"i = i|0"

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Stefan Ram, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Indeed, I wanted to refer to LISP 1.5. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
    As Thomas Lahn has already pointed out in this thread[1]:

    | Of the ECMAScript implementations that I would consider “major”, there
    | are Netscape/Mozilla JavaScript, Google V8 JavaScript and KDE
    | JavaScript that contain the “JavaScript” name standalone. The original
    | JavaScript, of course, is Netscape JavaScript, with Mozilla JavaScript
    | as its open-source free-software successor (at least those parts that
    | are licensed under MPL 2.0 or later). “Internet Explorer JavaScript”
    | is just a Micro$~1 marketing scam; its real name is Microsoft JScript
    | 9+ (codename “Chakra”), supported by MSHTML 9+.

    I do not know if these parties have permission from Oracle to use the
    name "JavaScript" for their implementations, but obviously they use it.

    [1] <
    [xpost & fup2 comp.lang.javascript]
    Christoph Michael Becker, Jun 13, 2014
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  2. If you would really be interested in what Ecma International (*that* is the
    *real* name of the organization) did and does, you would visit their Web
    site and find out. Of course, it is easier for you to troll Usenet. FOAD.
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jun 13, 2014
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  3. That is an interesting definition that you have just made up. And it does
    not fully apply to JavaScript (or other ECMAScript implementations) either.
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jun 13, 2014
  4. Correct, in a way.
    How did you get that idea?
    Oracle Corp. *owns* the “JavaScript†trademark because they took over Sun
    Microsystems, Inc. which previously owned the “JavaScript†trademark because
    they previously already owned the “Java†trademark, and Sun owning the
    “JavaScript†trademark was one of the results of negotiations leading to a
    mutual agreement between Netscape Communications Corp. and Sun Microsystems,
    Inc. in December 1995 (CE).
    Me neither. But they do, and Oracle does not seem to mind; the same as Sun
    did not seem to mind when KDE e.V. (“KDE JavaScript (KJS)â€, 2000), Apple
    Inc. (“JavaScriptCoreâ€, based on KJS; 2003), the WebKit Open Source Project
    (ditto, 2005), Google Inc. (“V8 JavaScriptâ€, 2008), and even Microsoft Corp.
    (“Internet Explorer JavaScriptâ€, 2011) started using it¹.

    ¹ Opera has always been ambiguous; they have used both the “ECMAScriptâ€
    and the “JavaScript†name to refer to their implementation, which is
    why I am using the term “Opera ECMAScriptâ€. They have adopted V8
    last year, so what applies to Google now also applies to them.
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jun 13, 2014
  5. Stefan Ram

    Martin Shobe Guest

    Martin Shobe, Jun 13, 2014
  6. Stefan Ram

    John Harris Guest


    I'm afraid James has dropped into an argument that has been going on
    for several years. The question is how to refer to a variety of
    implementations, some of them trade-marked, in a variety of
    environments : browsers, web servers, etc.

    Some of us want a one-word generic name and think that lower case
    'javascript' is as good as any. Thomas rejects that idea absolutely,
    often with accompanying abuse.

    John Harris, Jun 13, 2014
  7. Stefan Ram

    Tim Streater Guest

    It *is* as good as any. And the accompanying abuse is, IMO, "usually"
    rather than merely "often". Suggested responses to PointyHead vary from
    neutral to returning the abuse with interest. One can, of course,
    ignore him, but that might confuse newcomers.

    Hmmm, perhaps a FAQ entry about his egregious behaviour might be in
    order, so newcomers can be quickly warned.
    Tim Streater, Jun 13, 2014
  8. Am 13.06.2014 00:11, schrieb Stephen Sprunk:
    No, not at all. ECMA is not dependent on Microsoft or Intel. To give you
    a brief idea what ECMA is: It is approximately for Europe what ANSI is
    for America: A European standardization organization. ANSI is part of
    ISO (same as DIN in Germany), though ECMA is independent of the ISO
    family of organizations. It would probably be closer to say ECMA is
    something like ITU (telecommunications, former CCITT) for Europe.
    Similar to ISO and ITU, and IEC, ECMA is hosted in Geneva.

    So long,
    Thomas Richter, Jun 13, 2014
  9. That much is true.
    The name is Ecma International for a reason.

    First research, then post.

    And stop cross-posting.
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jun 13, 2014
  10. Stefan Ram

    Tim Streater Guest

    AIUI, it stands for European Computer Manufacturers Association.
    Tim Streater, Jun 13, 2014
  11. Nothing's easier than to throw initials at people and make out that they are ignorant.

    All it means is that not everyone is part of the particular sub-culture which uses the
    jargon. It says very little about their understanding of the subject at hand.
    Malcolm McLean, Jun 13, 2014
  12. Stefan Ram

    Kaz Kylheku Guest

    Ah, you would think so, but these wankers were jealous of how ISO
    is not supposed to be an acronym but just "eye so", and actually
    stands for "International Organization for Standardization" or something like

    So they renamed themselves to Ecma, which is no longer an acronym, but just "ek

    But "ISO" is actaully clever because it corresponds to the "iso-" Greek
    prefix, and standardization ensures "sameness" in some sense.

    Whereas Ecma just reminds the reader of "eczema".
    Kaz Kylheku, Jun 13, 2014
  13. Stefan Ram

    Stefan Ram Guest

    »The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from.«
    Andrew Stuart Tanenbaum

    »ISO/IEC 16262:2011 defines the ECMAScript scripting language.«
    International Organization for Standardization
    Stefan Ram, Jun 14, 2014
  14. [F'up2 comp.lang.javascript]

    Stefan Ram wrote in comp.lang.c and comp.lang.javascript:
    ISO/IEC 16262:2011 is just the ISO/IEC version of ECMA-262-5.1 [1], which is
    the current Edition that is implemented by current versions of script
    engines. Some engines also implement features specified in the upcoming
    ECMA-262-6. [2][3] (This is not peculiar. ISO/IEC 15445:2000(E) is the
    ISO/IEC version of HTML 4.0. Current Web browsers implement HTML5. There
    are many C compilers, but only one ANSI/ISO C.)

    Usenet is organized into groups of topics. Please stop crossposting to
    where it is off-topic. Please set Followup-To (F'up2) to where it is
    on-topic. Please update the Subject header field as shown if the subject of
    discussion changes.

    [1] <http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php>
    [2] <http://wiki.ecmascript.org/doku.php?id=harmony:specification_drafts>
    [3] <https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference#Keyed_collections>
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn, Jun 15, 2014
  15. Help.
    The only real response to a alphabet soup of standards is to be very conservative, alternatively
    target only one particular browser, and hope that things eventually settle down.
    Malcolm McLean, Jun 15, 2014
  16. LBJ took the IRT down to 4th St. USA...

    BTW, you'll never get anywhere trying to have a conversation with The
    Pointed One.
    Kenny McCormack, Jun 15, 2014
  17. Stefan Ram

    BGB Guest

    yeah, this is part of why I wasn't posting anywhere cross-posted to
    c.l.js, just didn't really want to deal with him...

    like, there is more to life than pedantics and pet peeves.

    though, IMHO, JS is one of those languages that makes me happy I mostly
    write code in C.

    actually, similar sort of goes for Java as well, but for different
    reasons, and I would generally take having to develop any non-trivial
    code in Java over taking JS or ES.

    but, it is all that is offered in browsers, and my script-language for
    my projects is loosely ES-based (though now mostly statically-typed and
    class/instance), so meh, whatever sometimes...

    but, targeting browsers mostly means either dealing with JS, or some of
    the arbitrary limitations of Emscripten (no dynamic linking, ...), so
    part of where my own (newer) C-compiler effort was coming from: taking a
    different approach, and generally compiling bytecode to JS on the client
    (the VM is itself compiled to HTML5/JS, currently using Emscripten).

    well, among other side-goals (like, having a hopefully less
    annoying/problematic alternative to the Android NDK), ...

    mostly this would be (as-is), for my own uses.
    BGB, Jun 15, 2014
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