JPG or PNG?

[Leif K-Brooks]

SVG has transparency. I was playing with it earlier.
A SVG file can be far, far smaller than GIF or PNG.

I can't name a single web browser with built-in SVG support.

 

[The Doormouse]

Download it and convert it to JPEG. Notice how much smaller the PNG was?

It came up under the Quicktime plugin in my browser. Yikes. I could not
download it. However, that particular image would be tiny as a GIF, too. Or
SVG.

Why would I use JPG on a two color image? GIF would be the format to use.
Or SVG.

The Doormouse

 

[The Doormouse]

SVG has even less support than PNG!

Yes, that's true. Yet it is superior for line art.

The Doormouse

 

[The Doormouse]

I can't name a single web browser with built-in SVG support.

That is true. My main browsers are IE and Firefox. Both require plugins for
SVG, and arguably, Firefox is less than SVG-friendly.

The Doormouse

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

I have SVG and GIF for line drawings.
SVG files can be MUCH smaller than PNG.

And can't hold drawings you scanned from paper (without a lot of work).
And have virtually no browser support.

GIF can be about the same size.

PNGs are generally smaller if you know how to do the compression right.
And you can have more colors, alpha transparency, etc.

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

Why would I use JPG on a two color image? GIF would be the format to use.
Or SVG.

Good question. Maybe you can explain why you said that JPEG should be
used instead of PNG, presumably for line drawings.

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

Yes, that's true. Yet it is superior for line art.

Agreed, for the most part. But I thought you cared about browser support?

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

That is true. My main browsers are IE and Firefox. Both require plugins for
SVG, and arguably, Firefox is less than SVG-friendly.

FWIW, Mozilla (and Firefox, IIRC) have experimental SVG support in the
source code which isn't enabled in official builds. I think there's
unofficial builds with SVG enabled floating around somewhere.

 

[Nik Coughlin]

I would need to rely on clever scripting to get a graphic to
function? How much coding are we talking about to duplicate the
functionality that I can get other ways?

The Doormouse

HTML and CSS:

http://www.nrkn.com/alpha/

 

[Sam Hughes]

Apples and Oranges.

I have SVG and GIF for line drawings.
SVG files can be MUCH smaller than PNG.
GIF can be about the same size.

Unless the data is random, GIFs will almost always be rather larger. You
probably aren't saving the PNG image to near optimal compression. For
instance, one PNG image which I saved with Irfanview or The GIMP on setting
"9" was 27 kilobytes long. After running PNGOUT on the file, it was 13
kilobytes long.

So, PNG is "extra". Unneeded. Superfluous.

In a theoretical sense. When SVG gets browser support off the ground, PNG
will be superfluous in many current uses. However, not all PNG images are
merely "line drawings."

 

[Sam Hughes]

Take a look at this tiny little PNG file:

http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/tiny-little.png (401 bytes)

I got that PNG file down to 365 bytes. When saved as a GIF, I got it down
to 963.

 

[WebcastMaker]

I got that PNG file down to 365 bytes. When saved as a GIF, I got it down
to 963.

I will concede the browser compatibility issue, but since Flash can not
load it dynamically it is still pretty useless to me. (yea,yea, yea,
insert your favorite I hate flash statement here)

 

[The Doormouse]

Good question. Maybe you can explain why you said that JPEG should be
used instead of PNG, presumably for line drawings.

I never said that JPG should be used for line drawings. Both you and
another poster made that logical leap.

The Doormouse

 

[The Doormouse]

Agreed, for the most part. But I thought you cared about browser support?

I do ... so I avoid SVG by ITSELF and PNG altogether ...

The Doormouse

 

[The Doormouse]

I think there's
unofficial builds with SVG enabled floating around somewhere.

Yes, it's still a mess. Support is still spotty. ARGH!

The Doormouse

 

[The Doormouse]

http://www.nrkn.com/alpha/

Oh. Thanks.
that's way too much workaround.

Fascinating, though.

The Doormouse

 

[Sam Hughes]

I will concede the browser compatibility issue, but since Flash can
not load it dynamically it is still pretty useless to me. (yea,yea,
yea, insert your favorite I hate flash statement here)

No, I like Flash. It depends on how you use it. I'd hate background
images too, if everybody used background images that made reading
impossible.

Without Flash, my favorite source of entertainment would not be possible.
How can you hate it then?

 

[Shailesh Humbad]

Yes, it's still a mess. Support is still spotty. ARGH!

The Doormouse

Yeah, the rendering is still inefficient, i.e. no double-buffering or
hardware blitting going on. The situation might not change anytime
soon, if comparison can be made to VRML support in browsers.

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

I do ... so I avoid SVG by ITSELF and PNG altogether ...

If you're avoiding SVG by itself, you need to output to a raster image
format. Which means using GIF or PNG, or JPEG if you're insane. And that
brings us back to the original debate.

 

[Leif K-Brooks]

I never said that JPG should be used for line drawings. Both you and
another poster made that logical leap.

You said that JPEG should always be used over PNG. Mind explaining how
that can not include line drawings?