HELP!...Google SketchUp needs a Python API


R

r

Hello fellow Python Advocates!
Help me promote Python to a larger audience.

An introduction to SketchUp:
====================
I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
best 3d CAM program available.
If you have not checked it out and do modeling of any kind, or want to
learn modeling, you need to see it right away. SketchUp offers a
simple and intuitive interface for drawing 3D models. Very powerful,
and Very simple. Now before you say "Blender has a Python API", your
right, but Blender and SketchUp are like two sides of the "modeling
mountain". There are things you can do in 5 minutes with SketchUP that
would take hours with Blender, and vice versa. SketchUp is more
archtecural based.

Google provides both a FREE and PRO version of the application. Now,
although most free versions of a software are cut down so much that
they are little more than toys...this is not the case with
SketchUp!...You can do almost everything in the free version as in the
pro...including scripting! Unfortunatly though SketchUp currently uses
Ruby(sorry to use profanity) language for scripting on both the free
and pro versions. IMHO...and you will probably agree... programming
with Ruby is neither fun or efficient. Don't get me wrong i am not
knocking Ruby. But i have tried to learn Rudy and i all i get is a
headache...C in my opinion is much easier than Ruby(but this may just
be me). So basically SketchUp is intended for beginners as well as
pros. And inline with SketchUp's philosophy I believe Python will make
the application more intuitive and more fun. Creating less overhead to
learn the API and at the same time expose new people to the greatness
of Python!

This is the slogan i took from there website:
===============================
"We designed SketchUp's simplified toolset, guided drawing system and
clean look-and-feel to help you concentrate on two things: getting
your work done as efficiently as possible, and having fun while you're
doing it."

Which is 100% correct, but the sort-coming here is the API. I really
think it would be in Google interest to include Python as a scripting
language. And before you say..."scripting is not THAT important".... i
say wrong, without the scripting API more advanced "modeler" types
like myself would not be as interested in SketchUP.

Why Python? you ask. Well Python has more docs, tutorials, and info
than Ruby, Python has a MUCH clearer syntax, and Python is easy to
learn for n00bs...or anybody. And Python promotes a better coding
style than Ruby. I have looked over many Ruby scripts and they are
just a mess. Since Ruby does not enforce ellipsis for a method call,
parsing code with your eyes can be very frustrating. Also Ruby offers
too many ways to do one thing, alowing two scripts that do the exact
same thing to look completely different. Some of the things I like
more about python:

-I think classes are much easier to write and understand. Python
keywords are a no brainer! When i first studied python the keywords
stuck in my head right away! No need to go back to the docs to refresh
my memory.
-print instead of puts
-input instead of gets
-elif instead of elsif
-None instead of nil --WTH is nil anyway?
-list comprehensions: [x for x in range(100) if x % 2 == 0]
even a n00b can see what that is doing .
-The dict and list objects could not be easier to use. And the
similarity for accessing list indexes, string indexes, and dict could
not be easier to remember.

Also something i find completely frustrating about Ruby is the end
statement, Why in the world, do we need such things in a high level
language? High level languages are suppost to take the burden off the
developer and put it on the machine(where it belongs). Python uses
indentation instead of the "end" keyword to denote a block. Which has
the effect of creating a good coding style from day one, and also
makes for easy reading of source code, something very important to a
n00b (i know i am preaching to the choir here;)

Credit where credit is do:
==================
You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)

Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
SketchUp, AND for Python.
Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
competition ;-).

Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.

Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
bad.
Thanks
 
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C

Chris Rebert

Hello fellow Python Advocates!
Help me promote Python to a larger audience.

An introduction to SketchUp:
====================
I don't know if you are familiar with "Google Sketchup". It is the
best 3d CAM program available.
said:
Credit where credit is do:
==================
You know, Guidio van Rossum really nailed it when he created this
language. He took the best of everything he saw that was good and left
out everything he saw was bad (i think only one other entity has done
his before long ago...see Book of Genesis ;)

Now if we could get Python into SketchUp this would be a win for
SketchUp, AND for Python.
Python would get more exposure, and SketchUP would be easier to use,
sticking to there policy above. And when people have a choice between
Python and Ruby... you and I both know who will win that
competition ;-).

Now before you say..."don't tell us, tell the SketchUp DEV TEAM". I
have hinted at adding Python as a second scripting API, but what needs
to happen is to get a list together of people that use SketchUp or
people who want use SketchUp, or people who just think it is a damn
good idea and submit it to the DEV TEAM.

Look forward to hearing from you! I am open to any suggestions good or
bad.

I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
currently employed by Google, right?

Cheers,
Chris
 
R

r

I don't really give a care about SketchUp, but just FYI, you are aware
that Guido van Rossum and some other prominent Pythonistas are
currently employed by Google, right?

Cheers,
Chris

Of course, but you are not suggesting that i bother Guido with this. I
am sure he is too busy.
 
R

r

Are you against promoting python?

To merely say... "Well Guido and some high level Python people work at
Google and if Python is not in SketchUp now it will never be"... is
pretty self defeating to me. Weather you like SketchUp or not doesn't
matter. This is a call for a grass roots movement to further the
incorporation of Python into a popular and useful app. I'm not asking
for people to support SketchUp here...I am asking people to support
Python. Of all Places in the world, there should be support here. I
hope at least you care about Python.

Sure this may blow under the rug but hey...doesn't hurt to try. My
call was a "testing the waters" to see if there if fact are any Python-
SketchUp fans here. Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.
-food for thought-
 
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T

Terry Reedy

r said:
Hello fellow Python Advocates!
Help me promote Python to a larger audience.

An introduction to SketchUp:
====================

There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
also. Must be an isolated dev group.
 
R

r

There is no need to puff up Python or put down Ruby to this audience.
Given how much Google uses Python as a core language, I am a bit shocked
that they would release a program with Ruby and not Python bindings
also.  Must be an isolated dev group.
thanks Terry,
I lament every day about it! :^)
If you read the complete post though you will see that i am not trying
to dog Ruby, only trying to say that Python is nicer to a n00b (IMHO).
And by doing so, allows a new user to do more advanced things quickly,
increasing usability of the application.
 
A

alex23

Are you against promoting python?

Maybe your a Ruby fan, i don't know, but that
would explain your quick disposal of the idea though.

Are you intending to come off so patronising? To angrily dismiss
someone who has been posting some solid help in this group for the
past three months doesn't do your position any favours. There's
advocacy and then there's rabid fanboyism....
-food for thought-

Here's something a little more substantial for you to consider: put up
or shut up. Create a thin layer that brokers Python requests through
to the Ruby interface for SketchUp. Gain support for this approach.
Prove how many people are interested in using the Python aspect. Show
you're not expecting someone else to bear all the effort. Do something
more constructive than post wishful fantasies and snide cutdowns to a
mailing list.

Stop proclaiming how great Python is and start developing solutions
that demonstrate it.
 
R

r

Are you intending to come off so patronising? To angrily dismiss
someone who has been posting some solid help in this group for the
past three months doesn't do your position any favours. There's
advocacy and then there's rabid fanboyism....


Here's something a little more substantial for you to consider: put up
or shut up. Create a thin layer that brokers Python requests through
to the Ruby interface for SketchUp. Gain support for this approach.
Prove how many people are interested in using the Python aspect. Show
you're not expecting someone else to bear all the effort. Do something
more constructive than post wishful fantasies and snide cutdowns to a
mailing list.

Stop proclaiming how great Python is and start developing solutions
that demonstrate it.
Thanks alex23 for you honest response,
Although i am no Pythonista by FAR, i will give my all to help this
idea come to be. I am not just posting ideas and expecting everyone
else pull the load. That being said, there is no way I could do this
on my own. I would need the help of smarter people than myself. Yes i
totally agree, this idea is hugely ambitious to say the least! All i
can say is no tree can bear fruit without first planting the seed. I
must be honest, i was not expecting this much resisstance to my idea,
but i did say that i welcomed all input. I did fail to mention in my
OP that this was a "testing of the waters", to see if anyone out there
shared the same feelings.
Thanks again.
 
T

Terry Reedy

r said:
thanks Terry,
If you read the complete post though

I did
you will see that i am not trying to dog Ruby,

You fooled me. But rather than discuss what you did write, here is what
I think you should have written that would be more effective.

-----------------------------
Google has released a program SketchUp in both free and pro editions.
It does ... and I think it is great. It nicely complements Blender, for
instance. see
sketchup.google.com <you forget to give url>

For me, however, it has one problem; the only scripting language now is
Ruby and I would far prefer to sript it in Python. Are there any Python
and Sketchup user who agree and who would help me persuade the sketchup
developers to add Python? Does anyone have any persuasive arguments to
suggest?
 
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R

r

I did


You fooled me.  But rather than discuss what you did write, here is what
I think you should have written that would be more effective.

-----------------------------
Google has released a program SketchUp in both free and pro editions.
It does ... and I think it is great.  It nicely complements Blender, for
instance.  see
sketchup.google.com <you forget to give url>

For me, however, it has one problem; the only scripting language now is
Ruby and I would far prefer to sript it in Python.  Are there any Python
and Sketchup user who agree and who would help me persuade the sketchup
developers to add Python?  Does anyone have any persuasive arguments to
suggest?
Thanks again Terry,
I will apologize for being too wordy, and my unintentional rough-ness
towards Ruby. Again i stress the fact that i am in no way dogging
Ruby. I am sure there are many places where Ruby out performs Python.
But IMHO i really believe that Python is easier to learn than Ruby(for
non-programmers). I quickly picked up on python and even C, but Ruby
still turns me off. (did i mention Ruby was the first language i
tried!) This is not ruby's fault, ruby may be geared more to a
proffessional programmer, which i am not. I just see that python is
perfect for scripting applications(from my point of veiw). I just
simply want to introduce others to the joy i get from using python.
And since SketchUp is for modelers NOT programmers, this may be just
what they need.
Thanks i respect everyones opinion here. Even Chris's opinion!
 
R

r

Thanks again Terry,
I will apologize for being too wordy, and my unintentional rough-ness
towards Ruby. Again i stress the fact that i am in no way dogging
Ruby. I am sure there are many places where Ruby out performs Python.
But IMHO i really believe that Python is easier to learn than Ruby(for
non-programmers). I quickly picked up on python and even C, but Ruby
still turns me off. (did i mention Ruby was the first language i
tried!) This is not ruby's fault, ruby may be geared more to a
proffessional programmer, which i am not. I just see that python is
perfect for scripting applications(from my point of veiw). I just
simply want to introduce others to the joy i get from using python.
And since SketchUp is for modelers NOT programmers, this may be just
what they need.
Thanks i respect everyones opinion here. Even Chris's opinion!

Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
votes?
 
A

alex23

Well... 3 for Ruby 1 for python. Not looking good so far. Any more
votes?

I don't see -any- of the responses in this thread "voting" for
anything other than a more civil approach to your request. If you're
seeing these in a "if you're not with me you're against me" light,
then you have far more serious concerns then the absence of a Python
API in SketchUp.

Incidentally, Google -acquired- SketchUp from an independent
development company, as they were looking for a simple-to-use
modelling tool to allow for rapid model inclusion with Google Earth.
AS @Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
 
R

r

I don't see -any- of the responses in this thread "voting" for
anything other than a more civil approach to your request. If you're
seeing these in a "if you're not with me you're against me" light,
then you have far more serious concerns then the absence of a Python
API in SketchUp.

Incidentally, Google -acquired- SketchUp from an independent
development company, as they were looking for a simple-to-use
modelling tool to allow for rapid model inclusion with Google Earth.
AS @Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.

I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
comp.lang.ruby. WOW! I'm hurt, not that no one agree's with my overly
ambitious idea, but at the lack of support for Python. What would the
BDFL say if he saw this post, sure you can call me crazy, sure you can
call me an idiot, but you cannot support Python! You OWE your
allegence to Python and the BDFL. I would be very disappointed.

I think i know why nobody wants to get on-board. All the regulars
can't have a n00b come in here and propose a grand Idea. Does it
bother you that i am so ambitious, so FOR the advancement of Python!
Why do you get so offended by the mention that python is better in
this way or that, than Ruby. Answer that if you are a man. Would you
like to see python in more applications? Why do you even use Python.
Do you feel you should give back or just take, take, take??? I have
shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
 
A

alex23

Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.

It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
attacks.

My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.
 
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R

r

Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.

It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
attacks.

My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.

Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.

[alex23]
@Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
[/alex23]

Why can't Google change the API now? They own it right? Why can't
there be 2 API's? A kinda 60 free love thing. And why are you SO
violently against it? Is this a sin?
 
R

r

Does it bother you that i am so ambitious[...] Answer that if
you are a man. [...] Do you feel you should give back or just
take, take, take??? I have shared my feelings, let's hear yours.
It bothers me that you seem to be off your medication and turning this
into a non-existent conspiracy amongst a lot of unjustified ad hominem
attacks.
My personal feeling is that you're a complete idiot who could've
achieved more actually working on the problem you perceive in
SketchUp's lack of a Python API in the time you've spent abusing
others for what you see as greed, arrogance and stupidity.

Did you even read my OP, I mean the whole thing... not just the title?
I am working on the problem, I am trying to garner support for a
Python intergration. Grass Roots kinda thing.

[alex23]
@Last Software were completely unrelated to Google when they first
developed SketchUp, it's hardly a surprise that they chose whatever
damn scripting API they wanted to.
[/alex23]

Why can't Google change the API now? They own it right? Why can't
there be 2 API's? A kinda 60 free love thing. And why are you SO
violently against it? Is this a sin?
Going with Terry's great advice i will now re-post my ideas on this
subject

Hello fellow Python enthusiust!
Google has released a program called SkectchUp in both a free and Pro
version.
http://sketchup.google.com/index.html

It is an architectural based 3D modeling application with support for
windows and Mac and has a large following.(i think it will work in
linux with WINE but full support is not there yet...this is also
something we could help change though). Which is a good complement to
Blender. I believe it would be great if SketchUp included a Python API
and i am looking for support in that direction. If anybody is
interested in helping me persuade the SketchUp DEV TEAM to add Python
i would love to hear your suggestions.
Again Thank you!
 
G

George Sakkis

I am still flabbergasted by the solid resistance to promoting Python.
Here of all places, NOT even one person(well Terry did kinda half
agree with me =), wants to support Python. I am completely perplexed.
I had to check and make sure this was comp.lang.python and NOT
comp.lang.ruby.

(more inane rambling snipped)

It's indeed comp.lang.python, a list which for whatever sociological
reason attracts mainly moderate posters rather than rabid fanboys and
script kiddies, unlike other communities you may be more familiar
with. Perhaps you chose the wrong group for your new adopted religion.
Why don't you go read a tutorial, write up some code, and come back
with any real questions next time.

George
 
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R

r

It's indeed comp.lang.python, a list which for whatever sociological
reason attracts mainly moderate posters rather than rabid fanboys and
script kiddies, unlike other communities you may be more familiar
with. Perhaps you chose the wrong group for your new adopted religion.
Why don't you go read a tutorial, write up some code, and come back
with any real questions next time.

George

WOW, thanks George for your honest reply.
 

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