Future of Java

[marcwentink]

Patricia:

Suppose instead I had spent that time and effort
getting even better than I was at NCR's assembly language....

Mmm, I am a C++ programmer and I am doing some Java/.NET study, so you
think I am doing a smart thing, if you would look into the glass bol
for the future of software programming? I hope you say yes now..

 

[Andy Dingley]

I know of Microsoft's .NET Framework is becoming increasingly popular.

Where did you read that? MSDN?

"Becoming popular" is a long way from "All other options vanish".

Now if you're a Coldfusion or even Perl wizard, then it's time to worry.
But PHP will be around for a long time yet in the shallow end of the
"well it sort of works" sites and Java is where the real work is
happening.

Go and work in 3 web shops for a bit. Gain a feel for the overall level
of _competence_ between the typical PHP, .Net and Java shop. Now show me
a PHP shop were even the concept of design patterns or Agile has
registered, let alone it just being an accepted part of day-to-day work.
You can do pretty much anything in anything, if you sweat hard enough
over it. But for myself, I'd rather play with the smart kids.

 

[Jon Martin Solaas]

Exactly. This has been a real issue for me. For example, around 1980 I
had a nice career going as project leader for several parts of the
kernel of an NCR proprietary operating system, implemented in NCR's
assembly language.

I switched from assembly language to C in the early 1980's.

That move was enabled by time and effort I had spent in evening classes
in the 1970's, studying for a master's degree in CS, including learning
about programming language structure and getting some exposure to
several languages. Suppose instead I had spent that time and effort
getting even better than I was at NCR's assembly language....

Patricia

So you actually weren't trying to have one C-career and one assembly
career going simultaneously? Probably smart move

 

[Jon Martin Solaas]

Patricia:


Mmm, I am a C++ programmer and I am doing some Java/.NET study, so you
think I am doing a smart thing, if you would look into the glass bol
for the future of software programming? I hope you say yes now..

Isn't C++ part of .NET?

 

[The Magpie]

Isn't C++ part of .NET?

No. Silly boy!

 

[Oliver Wong]

Isn't C++ part of .NET?

Not exactly. See:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.cobol/msg/f81481a6da8503ec

- Oliver

 

[marcwentink]

Jon:

Isn't C++ part of .NET?

Yes and No, see the other link, but the thing is, most code for .NET
will be written in C#, VB.NET. Hence C++ for .NET is just there to
please the old MFC VC++ programmers. And I think it will probably die
as a MicroSoft environment supported máin language. C++ is used for
some open source projects, and a bit with Borland C++ Builder. So if
you would like to specialize in .NET, C# is the best choice, IMHO, not
C++.

 

[The Magpie]

Jon:


Yes and No, see the other link, but the thing is, most code for .NET
will be written in C#, VB.NET. Hence C++ for .NET is just there to
please the old MFC VC++ programmers. And I think it will probably die
as a MicroSoft environment supported máin language. C++ is used for
some open source projects, and a bit with Borland C++ Builder. So if
you would like to specialize in .NET, C# is the best choice, IMHO, not
C++.

This sort of thing really gets my goat! No offense to you, Marc, or to
the other poster with the link.

Facts first: C++, like C original, are nada, zip, zilch, zero, damn-all,
totally, completly and utterly **NOTHING** to do with Microsoft in any
way, shape, form, or anything else whatsover!

What both Marc and the other poster are referring to is that C++ (like
Java, cobol, algol or any other goddamn programming language that you
care to name) *can* be used with .NET if Microsoft bother to put the
hooks into it but that *none* of them "belong" to either Microsoft or
..NET. They are and will always remain *independent* languages that can
be *used* with .NET and that is all. They are not and never will be in
any way "part of .NET".

Why does this bother me? Its because I teach adults and even among the
relatively bright, relatively well-informed among the general public I
hear around 60% who have been conned into seriously *believing*
stupidities like "Microsoft own the internet". I am not joking - there
are that many who believe something so stupid! This is pure marketting
hype from Microsoft and the more we pander to it by not making the clear
distinction between what genuinely *is* from Microsoft and what is not,
the more important Microsoft *appears* to be - without having to bear
any actual responsibility from the products it "claims".

 

[marcwentink]

The Magpie:

What both Marc and the other poster are referring to is that C++ (like
Java, cobol, algol or any other goddamn programming language that you
care to name) *can* be used with .NET if Microsoft bother to put the
hooks into it

Yes everything you say is true. But since MicroSoft had a large market
share in C++ development with Visual C++, and now is moving his effort
to .NET and C#, a part of the C++ job market is gone. Mainly the MFC
Visual C++ companies will be 'guided' to .NET and C#.

This is not a judgement from me of Microsoft or anything, good or bad
it is how I think the market will develop. And correct me if I am
wrong, and I would love to be corrected in this, but I think that as a
C++ developer, you would nowadays have not that much more job
oppertunities apart from open source and a bit of Borland C++, since,
like I have written, MicroSoft, a big player in the IDE market will put
his effort on C#.

But I you say I am talking nonsense I will be more then happy if you
correct me. Nevertheless if I look at job opertunities in .NET mostly
they ask C# experience. And you try to convince some human resource
girl that C++ experience is just as good, forget it.