Learning C with Older books ?.

J

Jhon smith

Hi all,Just wondering are there any problems with learning c from older
books,as I have picked up some from 1988,1994,1997,1998.
By using books of this age(Im on a tight budget)am I going to missout on
anything in the langauge or has C remaind similar.
I intend to use Dev-C++ on the windows platform.
If any one feels theres anything I should be aware of,please help me out,I
feel a bit lost with all thats out there regarding this language.
Many thanks.
 
S

slurper

Jhon said:
Hi all,Just wondering are there any problems with learning c from older
books,as I have picked up some from 1988,1994,1997,1998.

certainly not, one of the best books is from the designer of c (Kernighan
and Ritchie) and that's an old book (mine is from 1990, the first edition
was from 1970 or so)
 
H

Hans-Bernhard Broeker

[F'up2 cut down --- should have been done by OP!]

In comp.lang.c.moderated Jhon smith said:
Hi all,Just wondering are there any problems with learning c from
older books,as I have picked up some from 1988,1994,1997,1998.

Not really. You'll be missing out on the changes introduced by the
C99 standard, but that's not of very high practical relevance yet, and
can relatively easily be fixed up later. Stay away from any books
older than roughly 1990 though --- you don't want to learn
pre-standard C.
 
B

B. v Ingen Schenau

Jhon said:
Hi all,Just wondering are there any problems with learning c from
older books,as I have picked up some from 1988,1994,1997,1998.
By using books of this age(Im on a tight budget)am I going to missout
on anything in the langauge or has C remaind similar.

The book from 1988 might be a bit out-dated, unless it is a very
high-quality book, like the second edition of "The C Programming
Language".
The other books will do fine date-wise, but be warned that there are a
lot of bad books in circulation, regardless of when they were printed.
If you want to know if your books are any good, check if you can find a
review for them at http://www.accu.org/ or ask us (please tell us the
title, author(s) _and_ version of each book).

Bart v Ingen Schenau
 
J

Jeroen Wenting

The core language has remained the same more or less.
Of course C++ was introduced which added a lot and changed things around as
well but for pure C that's not relevant.

There have also been some libraries added maybe which you will not learn
about but that's the extend of your potential shortcomings.

As a book you should certainly get: The C programming language by Kernighan
and Ritchie, creators of C.
 
R

Ron House

Jhon said:
Hi all,Just wondering are there any problems with learning c from older
books,as I have picked up some from 1988,1994,1997,1998.
By using books of this age(Im on a tight budget)am I going to missout on
anything in the langauge or has C remaind similar.
I intend to use Dev-C++ on the windows platform.
If any one feels theres anything I should be aware of,please help me out,I
feel a bit lost with all thats out there regarding this language.
Many thanks.

There are some changes in the more recent C, but as long as your book
describes some version of ANSI/ISO C, it will be reasonably close. Older
(K&R) C books are likely to be more misleading. Check if it mentions
ANSI or ISO at the front of the book.
 
S

Stuart Gerchick

Jeroen Wenting said:
The core language has remained the same more or less.
Of course C++ was introduced which added a lot and changed things around as
well but for pure C that's not relevant.

There have also been some libraries added maybe which you will not learn
about but that's the extend of your potential shortcomings.

As a book you should certainly get: The C programming language by Kernighan
and Ritchie, creators of C.

As long as the book covers standard ANSI C you are fine. Check the
cover or the intro for that. The K&R ANSI C version is a good book to
use.
 
J

Jhon smith

Thanks for all,the help,I will look through the book review section on
ACCU,Thanks for that one.
 
J

Jhon smith

HI all again,I just thought I give you a list of the books I have for you to
say yay or nay to as far as good learning tools.

I don`t know if it`s relevent,but I have a little machine code and assembler
experence from the old c64 days,I never really used basic,and have no real
experence of other languages,I don`t like being kept to far removed from the
machine,thats what i liked about the old MC/assem all those bit/byte opps.

I have looked at things like Pure basic,as as a start in PC programming,but
I like somthing about C,I hate the idea of great big fat programs,when it`s
not needed,however I am finding it a daunting task,as If I look on the net I
see reference to things,libarys,headers,API`s and many other things,Yet no
firm explanation of what is C,and what is purley added buy others,What is
needed to learn and what is at least for the time being,not nessesary.

With the `Basics` it seems much more defined,Learn the basic your
using,learn windows/hardware your using it on,Just with C I know where to
start,I just don`t know Which direction to go and howfar in that direction
to go.

My goal really is to learn C,then if Im upto it,more about using C on the PC
with MS windows(ie windows,graphics,sound),If I ever get that far,and
possibly C++.

The other BIG problem is that I am pretty damn thick,but I really would be
happy if all I can learn to do is simple apps,such a Phone book,with
input/output,disk loading/saving,sorting and such,But I don`t want to have a
basic language do it for me with a few commands,where`s the fun and thinking
in that!.

Any way enough ranting,Here`s my books.

C The complete reference---Herbert schildt first edition,1987
Simple C,Ian sinclair ---1988
Absolute beginners Guide to C,Greg Perry,second edition---1994
C++ Primer plus,Stephan prata,second edition---1995
Learning to program in C,N kantaris---Reprinted 1997
C/C++ Programmers bible Kris jamsa,Lars klander,first edition,---1998

Thanks again.
 
J

Jonathan Leffler

Jhon said:
HI all again,I just thought I give you a list of the books I have for you to
say yay or nay to as far as good learning tools.
C The complete reference---Herbert schildt first edition,1987

Nay! See http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html
Simple C,Ian sinclair ---1988
Absolute beginners Guide to C,Greg Perry,second edition---1994
C++ Primer plus,Stephan prata,second edition---1995
Learning to program in C,N kantaris---Reprinted 1997
C/C++ Programmers bible Kris jamsa,Lars klander,first edition,---1998

I don't remember these - check the ACCU book reviews at

http://www.accu.org/bookreviews/public/index.htm

Simple C isn't there.
Absolute Beginners Guide isn't there.
C++ Primer Plus 4th Edn is reviewed.
Learning to Program in C is reviewed.
C/C++ Programmer's Bible isn't there.

If you already program competently, then K&R is still very good.
 
J

Joona I Palaste

Jhon smith <[email protected]> scribbled the following
Any way enough ranting,Here`s my books.
C The complete reference---Herbert schildt first edition,1987

You should consider dropping this book. Herbert Schildt is commonly
regarded as a bad author. His C books contain many mistakes.
Simple C,Ian sinclair ---1988
Absolute beginners Guide to C,Greg Perry,second edition---1994
C++ Primer plus,Stephan prata,second edition---1995
Learning to program in C,N kantaris---Reprinted 1997
C/C++ Programmers bible Kris jamsa,Lars klander,first edition,---1998
 
M

mmmm

HI,
You should!!! buy the "C programming language" from Kernighan and Ritchie.
It's a must for everyone! An excellent book!
 
H

Herbert Rosenau

C The complete reference---Herbert schildt first edition,1987

Crap, clearly crap! One half, the standard itself is outated. The
other half is crap.
Schildt is unable to read and understund what is clearly written - so
his interpretation of the standard is crappy and useless.

I've no meaning to the other books - except: when a book is titled
"....C++..." it has nothing to do with C, it speaks about a completely
other language.

Get the C bible:
The C Programming Language, Second Edition
by Brian W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.
Prentice Hall, Inc., 1988.
ISBN 0-13-110362-8 (paperback), 0-13-110370-9 (hardback).

In ideal you would get 3 books:
1. The book itself is known as C bible.
2. a book containing a collection of homeworks. They get pointed from
1)
when the books speaks about that theme. So you can work through the
book 1)
learn anything and use this book to train what you've learned.
3. a book containing all the solutions to 2). This book is good to
check your
personal results aginst the one the authors thinks you should
gotten.
As C is somewhat flexible you may still find another solution. But
it
would help to check aginst the obnes here anyway because you may
see
something you would not without. True learning means: use book 1)
to study, book 2) to get first practice about the chapter you're
studying
and thereafter book 3) to check your esults. Means hold 3) really
close until
youve done really what 2) asks - chapter for chapter.

Even as the C bible is NOT designed to be a tutotial in programming it
is a tutorial in programming C for anybody who had learned the
principes of programming in some way already. So with real programming
experience in e.g. assembly, COBOL, BASIC.... you should have no
problem to understund it. It is in some aspects outdated but anyway
good enough to understund what C is and how to use it.

ISO/IEC 9899:1999 is the current C standard. This is NOT a tutorial
but the base for programming in C of this century. It may be hard to
understund and ununderstandable for beginners it is a good reference
to learn how to program in C get your program independant of the
current used hardware and OS but easy portable to any other.

You should work through the standard AFTER you have learned the basics
as described in the C bible. Not any aspect will be really of interest
as normal programmer as the standard is designed to give all rules to
write a current C compiler - but when you knows about the requirements
to an C compiler you would have more understunding on how write
programs in C as the C compiler will dictate what is good, right and
functional.
 
S

Simon Richard Clarkstone

Jhon said:
HI all again,I just thought I give you a list of the books I have for you to
say yay or nay to as far as good learning tools.
I have looked at things like Pure basic,as as a start in PC programming,but
I like somthing about C,I hate the idea of great big fat programs,when it`s
not needed,however I am finding it a daunting task,as If I look on the net I
see reference to things,libarys,headers,API`s and many other things,Yet no
firm explanation of what is C,and what is purley added buy others,What is
needed to learn and what is at least for the time being,not nessesary.
K&R, especially, start with a demonstration of just how simple C can be:
the "Hello, world!" program. The standard library is there to allow you
to write console apps easily and *portably*. C programs *can* be very
simple.
Any way enough ranting,Here`s my books.

C The complete reference---Herbert schildt first edition,1987
Not thought to be too good by some. See:
<http://herd.plethora.net/~seebs/c/c_tcr.html>
Simple C,Ian sinclair ---1988
This and the previous are also most-likely out of date; the first real
ANSI C was the C89 standard, from 1989.
Absolute beginners Guide to C,Greg Perry,second edition---1994
C++ Primer plus,Stephan prata,second edition---1995
Learning to program in C,N kantaris---Reprinted 1997
C/C++ Programmers bible Kris jamsa,Lars klander,first edition,---1998
Don't mix C with C++. I recommend learning C first, then C++. They
generally use different I/O libraries, and have a different style, in
addition to the features in C that aren't in C++, as well as the converse.

BTW, don't top-post:
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
 
F

Francis Glassborow

I believe we recently weeded out reviews of very old books.
Simple C isn't there.
I seem to remember that I was not impressed, it is also very old and
pre-ANSI C.
Absolute Beginners Guide isn't there.

Greg Perry does not have a good track record with me and read Yechiel
Kimchi's review of 'C by Example' to see that I am far from being alone
in that view.
C++ Primer Plus 4th Edn is reviewed.
Learning to Program in C is reviewed.
C/C++ Programmer's Bible isn't there.
The lead author of that book is also responsible for publishing it
(indirectly). The unfortunate result is that it has lacked the benefit
of an independent editor. Jamsa is definitely among those who know
considerably less than they think they do.
 
F

Francis Glassborow

mmmm <[email protected]> said:
HI,
You should!!! buy the "C programming language" from Kernighan and Ritchie.
It's a must for everyone! An excellent book!

However be aware that it makes many implicit assumptions about the
programming environment. Quite a few early implementations of C were
based on this book with the result that necessary tool support (such as
lint) was unknown to many who learnt C by combining this book with a
compiler.

If you are already familiar with a Unix type development environment K&R
is excellent. If you are not, or are not using such an environment I am
less certain. There is a wealth of bad, dangerous C code (full of
undefined behaviour) written by people who relied on this book as their
sole source of information on programming (in C).
 
F

Francis Glassborow

Herbert Rosenau said:
Get the C bible:

No it is normally called K&R, and calling it the C bible leads to
confusion with books that actually have that title.
 
K

Keith Thompson

Herbert Rosenau said:
Crap, clearly crap! One half, the standard itself is outated. The
other half is crap. Schildt is unable to read and understund what
is clearly written - so his interpretation of the standard is crappy
and useless.

You're thinking of Schildt's _The Annotated ANSI C Standard_, which
has a copy of the C90 standard on the left-hand pages and Schildt's
annotations on the facing pages. At one time, it was the cheapest way
to get a copy of (most of) the C90 standard, but the annotations are,
as you say, crap. Clive Feather reviews it at
<http://www.lysator.liu.se/c/schildt.html>.

_C: The Complete Reference_ is a different book by the same author. I
haven't read it, but according to Francis Glassborow's review at
<http://www.accu.org/bookreviews/public/reviews/c/c002173.htm>, it's
not as bad as _The Annotated ANSI C Standard_ (which is just about the
weakest possible praise).
 
R

Randy Howard

Jhon smith <[email protected]> scribbled the following



You should consider dropping this book. Herbert Schildt is commonly
regarded as a bad author. His C books contain many mistakes.

I'd say you could go farther and say that not only is he a horrible
author or technical books, the scope of his abysmal mistakes extend
beyond just his books on C. In general, if his name is on the cover,
it's not worth even thumbing through, much less purchasing.
 
D

Douglas A. Gwyn

Francis said:
If you are already familiar with a Unix type development environment K&R
is excellent. If you are not, or are not using such an environment I am
less certain. There is a wealth of bad, dangerous C code (full of
undefined behaviour) written by people who relied on this book as their
sole source of information on programming (in C).

I don't think that is much of a problem with the 2nd edition
(the "ANSI C" one). Your point that there is more to
software development than is explained in this one book is
valid, but then there doesn't seem to be *any* single book
that covers it all. Supplemental reading is therefore going
to be necessary, and at least K&R2 gives a reasonable picture
of the C language itself.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
473,744
Messages
2,569,484
Members
44,904
Latest member
HealthyVisionsCBDPrice

Latest Threads

Top