FireFox Bug 856969 -Too much recursion error with Java LiveConnectApplet

[Richard Maher]

Hi,

I have worked out what I was doing wrong with the previous Chrome error: -
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=129528

So now Chrome is good to go but FF and IE are still causing/exhibiting
problems under certain circumstances. I have really, really narrowed
down the SSCCE and causes/effects for what I feel is demonstrably a bug
with these browsers.

See the following for complete FireFox details: -
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969

I don't think there's much on the Java or Javascript side that I can do
to mitigate the failure more than I have but I'm open to suggestions
from those of you with experience of LiveConnect.

If you can help solve the problem please do. (If you just respond to
hear your own voice then please piss off)

Cheers Richard Maher

 

[Richard Maher]

Hi,

I have worked out what I was doing wrong with the previous Chrome error: -
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=129528

So now Chrome is good to go but FF and IE are still causing/exhibiting
problems under certain circumstances. I have really, really narrowed
down the SSCCE and causes/effects for what I feel is demonstrably a bug
with these browsers.

See the following for complete FireFox details: -
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969

I don't think there's much on the Java or Javascript side that I can do
to mitigate the failure more than I have but I'm open to suggestions
from those of you with experience of LiveConnect.

If you can help solve the problem please do. (If you just respond to
hear your own voice then please piss off)

Cheers Richard Maher

This from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969 :-

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #24)

At this point, this issue is not a priority for the project. The java plugin
is a closed-source blob that has a very poor track record of spinning nested
event loops when it is not correct or safe to do so, and so we have been
more and more aggressively preventing it from doing so. The correct solution
to this bug is to stop using Java.

If somebody wants to provide a backtrace which identifies exactly how the
recursion happens, I can provide details about how you might be able to fix
the problem. Until then, this issue is not going to be tracked.

and . . .

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #26)

The Mozilla project definitely has hostility toward Java, but it's not
prejudicial. It is clear that the design of the Java plugin and code is
fundamentally insecure, and the repeated exploits against it and slow
response times make it clear that the Java plugin is not something that
should be part of the web. We have to continue supporting it for legacy
sites, but Java will be blocked by default and users will have to agree to
override the security warning in order to enable Java in the near future.

and . . .

(In reply to Richard Maher from comment #33)

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #26)

. . .but Java will be blocked by default and users will have to agree to
override the security warning in order to enable Java in the near

future.

Churlish, unworthy, and quite frankly proprietary :-(

Is everyone at Java engineering just used to being bitch-slapped in
public these days or does Larry look after his assets?

Cheers Richard Maher

 

[Silvio]

Hi,

I have worked out what I was doing wrong with the previous Chrome
error: -
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=129528

So now Chrome is good to go but FF and IE are still causing/exhibiting
problems under certain circumstances. I have really, really narrowed
down the SSCCE and causes/effects for what I feel is demonstrably a bug
with these browsers.

See the following for complete FireFox details: -
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969

I don't think there's much on the Java or Javascript side that I can do
to mitigate the failure more than I have but I'm open to suggestions
from those of you with experience of LiveConnect.

If you can help solve the problem please do. (If you just respond to
hear your own voice then please piss off)

Cheers Richard Maher

This from https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969 :-

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #24)

At this point, this issue is not a priority for the project. The java plugin
is a closed-source blob that has a very poor track record of spinning nested
event loops when it is not correct or safe to do so, and so we have been
more and more aggressively preventing it from doing so. The correct solution
to this bug is to stop using Java.

If somebody wants to provide a backtrace which identifies exactly how the
recursion happens, I can provide details about how you might be able to fix
the problem. Until then, this issue is not going to be tracked.

and . . .

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #26)

The Mozilla project definitely has hostility toward Java, but it's not
prejudicial. It is clear that the design of the Java plugin and code is
fundamentally insecure, and the repeated exploits against it and slow
response times make it clear that the Java plugin is not something that
should be part of the web. We have to continue supporting it for legacy
sites, but Java will be blocked by default and users will have to agree to
override the security warning in order to enable Java in the near

future.

and . . .

(In reply to Richard Maher from comment #33)

(In reply to Benjamin Smedberg [:bsmedberg] from comment #26)

. . .but Java will be blocked by default and users will have to agree to
override the security warning in order to enable Java in the near

future.

Churlish, unworthy, and quite frankly proprietary :-(

Is everyone at Java engineering just used to being bitch-slapped in
public these days or does Larry look after his assets?

Cheers Richard Maher

Somewhere around 2K I used to have Applets inside web-applications both
as visual components and as a generic Ajax communication broker avant la
lettre that selectively posted JS-events to the server and adjusted the
HTML from the response.

I replaced the Ajaxy stuff with equivalent JS in 2001 and have stayed
away from visual components that might once have required Applets until
SVG and later HTML5 gave me the proper tools.

Applets are an archaic artefact and Larry does not give a damn about
them. The same goes for the browser developers.

 

[Richard Maher]

On 04/16/2013 11:47 AM, Richard Maher wrote:

Applets are an archaic artefact and Larry does not give a damn about
them. The same goes for the browser developers.

Bollocks!!!

As can be seen from
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/securi...-confidence-20130417-2hz6n.html#ixzz2QfmbSO5B
there is an aggressive (albeit reactive) effort to firm-up Applets. Let
alone the giant strides that were made with the new applet plugin circa
6.10.

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/applet/applet_execution.html

Yet another parrot with the HTML5 mantra :-( SVG? SVfuckingG? Are you
serious??? Have you not seen what Adobe Flex does or do you just choose
to be blind? Then what about WebWorkers and WebSockets? Has anyone seen
two other functionally deficient and naive pieces of shit since kosher BLTs?

Anyway if there are other than fanbois here can I please have a "me too"
at: -

https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/fe...ce-error-with-java-liveconnect-applet#details

and

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969

and if you're really lonely: -

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?can=2&start=0&num=100&

q=&colspec=ID%20Pri%20M%20Iteration%20ReleaseBlock%20Cr%20Status%20

Owner%20Summary%20OS%20Modified&groupby=&sort=&id=129528

Cheers Richard Maher

 

[Richard Maher]

"Richard Maher" wrote in message
Apologies for the lack of indentation, reply at the end...

On 04/16/2013 11:47 AM, Richard Maher wrote:

Applets are an archaic artefact and Larry does not give a damn about
them. The same goes for the browser developers.

Bollocks!!!

As can be seen from
http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/securi...-confidence-20130417-2hz6n.html#ixzz2QfmbSO5B

there is an aggressive (albeit reactive) effort to firm-up Applets. Let
alone the giant strides that were made with the new applet plugin circa
6.10.

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/technotes/guides/jweb/applet/applet_execution.html


Yet another parrot with the HTML5 mantra :-( SVG? SVfuckingG? Are you
serious??? Have you not seen what Adobe Flex does or do you just choose
to be blind? Then what about WebWorkers and WebSockets? Has anyone seen
two other functionally deficient and naive pieces of shit since kosher
BLTs?

Anyway if there are other than fanbois here can I please have a "me too"
at: -

https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/fe...ce-error-with-java-liveconnect-applet#details


and

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=856969

and if you're really lonely: -

http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?can=2&start=0&num=100&

q=&colspec=ID%20Pri%20M%20Iteration%20ReleaseBlock%20Cr%20Status%20

Owner%20Summary%20OS%20Modified&groupby=&sort=&id=129528

----------------------------------------------------

Richard, I used to be a very strong proponent of applets. However, the
browser manufacturers are so hell-bent on making the applet user
experience so incredibly painful that I no longer think they are a
viable technology. The applet user virtually has to jump through flaming
hoops just to launch one of these things nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, applets are and always will be superior in what they
can achieve over HTML but as no one but Oracle wants them to succeed
(and even then that's questionable), I just can't see them ever
achieving any penetration into the world of web applications.

Added to this is the extreme hit that "brand Java" is taking in general
with the frequent and recurrent security issues. Perhaps it's been
blown out of proportion by the anti-Java crowd but there's no doubt that
public faith in anything Java running in a web browser is at an all-time
low.

For Java-based UIs, there's really only one choice: JavaFX. And it's a
really good choice! With most vendors releasing native apps instead of
HTML-based apps on many platforms now, JavaFX provides an excellent way
to leverage the power and functionality of the Java platform. And, if
you still insist, it *does* in fact run inside a web browser

--
And loving it,

-Qu0ll (Rare, not extinct)
_________________________________________________
(e-mail address removed)
[Replace the "SixFour" with numbers to email me]

It's hard hearing that from someone whose IT opinion I respect.

I've believed for years that JavaFX was still-born and now see that it
is gaining some traction but I'm with the "Browser is the GUI" crowd and
think you're painting yourself into a corner again. Even .NET sites have
conceded that sending JSON back and forth from the server is the way to
go and JavaScript is doing the GUI.

I'm not saying Java has a big part to play with the GUI (very little in
fact) but the feature rich infrastructure tool-set it brings to the
browser (even sand-boxed) is second to none.

I guess it's just that when Apple, Google, and Microsoft donned their
brown shirts and started kicking in Java's windows I expected Larry to
be a little more upset about it.

Cheers Richard Maher