HTML could use some Diagram Support for software enginering/the future ?

S

Skybuck Flying

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

Bye,
Skybuck.
 
J

Jonathan N. Little

Skybuck said:
Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))


You can will XHTML with SVG, but IE does not support it.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

The easy way to do graphic design is to use the GD2 extension to php
which can easily be activated on the server if the server is not
ancient. I have used this function to create elaborate images with up
to 24 buttons for image maps etc. The beauty of this method is that if
you get it working on the server, you do not have to worry about what
browser a viewer might be using. You can use functions such as
imagearc, imageellipse, imagefilledpolygon, and over 90 other
functions.
 
A

Adrienne Boswell

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of
Diagram Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes,
tables, tables in tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors,
etc, maybe even pseudo code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

Bye,
Skybuck.

HTML is a Markup language, used for marking up text. If you want to add
presentation, use CSS. What you are looking for is SVG.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

The easy way to do graphic design is to use the GD2 extension to php
which can easily be activated on the server if the server is not
ancient. I have used this function to create elaborate images with up
to 24 buttons for image maps etc. The beauty of this method is that if
you get it working on the server,  you do not have to worry about what
browser a viewer might be using. You can use functions such as
imagearc, imageellipse, imagefilledpolygon, and over 90 other
functions.

Two examples of images created with GD2 are given below. You can
compute the image on the server every time the page is called up, or
you can download the image to your computer in various formats as was
done here.

http://www.cwdjr.net/audio2/playersbutton2.png

http://www.cwdjr.net/audio4/imapaudioone.png

Also you can create images using the javascript math functions. Since
some of these calculations take considerable computing resources and
some computers may have javascript turned off, there often is an
advantage in capturing the generated image as a gif, jpg, or png and
using it rather than computing the image every time the page is
called. This method can be difficult unless you know javascript well
and can handle analytical geometry. Even if you know these subjects
well, the time to write and test the scripts sometimes is long. Three
old examples using javascript are given below, and you will be able to
right click and view the source code in addition to viewing the
generated image.

http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/tilelayer.html

http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/epicycloid_color_gradient.html

http://www.cwdjr.net/geometricDraw/pentagon_draw.html
 
C

C A Upsdell

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

A problem with this is that the diagrams you are speaking of tend to
need to be edited, often using specialized programs, especially during
the software design process: conventional web page editors are not up
to the task. What you want would probably only be viable if the tools
used to create the diagrams had options to export the diagrams to a form
suitable for web pages.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

It would/could be great if future versions of HTML get some kind of Diagram
Support, for drawing all kinds of diagrams, like boxes, tables, tables in
tables, boxes in boxes, arrows, lines, arcs, colors, etc, maybe even pseudo
code diagrams ;)

Maybe then we "software engineers/programmers" could work more jointly
together via the web more easily and better ! ;)

(Or express our idea's/algorithms/data structures better ;) :))

Sorry I am late, but I could not post to alt.html for about 2 days.

I fixed all the css errors but one which (a) has nothing to do with
the home page elements, and (b) might be some issue with the w3
validator. The "word-wrap" element is properly called in CSS3
according to this:

http://www.css3.com/css-word-wrap/

I put back the word wrap properties (four times) as removing made no
difference and it seems to be valid.

Regarding the html error, I'm not sure why it is invalid. Removing
that too did not make any difference. The "error"is for something
completely unrelated (the logo).

Even with validation, Safari is pushing off those login buttons way to
the right for a reason I cannot explain.

Your page seems to be changing, likely because you are working on it.
I got a version that had several validation errors. Some image tags
were not properly self-closed for xhtml, and this seemed to cause some
confusion with <a ...> and </a> when the img tag was between them.
Also you mentioned that the page worked as intended on IE. That alone
tells me the page is not being served as xhtml, since IE will not work
on xhtml that is properly served. The w3c validator will validate a
page as xhtml, if asked, no matter how it is served. However if you
select verboise output, the validator tells you that your page is
being served as ordinary html which uses text/html. To serve it as
xhtml, you have to associate something other than .html , such
as .xhtml, with the mime type application/xhtml+xml on the server.
Then if you serve the page properly as something.xhtml you will find
IE browsers will not work. To get them to work you have to use header
exchange or something else that will determine if the browser will
accept true xhtml served properly. Then the page is converted to html,
such as 4.01 strict for IE, for example. This can be done using some
rather complicated php in the header exchange. Since you are serving
the page as html, writing the code in xhtml serves no purpose unless
you intend to set up your server to serve true xhtml with the proper
mime type for it. And if you want IE browsers to see the page, you
will have to do something to serve html for them.

Since your page is only being served as html (validate using "more
options" and select verbose output - you find the mime type text/html
is being used), the page is only being parsed as html when you call
the page. However if you serve as true xhtml with mime type
application/xhtml+xml, the page will be parsed as xml. This varies a
bit for different browsers, but even a single error often will bring
up an error report rather than a view of the page. The xml parsers are
about as strict as a mother superior in a convent in the 1800s.

If you properly served your page as true xhtml, it is likely that no
browser would work as the page now stands. The likely outcome is that,
when the xml parser detects the first xml error, it would output an
xml error message rather than a view of the page.

The w3c validators have been known to make an error, but this usually
is corrected soon. In my case I usually find the error is mine. In
any case, you need to try to get rid of all html and css errors first.
Since your page is fairly long, I and likely some others do not have
the time to check the complete page in minute detail.
 
C

cwdjrxyz

Disregard my last post. It got posted in the wrong thread and has
nothing to do with this thread.
 
C

Cafetorium

Hello,

I think... I find HTML lacking for "software enginering" purposes.

When I design software for sonar systems, I don't choose to do it in
COBOL.
When I hang a picture, I don't choose a saw to put the nail in the
wall.
When I cut the grass in my garden, I don't choose to use nail-
clippers.

If HTML is lacking for "software enginering(sic)", then doesn't it
tell you that it isn't designed for the job?

As it happens, UML software such as Rational Rose will export to HTML
- it generates GIF images for the diagrams.
True you have to regenerate them rather than edit them, but it serves
a purpose.

Phil
 
S

Skybuck Flying

And how shall one edit the gifs once they are downloaded by others ? ;)

Bye,
Skybuck :)
 
D

Dr J R Stockton

In alt.comp.lang.borland-delphi message <[email protected]
september.org>, Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:36:50, C A Upsdell
On 2010-03-27 2:06, Skybuck Flying wrote:

Mere ignorance on his part - and on the part of respondents who have not
noticed that.

A problem with this is that the diagrams you are speaking of tend to
need to be edited, often using specialized programs, especially during
the software design process: conventional web page editors are not up
to the task. What you want would probably only be viable if the tools
used to create the diagrams had options to export the diagrams to a
form
suitable for web pages.



Draft standard HTML 5, and current versions of Firefox, Opera, Safari,
and Chrome have the <canvas> element.

One can draw diagrams on it with JavaScript code (in a PostScript-like
manner), one can get the result as a PNG string, one can load the PNG in
an IMG, and (manually) "Save As" that to disc.

Publish the code, and others can modify the figure; publish the saved
figure, and they can just admire it.

For a demo, see <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/$lag-pts.htm>; set
"Together" and some checkboxes, and press "Run".

Then see <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-grphx.htm>. For actual use,
take (but do not republish) a copy of the page and its include file.
Full usage direct from Web should not be permanently supported.

However, what browsers really need is

<script type="Text/pascal"> and <script type="Text/delphi">.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
473,770
Messages
2,569,585
Members
45,082
Latest member
KetonaraKetoACV

Latest Threads

Top