up front where the
documents are being stored in order to access them.
 
H

Harlan Messinger

Ed said:
Mine /always/ asks because I set that option.


Not if they automatically clear the download history each time they
close the program which is how mine is set up.

People who have managed to configure their download options are
perfectly capable of going back into the configuration to see for
themselves what directory they are downloading to and won't be flustered
by the concept.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free version
of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would supplement
that already posted about 000WebHost.

I used Firefox and have a measured download of over 6000 kbps from a
server that is not overloaded. It took about 40 seconds for your file
to appear, which is exceptionally long on my system for the file
length you have. There may be some congestion between my computer and
your server, or your server may be overloaded, which is not uncommon
on servers for free or very low priced services. I receive the e-
edition of the local newspaper as PDF, and some of their pages with
photos have a file size considerably larger than yours. The pages
usually come up very fast, a matter of just a few seconds at worst.
 
N

Neredbojias

I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
if it succeeds and how long it takes. It is hosted by the free
version of <http://www.000webhost.com/> so the information would
supplement that already posted about 000WebHost.

I've always had problems with .pdf files and think they suck.
Nevertheless, after reading the replies previous to this gem, I think
it's a server issue.
 
J

Jan C. Faerber

Be careful about storing important stuff at that host.

pinging at 000webhost.com: 208.43.150.234
at www.hosting24.com: 208.43.151.205

So why is the last hop with tracert 000webhost.com
server.hosting24.com on the same IP like 000webhost.com???
 
D

dorayme

David Segall said:
I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

Yes, there is something, you can helpfully tell your readers: to right
click (or control click for some Macs) and save where they like. It is a
common problem for *lots of folk* who use computers quite a bit but are
yet not *very* computer literate. How you do this is up to you.

If it is the odd download in the middle of a page somewhere a simple
something like: "Right-click or Control-click (for some Macs) to
download" can be helpfully inserted as a note. If you have a page
devoted specially to downloads, on that page you can add a note about
this matter at more length:

Note: You can download any of the following newsletters to your computer
and read or print them as you please, on or offline. Right-click or
Control-click (for some Macs) to download.

Ignore all absurdly exaggerated slippery slope arguments and do this
helpful thing to help those who have systems that do not auto ask where,
and for those that are using other people's computers and do not know
where the owner may have set such a thing up.

On my sites that use downloads, they tend not to be just this or that
odd one. So this is the strategy I employ: I give the isolated link in
some page (eg. download the <a href="">latest newsletter</a> without
specific help. But I add that you can also get this document at such and
such download page where some further help is provided about how to
download.

Depends on the site and audience.
 
J

John Hosking

David said:
I recently added a PDF document to my web site
<http://profectus.asia/ee_kdf6.html> and advised a few former
colleagues that it was there. One of them complained that he did not
know where, on his computer, the PDF would be downloaded to. Should I
have said "You can _view_ the KDF6 sales brochure"?

You *could* have, as a buddy, but it's not your official concern as a
Webmaster. Where it gets saved is up to the user (and hir browser
configuration).
I don't think this would have been a problem if the document appeared
quickly but a couple of them said that the download failed. I would
appreciate reports from anyone who tries to access the document about
if it succeeds and how long it takes.

Success, both in loading and then opening for viewing, and viewing
"immediately". In either case the download took about 50 seconds.
 
D

David Segall

Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
The 'where' of a download is up to the visitor, not you or your website.
The download dialog allows user to choose where they want to save it.
(I'm frequently amused by people who say "I downloaded a file and now I
can't find it.")

Yes, but I assume that my former colleague, like most people, has
simply installed the Adobe reader that would open it in his browser if
the "download" was successful. Perhaps one should say "view" rather
than "download" and maybe even provide download instructions as
suggested by dorayme.
Using Ubuntu/Firefox 3.0.11, your file downloaded quite fast on my cable
connection. I saved it to where I wanted to save it. Then I tried to
open it with my document viewer, and got the following error message, so
this may be part of your problem:

Unhandled MIME type: "application/octet-stream"

It is not my reader, as it works just fine for other PDFs.

My PDF works fine in other readers :) I use a program called Paperport
to scan images and store them as PDF files. It is likely that the
problem is caused by their program using an unusual feature. It may
even generate incorrect PDFs that are tolerated by Adobe's reader.
If you want to pursue the problem
<http://profectus.asia/text/portraitnotes.pdf> is a much smaller file
or I can generate a tiny one and email it to you. Google returns 9000
hits on your error message and "pdf".
Be careful about storing important stuff at that host. Some have posted
that they may terminate an account without warning, and for no apparent
reason. I see you pump them up at http://profectus.asia/ee_cheapweb.html
and use them for your entire site. Just so ya know.

It's a nice looking site; take care of it. ;-)

Thanks for your concern and the compliment but if it disappears
temporarily no one will suffer and, at the price, it seems
satisfactory. A cron job ensures that it has a regular visitor.
 
D

dorayme

David Segall said:
....
My PDF works fine in other readers :) I use a program called Paperport
to scan images and store them as PDF files. It is likely that the
problem is caused by their program using an unusual feature. It may
even generate incorrect PDFs that are tolerated by Adobe's reader.
If you want to pursue the problem
<http://profectus.asia/text/portraitnotes.pdf> is a much smaller file
or I can generate a tiny one and email it to you. Google returns 9000
hits on your error message and "pdf".
....

I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
program. It opened fine there too.

I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
2 MB from its original 13 MB. The pics and all looked fine on screen and
would probably print ok too. You have to ask yourself who would use up
lots of ink (that they had to pay for) to print all this? I imagine
lower res would use up less money and help finance the costly tickets to
Film Festival. <g>

In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
download.
 
J

John Hosking

dorayme said:



I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
program. It opened fine there too.

I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
2 MB from its original 13 MB. [...]

In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.
Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
download.

I did, and it did, and it took about 10 seconds (down from 50
yesterday). Repeated attempts from your server and David's site come in
at just 7 seconds, so I'm guessing there's some caching going on, but
even 10 seconds should be no problem.
 
D

dorayme

In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.
Other folks, don't click this if you don't want it, as it might start to
download.

I did, and it did, and it took about 10 seconds (down from 50
yesterday). Repeated attempts from your server and David's site come in
at just 7 seconds, so I'm guessing there's some caching going on, but
even 10 seconds should be no problem.[/QUOTE]

Should take about 2 or 3 secs on the broadband I have. Perhaps it would
be smoother on another server? I just put it up on the same server that
he uses, I don't really ever use this free one except for a few bits and
pieces for usenet mainly...

I don't fully trust it! You would think that if you are prepared, out of
the goodness of your heart, to sign up to a free server, you should be
getting an indubitably trustworthy one. What is the world coming to? <g>
 
D

David Segall

dorayme said:
...

I had no trouble simply clicking your link, waiting 30 seconds exactly,
and it coming up in my Safari. But then I have a very good non adobe
acrobat plug in installed. There is a button on it which will open it in
a stand alone reader. That stand alone reader, for me is an Adobe
program. It opened fine there too.

I am not sure if you know about this stuff David, but that file of yours
feels far too big for what it is. I had no trouble reducing it to about
2 MB from its original 13 MB. The pics and all looked fine on screen and
would probably print ok too. You have to ask yourself who would use up
lots of ink (that they had to pay for) to print all this? I imagine
lower res would use up less money and help finance the costly tickets to
Film Festival. <g>

In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

Thanks dorayme. I don't know much about "all this stuff" and I would
have had to rescan the images at a lower resolution to shrink the pdf.
I have gratefully accepted your offer and substituted your pdf for
mine. I have also added you to the credits page. If you prefer to be
listed under your real name let me know.
 
D

David Segall

John Hosking said:
Apparently he did, because it's on his site now, too.

Indeed I did. I have to confess that I didn't consider the confusion
that might cause for someone who is reading this thread from the
beginning.
 
D

dorayme

In case you want my reduction (2.1 MB), I put it here temporarily:

<http://dorayme.890m.com/downloads/kdf6_brochure.pdf>

Thanks dorayme. I don't know much about "all this stuff" and I would
have had to rescan the images at a lower resolution to shrink the pdf.
I have gratefully accepted your offer and substituted your pdf for
mine. I have also added you to the credits page. If you prefer to be
listed under your real name let me know.[/QUOTE]

Well, to tell you the truth, I don't believe in levels of reality and my
name is as real as the paving stone I tripped on the other day. No need
to mention me for such a small thing.

(btw, whenever I scan, I tend to scan at quite high a res, avoiding - as
far as possible - the software in the scanner. I use independent high
grade software to do work on the file afterwards. I scan to TIFF or PSD
and take it from there in image manipulation software... )
 

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