[EVALUATION] - E03e - The Ruby Object Model (Summary)

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Lyndon Samson wrote:
[...]

please let Mr. Matsumoto speak for himself in this issue.

Ok but are you not a little curious as to why you seem to be
antagonising so many people? Even if you are 'in the right', wouldn't
life be better if you could get your answers without annoying people?

Surely some reflection is called for. An open mind is essential for
progress in life.

amen.

..

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Aleksi wrote:
[...]

sorry, no time for such games.

..

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]

dsc = dedicated singleton class

sco = singleton class object

asco = attached singleton class object

"singleton instance" = the one and only instance
"singleton method" = a method, exclusively for one instance
"singleton class" = a class, exclusively for one instance


=>

sco = Singleton class object

sc = Singleton class

s = singleton

=> <object>.singleton

=> <object>.singletonClass

obj.class
obj.class_singleton
obj.singleton_class

obj.exclusive_singleton_class

abstracted (not specifying a class):

obj.exclusive_behaviour_carrier

obj.ebc

-

obj.exclusive_class
obj.exclass

obj.xclass



x class (x=not known yet what it is)

obj.xclass

..

 

[Lyndon Samson]

Lyndon Samson wrote:
[...]

please let Mr. Matsumoto speak for himself in this issue.

Ok but are you not a little curious as to why you seem to be
antagonising so many people? Even if you are 'in the right', wouldn't
life be better if you could get your answers without annoying people?

Surely some reflection is called for. An open mind is essential for
progress in life.

amen.

Well, IANAP but a sane person, such as myself, views your persistent
denial of any sort of fault as an indicator of some sort of
personality defect. You never acknowledge any wrongdoing, are you the
perfect person?

Maybe the conspiracy theory is true, you are in no way interested in
adding to the collective wisdom, its all about the pagerank, can we
expect to see Google ads on your site soon?

How disapointing to think you may actually be a Troll, snickering away
in your dark room somewhere. The only other individual remotely like
you I've met on the internet was a person posting to aus.tv who though
he was the real life Trueman, from the Trueman show.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it until you change your tone and
consider someone apart from yourself and your own desires and wants.

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Lyndon Samson wrote:
[...]

please let Mr. Matsumoto speak for himself in this issue.

Ok but are you not a little curious as to why you seem to be
antagonising so many people? Even if you are 'in the right', wouldn't
life be better if you could get your answers without annoying people?

Surely some reflection is called for. An open mind is essential for
progress in life.

amen.

Well, IANAP but a sane person, such as myself, views your persistent
denial of any sort of fault as an indicator of some sort of
personality defect. You never acknowledge any wrongdoing, are you the
perfect person?

your finding is false, Mr. Cyberdoctor.

[just review this thread]

Maybe the conspiracy theory is true, you are in no way interested in
adding to the collective wisdom, its all about the pagerank, can we
expect to see Google ads on your site soon?

What's wrong about this?

I mean, I've currently no incomings, thus I thought to add advertisments
in this section:

http://lazaridis.com/case/index.html

as it's anyway full of product comparisons.

but this would take the attention of the readers.

How disapointing to think you may actually be a Troll, snickering away
in your dark room somewhere. The only other individual remotely like
you I've met on the internet was a person posting to aus.tv who though
he was the real life Trueman, from the Trueman show.
think.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it until you change your tone and
consider someone apart from yourself and your own desires and wants.

think before you talk.

http://lazaridis.com/case/ide/index.html

..

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

[EVALUATION] - E03d - The Ruby Object Model (End Game)
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.lang.ruby/msg/ea9da543dc256b42

-

The above thread has led to this code:

class Class
def Meta()
@Meta ||= (class<<self;self;end)
end
end

which is modified here to:

class Object
def sso()
@sso ||= (class<<self;self;end) # see code below
end
end

simplified:
def sso()
unless @sso
@sso = (class<<self; self; end) #
end
@sso
end

-

sso = Specializing Singleton Object

-

The sso contains definitions (methods, attributes, constants) which
specialize the behaviour of its carrying object.

The "sso" of a "class object" is used to specialize the behaviour of the
class (against Class).

-

The sso's are essentially internal implementation details, although they
are accessible (see code above).

The sso's are _not_ part of the Ruby Object Model (e.g. inheritance
hierarchy).


-
-
-

As stated before, the following documentation is false:

cmd:> ri Class

"Classes, modules, and objects are interrelated. In the diagram that
follows, the arrows represent inheritance, and the parentheses
meta-classes. All metaclasses are instances of the class `Class'."

+------------------+
| |
Object---->(Object) |
^ ^ ^ ^ |
| | | | |
| | +-----+ +---------+ |
| | | | |
| +-----------+ | |
| | | | |
+------+ | Module--->(Module) |
| | ^ ^ |
OtherClass-->(OtherClass) | | |
| | |
Class---->(Class) |
^ |
| |
+----------------+

-

a) The term "meta-classes" is false.

confirmed by: Mr. Matsumoto:

"In Ruby, the Class class is the class of all classes, no metaclass."

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/40537

-

confirmed by: the general-validity term "metaclass".

[Mr. Matsumoto was unwilling to answer directly to the root-message]

Correction: "specializing-singleton-objects"

or possibly: xclass = eXclusive-class

or singleton class.

but _not_ metaclass.

this is _false_ and completely _missleading_.

b) vertical arrows do not represent inheritance
e.g.: Object---->(Object)
Correction: Object-----(Object)

confirmed by Mr. Matsumoto within this thread:

"And I will add a word "vertical" before "arrow" for
the next check in, anyway."

[Mr. Matsumoto was unwilling to answer directly to the root-message]

c) the classes in "()" do not belong to the object model
Correction: remove (showcase sso in seperate topic)

No confirmation.

Seeing the egoism-loaded community, it should take around 1 to 3 further
years to clarify this issue.

My final questions are basicly:

* Ruby is OO. Why is the sso not directly accessible?

"considered abuse" by the language designer Mr. Matsumoto

http://www.ruby-talk.org/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/40548

Of course this is irrational, as there is a "singleton-class-notation"
available, which makes the object accessible anyway.

class << <object>

No need to refuse a convenience method.

Except: Rubyist are sheeps, which must be protected from doing damage.

* Who has written the "ri Class" documentation?

from within this thread:

Mr. Matsumoto has drawn the diagramm.

Mr. Matsumoto has provided the confusion with the term "metaclass", most
possibly as he was/is confused/unclear about the theory/implementation:

ruby source-code, file "object.c"

"
void
Init_Object()
{
VALUE metaclass;

rb_cObject = boot_defclass("Object", 0);
rb_cModule = boot_defclass("Module", rb_cObject);
rb_cClass = boot_defclass("Class", rb_cModule);

metaclass = rb_make_metaclass(rb_cObject, rb_cClass);
metaclass = rb_make_metaclass(rb_cModule, metaclass);
metaclass = rb_make_metaclass(rb_cClass, metaclass);
"

vs.

"In Ruby, the Class class is the class of all classes, no metaclass."

http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/40537

..

* Can I expect an apology for this false documentation?

It looks like this community lacks any strong personalities.

I can neither expect an apology from the responsile person, Mr.
Matsumoto, nor an open, egoism-free analysis of the problem domain from
the community.

-
Many people from the community are not ashamed to used the discussion
i've initialized to understand (partly within other threads), without
saying: "hey, thank you for raising this issue. this is positive for
ruby's evolution"

http://lazaridis.com/case/lang/ruby

time to close this thread.

_such_ a waste of time.

..

 

[Nikolai Weibull]

Ilias Lazaridis, April 22:

time to close this thread.

_such_ a waste of time.

So very, very true,
nikolai

 

[Austin Ziegler]

Most know: I am right.

You misspelled "wrong." "Ignorant" is another good alternate
spelling for the word you meant. As are "asinine", "arrogant", and
even "obstinately, willfully, stupid."

You've been shown -- both practically and theoretically -- why
you're wrong. By almost a dozen people, including the language
designer.

Your pretensions don't change reality.

-austin

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

You misspelled "wrong." "Ignorant" is another good alternate
spelling for the word you meant. As are "asinine", "arrogant", and
even "obstinately, willfully, stupid."

You've been shown -- both practically and theoretically -- why
you're wrong. By almost a dozen people, including the language
designer.

Your pretensions don't change reality.

Reality is:

point b) was _directly_ confirmed by the language designer.

point a) is _indirectly_ confirmed.

point c) needs no confirmation, it is a logical conclusion.

-

so, please stop you endless babbling and accept that I'm right.

Try it: "Ilias Lazaridis is right".

It's not so difficult, even for you.

The first step is: "Ilias Lazaridis is right, at least with point b)"

go on.

-austin

..

 

[Bill Guindon]

Try it: "Ilias Lazaridis is right".

It's not so difficult, even for you.

The first step is: "Ilias Lazaridis is right, at least with point b)"

go on.

"How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"

http://www.orwelltoday.com/brainwashing.shtml

 

[Nikolai Weibull]

Ilias Lazaridis, April 22:

Try it: "Ilias Lazaridis is right".

Man, I'm giving it my best, but it keeps on coming out as "Ilias
Laziridis is wrong", "Ilias Laziridis is wrong",
nikolai

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

"How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?"

http://www.orwelltoday.com/brainwashing.shtml

another babbler.

the other one provides at least original babbling.

..

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Ilias Lazaridis, April 22:


Man, I'm giving it my best, but it keeps on coming out as "Ilias
Laziridis is wrong", "Ilias Laziridis is wrong",
nikolai

come on, try the simple one (confirmed by the language designer):

"Ilias Lazaridis is right, at least with point b)"

Or are you another one weak puppet?

..

 

[Robert McGovern]

I thought you wanted to close the thread?

Rob

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Ilias Lazaridis wrote:
[...]

sso = Specializing Singleton Object




ISBO = Instance Specific Behaviour Object

dvto = Dedicated Virtual Table Object

dvco = Dedicated Virtual Class Object

dvc = Dedicated Virtual Class




dsc = dedicated singleton class

sco = singleton class object

asco = attached singleton class object

"singleton instance" = the one and only instance
"singleton method" = a method, exclusively for one instance
"singleton class" = a class, exclusively for one instance



=>

sco = Singleton class object

sc = Singleton class

s = singleton

=> <object>.singleton

=> <object>.singletonClass

obj.class
obj.class_singleton
obj.singleton_class

obj.exclusive_singleton_class

abstracted (not specifying a class):

obj.exclusive_behaviour_carrier

obj.ebc

-

obj.exclusive_class
obj.exclass

obj.xclass

x class (x=not known yet what it is)

obj.xclass

Customizes Object

obj.customizing_class

obj.cclass

obj.custom

..

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

I thought you wanted to close the thread?

I cannot.

I've still on task active:

finding a concise name.

Rob

..

 

[Luc Heinrich]

time to close this thread.

Champagne !!!

 

[Lyndon Samson]

Champagne !!!

I think Mick Jagger and David Bowie are almost ready to kick off...

 

[Glenn Smith]

Sorry, I think I have just core dumped with laughter at this thread.

Here is my one and only post to Ilias (so don't flame me!).

Ilias, when you've developed your own programming language, and have
found the perfection you so dearly crave, give us a call will you? In
the mean time, please don't be rude to Matz. After all, he gives Ruby
to the community freely, be thankful for that. And be thankful to the
friendly people on this list who give their time and patience to
newbies like me. Don't waste any more of their time.

Other than that, I'm with Nikolai )))

 

[Ilias Lazaridis]

Sorry, I think I have just core dumped with laughter at this thread.

Here is my one and only post to Ilias (so don't flame me!).

Ilias, when you've developed your own programming language, and have
found the perfection you so dearly crave, give us a call will you? In
the mean time, please don't be rude to Matz.

He is 'rude'.

To me.

To the community.

To himself.

And most of all: To the name he carries.

After all, he gives Ruby
to the community freely, be thankful for that. And be thankful to the
friendly people on this list who give their time and patience to
newbies like me.

I am thankfull to anyone who provides concise information within the
given context.

Don't waste any more of their time.

They waste it themselves.

Other than that, I'm with Nikolai )))

..