MS_POSITIONING="flowlayout"

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

This is my position. If you are a customer who isn't running an up-level
browser, I am not interested in your business.

Eep. So do you have a big message on your page, "ALL PEOPLE WHO CAN'T
AFFORD THE LATEST TECHNOLOGY, AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM
VISUAL IMPAIRMENT - GO AWAY!"

I can't imagine that is good for the bottom line.

--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

Never did say that.

I believe you said exactly this, no? To quote:

"My take is that the web has evolved from simple web submission forms
to complex applications that run in a browser - functionally equivalent
to a windows application in a browser. ****For that type of
programming, gridlayout is a must. For all other options, use gridlayout
(that's not a typo either).****"


--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

****For that type of

programming, gridlayout is a must. For all other options, use gridlayout
(that's not a typo either).****"

I guess you couldn't see the humor there either. If you had stopped to
consider the statement within the context of what i said, it would have been
clear that there was humor involved. Permit me to re-iterate my point.
Both Grid and Flow are valid. ASP and HTML programmers disparage Grid while
touting flow. That's wrong on all accounts. Use the best tool for the job.
Would you disagree with that?

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

You don't build for a range, you build for a specific resolution.

No. You build for a range, and you test for a range otherwise you force your
users to run the app for the specific setting.
You can't force me to run an app in 800x600 just because that was the only
resolution you wrote your app to handle.
I'm sure that isn't you argument. It absolutely can't be.

us more UI choices, we no longer need to have the user meet us, we can
meet the user.

You just said you don't build apps for resolution ranges. You build for a
specific resolution so exactly which user are you meeting?

What?!! You've only been doing web application work for a few days?!!!

I don't see why you should bother call my expertise into question. It has no
relevance here.
If i make a point, you cannot disregard it based on whether i am a student
or
20 year veteran. Instead, discredit it based on the content of the matter
and how i frame the argument.
Name calling gets you no where in here.
But it does show what position you are arguing from.

This has nothing to do with our conversation.

sure it does. Customers drive business. That's the bottom line.

Who says that this will happen using FlowLayout mode?! A control wrapping
to the next line down is not a Grid vs. Flow issue at all. It's a matter
of knowing how to code HTML properly.

Are you serious? You are suggesting that I start coding in HTML to fix this
issue?
Take a moment to drop two controls on a webform, alternate the layouts and
resize
the browser. I guess you can hide behind the fact that everything boils down
to HTML in a browser but you would be missing the whole point of the
argument.

Again, this is irrelevant since it doesn't happen in FlowLayout mode
either.

What? You are using humor right?

Alvin, it is clear to me that you have very limited knowledge of HTML and
very limited experience in correctly testing the UI layer of a web
application.

Name calling? You know i avoid these arguments because they are without
merit.
Please learn that even a student or a carpenter can make a point in a public
forum and you should have the decency to only discredit based on the content
of the argument.
I could very easily claim that I am a 20 year veteran, a student or a
TRAINER who owns his own school!. I am neither by the way (but how can you
tell?)
I get sick to my stomach when people like you think that who you are is
important when framing an argument.
I am expecting an apology by the way, for the name calling.

BUT FlowLayout will get you there faster and with less problems along the
way.

you haven't supported that position thus far with anything but name calling.

with GridLayout then "more power to you", but you may want to listen to
the advice of those who have been doing this for a decade or so

That's what its about? You need recognition for your years of development
experience?
I don't. I learn from students and veterans alike. The source of the
knowledge is not important to me.
But the knowledge is.

Anyway, it is clear you have degenerated an otherwise spirited discussion
into name calling. And that's turning me off.
You need to apologize and learn to keep it clean. You could end up working
for me someday.

 

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

Permit me to re-iterate my point.

Both Grid and Flow are valid. ASP and HTML programmers disparage Grid while
touting flow. That's wrong on all accounts. Use the best tool for the job.
Would you disagree with that?

I wouldn't disagree with that, no, but let's look at your first reply in
this post:

Rubbish! Who told you so?

(emphasis mine)

If Flow layout has its place, as you agree, then why would you have the
foresight to tell him "rubish" when our original poster noted that flow
layout would be best for his project? (Assuming you knew nothing about
his project, which I take is the case, unless you personally know the
original poster or have communicated with him about this project
beforehand.)

In any event, this whole thread basically boiled down to a flamewar. I
doubt we'll be able to influence one another's firm beliefs. My belief
is aligned with Scott M.'s, that FlowLayout is best and, where absolute
positioning is needed, it can be employed. Personally I think having
GridLayout be the default was a mistake on MS's part, since (in my
experience) it causes desktop application developers more troubles than
it's worth, and typically they do not even know about FlowLayout!

--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Scott M.]

No. You build for a range, and you test for a range otherwise you force
your users to run the app for the specific setting.
You can't force me to run an app in 800x600 just because that was the only
resolution you wrote your app to handle.

I absolutly can and its done everyday. Go to abc.com, cbs.com, nbc.com or
virtually any other major web site. It was built for 800 x 600 regardless
of what your particular setting is. I'll go one step further than that,
look at the source code for all these sites and search the code for <TABLE>.
You'll find that this is how they are all built, not by absolutly
positioning everything.

I'm sure that isn't you argument. It absolutely can't be.

It can be if you know something about developing a web UI. Go to cnn.com or
msnbc.com or any other major web site with your screen resolution set at 800
x 600 and you'll see that the UI was built specifically for that setting.
Change your setting to 1024 x 768 and you'll see that the page stays the
same but you now have extra white space on the right edge. The site wasn't
built for a range of resolutions, it was built for a specific resolution.
This is my point. It is just obvious that you don't have any experience
with this if you don't see that.

You just said you don't build apps for resolution ranges. You build for a
specific resolution so exactly which user are you meeting?

The one that is the target of my application OR (as mentioned above) I can
build one UI that dynamicly adjusts for any resolution.

I don't see why you should bother call my expertise into question. It has
no relevance here.
If i make a point, you cannot disregard it based on whether i am a student
or
20 year veteran. Instead, discredit it based on the content of the matter
and how i frame the argument.

I have done that. I've given you point by point descriptions of why Grid is
bad and Flow is good, but you've turned a deaf ear on all of the experience
and expertise of those who have struggled with this issue before you.
You've just responded with one basic point that says that you've built
applications that are supposed to look like a Windows application. You
haven't addressed the facts about the use of that application..That's just
ignorance.

Name calling gets you no where in here.
But it does show what position you are arguing from.

I am not trying to get anywhere "in here" and I never called you any names.
I said you are inexperienced and by your own admission, this is a fact, not
an insult. I said that your argument was hogwash. That's also not name
calling. It is a statment about your lack of knowledge (another fact) in
this area. I am trying to give you some very good advice based on years
actual experiences using both tecniques that we have discussed. I've been
clear as to what the issues are and you've already conceded that I'm right,
but then dismissed these issues and proclaimed that you were right
anyway....That tells me that you are stubborn and aren't really interested
in developing your skills.

sure it does. Customers drive business. That's the bottom line.

LOL. And applications that don't work for the clients of those customers
generally don't get the developers of those applications more work. It IS
irrelevant what your app does or who you are building it for. If you are
building web pages, then they need to render in a browser on a monitor.
What's relevant is that we can't control what browser that will be and what
resolution that will be, so we build applications that ensure that they will
render the SAME in all environments. Now read this next part
carefully...GridLayout is not capable of doing that. It's not and that is a
fact. If you dispute this point, then you really don't have any idea of how
web UI rendering works.

Are you serious? You are suggesting that I start coding in HTML to fix
this issue?

Are YOU serious? Do you not realize that the basis for EVERY web page is
HTML? Do you really believe that you can be a good web developer and not
know or work with HTML?

Take a moment to drop two controls on a webform, alternate the layouts and
resize
the browser. I guess you can hide behind the fact that everything boils
down
to HTML in a browser but you would be missing the whole point of the
argument.

I have no idea what point you are even trying to make with your exercise
here. If you are trying to take us back to your "controls will wrap when
the browser is resized" point from earlier, then I'll repeat what I said
earlier. This is not a layout issue it is a fundamental issue of knowing
how to write good HTML. You call this "hiding" behind the FACT that
everything boils down to HTML. And, you say that this is missing the point,
but this is the EXACT point.

What? You are using humor right?

No, I'm talking about something that I guess you haven't learned how to
control in HTML.

Name calling? You know i avoid these arguments because they are without
merit.

What name did I call you? No, I stated (by your own admission) a FACT. You
have limited experience with the technologies you are trying to educate us
on.

Please learn that even a student or a carpenter can make a point in a
public forum and you should have the decency to only discredit based on
the content of the argument.

You should have the presence of mind to be able to separate an insult from a
fact that you may not like to hear. Having little experience in an area is
not an insult or a name. You are also posting in a public forum that is
frequented mostly by folks that have much more experise and experience in
this area as you. What do you expect someone to tell you when they have the
knowledge and experience in this matter and they know you are mistaken? And
what would you make of someone who adamantly defends a position widely known
to be incorrect by a person with little experience in that area? Most
people would respond with someting like "I haven't encountered the problems
you are talking about yet, but thanks for the heads up." Instead, you've
basically just told us that we don't have a clue as to what we are talking
about, when clealy by your statements you show us that you are the one who
doesn't know the whole picture.

I could very easily claim that I am a 20 year veteran, a student or a
TRAINER who owns his own school!. I am neither by the way (but how can you
tell?)

1. You told us so.
2. You make comments about what FlowLayout does that are incorrect.
3. You make comments about what GridLayout does that are incorrect.
4. You make comments that tell us that you aren't fully versed in HTML and
its importance.
5. You make comments that tell us that you don't fully understand the
ramifications of screen resolution.

I get sick to my stomach when people like you think that who you are is
important when framing an argument.
I am expecting an apology by the way, for the name calling.

And as soon as I call you one, I'll give you one. Seriously Alvin, go back
and read what's been written here with an objective mind and you'll see that
you were not called names. You'll see that you told us you are
inexperienced and to be called that is not an insult. But to defend a
position you don't fully have knowledge of is just plain willfull ignorance.
That's a fact.

you haven't supported that position thus far with anything but name
calling.

That's what its about? You need recognition for your years of development
experience?

It's clear that you didn't even read any of my comments about the merits of
Grid vs. Flow. It's also obvious, you'd rather fight than learn.

I don't. I learn from students and veterans alike. The source of the
knowledge is not important to me.
But the knowledge is.

You've proven here that that is not true.

Anyway, it is clear you have degenerated an otherwise spirited discussion
into name calling. And that's turning me off.
You need to apologize and learn to keep it clean. You could end up working
for me someday.

Hardly, since you can't advance yourself with the experience of others. You
also have a difficult time separating a fact from an insult - I've not
called you one name. I have called your technical knowledge and skills into
quesiton though and with good reason.

I wouldn't take medical advice from someone who just read a magazine article
about my medical condition. I'd want to talk with the person who has had
the training, knowledge and experience in that area. You have clearly shown
that you'd prefer to get your advice from the person with limited knowledge
and experience.

There's nothing else I can add to this for you. You will be doomed to fall
into the same web development traps that the rest of us have fallen into and
spend lots of time (and presumably your clients money) wondering why the
page isn't working properly.

The only thing a student really needs is a willingness to learn. Maybe you
have that in other areas, but you've shown very clearly that in this one,
you don't.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney
[ASP.NET MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx]
Got tidbits? Get it here... http://tinyurl.com/27cok

Actually, you DID say that (you said the following):

"I'll concede that the only thing i've found that flow is good for is
screen
resolution issues. Now, the applications built with gridlayout mode
we will be problematic for the visually impaired since their resolutions
will cause a HUGE mess on screen. Also, users who are prone to
adjust their browser text size to the extreme settings may be mildly
affected by gridlayout."

...And guess what? These issues (resolution & text size) are applicable
to absolutely EVERY web application built. They are not exceptions to
the rule, they are the rule.


Wow are you mis-informed! LOL


800x600 thru 1280x1024 is a range. What you build (using GridLayout) for
one resolution will look very different in another. That is how you
approximate a client application. Also, you can't really say that
GridLayout works in one mode or another...GridLayout works in ANY mode,
the problem is when you are in a different mode than the one that the app
was designed for (which is the whole point).


The popularity of that idea stopped about 5 years ago. Very few sites
today require a user to change their resolution to meet the UI. Again,
this is the whole point. As UI's have become more complex and technology
has given us more UI choices, we no longer need to have the user meet us,
we can meet the user.


What?!! You've only been doing web application work for a few days?!!!
OMG!!! Why are we even having this conversation then? You are putting up
positions that have been tried and tested for many years (by the web
community and myself as well) and basically telling us all that in the
"few days" that you have been doing web development you've somehow
figured out that we're wrong!?



This has nothing to do with our conversation.


Who says that this will happen using FlowLayout mode?! A control
wrapping to the next line down is not a Grid vs. Flow issue at all. It's
a matter of knowing how to code HTML properly.


Again, this is irrelevant since it doesn't happen in FlowLayout mode
either.


And the sure do want to make sure that EVERYONE who uses their
application will experience the EXACT same UI. The GridLayout solution
won't do that, a properly designed FlowLayout will.


Alvin, it is clear to me that you have very limited knowledge of HTML and
very limited experience in correctly testing the UI layer of a web
application. That's a dangerous place to be in if you want to defend a
position. If you had that experience it would be clear as day to you
that everything you have been saying is hogwash.

You keep bringing up your customer's wants and needs and how I am
"blindly" saying that FlowLayout is the way to go. The truth is that
GridLayout causes problems that must be overcome and FlowLayout prevents
those problems in the first place. So, they both can be used to
accomplish the goal, BUT FlowLayout will get you there faster and with
less problems along the way. I've also said that absolute positioning of
particular controls here and there (CSS Level 2), not to be confused with
GridLayout mode (where ALL page content is absolutely positioned using
CSS Level 2) can be useful (when used properly).

Of course you are entitled to your opinion and if you can get the job
done with GridLayout then "more power to you", but you may want to listen
to the advice of those who have been doing this for a decade or so and
can clearly look at both sides of this coin. You may even find that by
taking some advice, your job gets easier and your customers are happier.

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

If Flow layout has its place, as you agree, then why would you have the

foresight to tell him "rubish" when our original poster noted that flow
layout would be best for his project?

What i was getting at was that a certain class of developers discredit
gridlayout without reason and out of prejudice.
I wasn't sure if that was why OP was told to use flow over grid or if there
was actual merit to using flow.

Personally I think having GridLayout be the default was a mistake on MS's
part, since (in my experience) it causes desktop application developers
more troubles than it's worth, and typically they do not even know about
FlowLayout!

I believe they do know about it. They choose not to use it. I've found that
those who choose grid over flow are typically
windows programmers who have moved to the web. ASP and HTML programmers
stick with flowlayout. Hence the war.
The default for whidbey was made flowlayout simply because a large number of
programmers from the other side of the fence
complained rather loudly about it - not because it worked better than
gridlayout. The issue is clearly divisive, but each option does have its
merit.
I guess that is our only common ground.

 

[Scott M.]

What i was getting at was that a certain class of developers discredit

gridlayout without reason and out of prejudice.
I wasn't sure if that was why OP was told to use flow over grid or if
there was actual merit to using flow.

Alvin, that is your opinion and is based, not in fact, but in your
perception. The reason that ASP and HTML developers (collectively known as
web developers) suggest FlowLayout is because their EXPERIENCE WITH WEB
DEVELOPMENT tells them that Grid causes problems and Flow is better. It
isn't prejudice and we're not dismissing Grid without giving it any thought.
It is based on our collective EXPERIENCE using the two choices (GridLayout
is not a .NET thing and we've had the ability to work with it for many years
now). What part of this don't you get?

I believe they do know about it. They choose not to use it. I've found
that those who choose grid over flow are typically
windows programmers who have moved to the web. ASP and HTML programmers
stick with flowlayout. Hence the war.

See above. Windows developers see GridLayout because iit is the default and
they don't know any better. Web developers know better. Any other former
Windows developer I've come across starts out liking Grid because it makes
them feel like they are working the same way as when they did Windows apps.
But, as soon as they begin to understand the unique UI issues that come up
in web development, they dump Grid and can see the value of Flow. There is
no "war" as you have said. In all honestly YOU are the only person I've
come across (and I have worked with thousands of former client developers)
that seems to want to fight about this.

The default for whidbey was made flowlayout simply because a large number
of programmers from the other side of the fence
complained rather loudly about it - not because it worked better than
gridlayout.

On what basis do you say that? What study have you seen? What statistics
are you quoting from? This has been your problem all along. You make these
"pronouncments" about why something is a certain way with no knowledge or
experience in what you are talking about. I wish you could hear how foolish
you sound spouting out these rediculous statements that are not based in
anything but your desire to have them be true.

The issue is clearly divisive, but each option does have its merit.
I guess that is our only common ground.

It's only divisive with you.

By the way, I'm just curious here. You say you are an ASP.NET MVP? How did
that happen when you have no practical experience in web development and
know very little about HTML?

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney
[ASP.NET MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx]
Got tidbits? Get it here... http://tinyurl.com/27cok

I wouldn't disagree with that, no, but let's look at your first reply in
this post:


(emphasis mine)

If Flow layout has its place, as you agree, then why would you have the
foresight to tell him "rubish" when our original poster noted that flow
layout would be best for his project? (Assuming you knew nothing about
his project, which I take is the case, unless you personally know the
original poster or have communicated with him about this project
beforehand.)

In any event, this whole thread basically boiled down to a flamewar. I
doubt we'll be able to influence one another's firm beliefs. My belief
is aligned with Scott M.'s, that FlowLayout is best and, where absolute
positioning is needed, it can be employed. Personally I think having
GridLayout be the default was a mistake on MS's part, since (in my
experience) it causes desktop application developers more troubles than
it's worth, and typically they do not even know about FlowLayout!

--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

I believe they do know about it. They choose not to use it.

And as I said in earlier messages in this thread, that has not been my
experience with the students I work with coming from a Windows
development background. The first time I mention Flow, 9 out of 10
students who are coming from a Windows background in my classes will ask
what Flow is, how to configure it, etc., etc. What experience prompts
you to claim that they are aware of FlowLayout, but choose not to
utilize it?

--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

I do an annual talk on .NET at a local university so my experience comes
from interacting with this group. I cannot say with certainty that their
choice is due to the influence of a teacher or their personal preference, or
knowledge/lack of the feature. I wouldn't be willing to hazard a guess at
this point because I don't teach a class so I have no way of probing the
reasons for their decision.

 

[Scott M.]

So you don't actually have any first hand knowledge of how professional web
developers work, only university students? It keeps getting better and
better.

I do an annual talk on .NET at a local university so my experience comes
from interacting with this group. I cannot say with certainty that their
choice is due to the influence of a teacher or their personal preference,
or knowledge/lack of the feature. I wouldn't be willing to hazard a guess
at this point because I don't teach a class so I have no way of probing the
reasons for their decision.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney
[ASP.NET MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx]
Got tidbits? Get it here... http://tinyurl.com/27cok

And as I said in earlier messages in this thread, that has not been my
experience with the students I work with coming from a Windows
development background. The first time I mention Flow, 9 out of 10
students who are coming from a Windows background in my classes will ask
what Flow is, how to configure it, etc., etc. What experience prompts
you to claim that they are aware of FlowLayout, but choose not to utilize
it?

--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Scott Mitchell [MVP]]

I wouldn't be willing to hazard a guess at
this point because I don't teach a class so I have no way of probing the
reasons for their decision.

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems
from interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable
percentage of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no
Web background aren't even aware of FlowLayout?


--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Alvin Bruney [MVP]]

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems from

interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable percentage
of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no Web background
aren't even aware of FlowLayout?

I'd be willing to accept that.

 

[Dan C]

This whole conversation underscores the challenges that Visual Studio's
ASP.NET development environment presents to both the classic Windows
developers and to us HTML-rooted scripting developers. Classic Windows
developers will lean toward the grid layout and have to learn the associated
pitfalls the hard way. I can't imagine how one could learn proper HTML or CSS
techniques using Visual Studio. HTML developers are hesitant to make the move
to ASP.NET at all, because it's hard to let go of our perfectly clean,
lightweight HTML code.

That said, I would like to hear from Scott on this. I'm a classic ASP guy
who needs to make the move, and it sounds like you've done it!

(e-mail address removed)

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems from
interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable percentage
of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no Web background
aren't even aware of FlowLayout?

I'd be willing to accept that.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney
[ASP.NET MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx]
Got tidbits? Get it here... http://tinyurl.com/27cok

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems from
interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable percentage
of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no Web background
aren't even aware of FlowLayout?


--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!

 

[Scott M.]

Hi Dan,

Frankly, this thread is somewhat of an aberration. It's not really as big
of a deal as it may sound (the positioning "debate", I mean). Once you tell
a former Windows developer (everyone of them except Alvin, that is) why it's
not good to use GridLayout, they understand, use FlowLayout and move on.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment that HTML developers are hesitant
to go to ASP.NET because of the perfectly clean, lightweight code. HTML can
only do so much and then you need server-side programmatic abilities.
Classic ASP gave us that, but it was anything but clean. It used scripting
(not compiled code, limited data typing, limited OO, didn't scale well,
etc.) languages, rather than compiled languages to get the job done.

I was very eager to go to ASP.NET (nearly 4 years ago now for me), but there
was a learning curve involved even though I was a Classic ASP and VB 6.0
guy. I didn't fully "get it" as to what .NET was and how it meant changing
the way I programmed. The actual coding came easy but, it took me about 6
months of using it before the light bulb went on and I understood what I was
doing and why it was so much better than what we had before.

I strongly encourage you to "dive in", but be prepared to re-think some of
what you took for granted in the "old days".

Good luck!

Scott

This whole conversation underscores the challenges that Visual Studio's
ASP.NET development environment presents to both the classic Windows
developers and to us HTML-rooted scripting developers. Classic Windows
developers will lean toward the grid layout and have to learn the
associated
pitfalls the hard way. I can't imagine how one could learn proper HTML or
CSS
techniques using Visual Studio. HTML developers are hesitant to make the
move
to ASP.NET at all, because it's hard to let go of our perfectly clean,
lightweight HTML code.

That said, I would like to hear from Scott on this. I'm a classic ASP guy
who needs to make the move, and it sounds like you've done it!

(e-mail address removed)

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems
from
interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable
percentage
of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no Web
background
aren't even aware of FlowLayout?

I'd be willing to accept that.

--
Regards,
Alvin Bruney
[ASP.NET MVP http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx]
Got tidbits? Get it here... http://tinyurl.com/27cok

Alvin Bruney [MVP] wrote:
I wouldn't be willing to hazard a guess at this point because I don't
teach a class so I have no way of probing the reasons for their
decision.

Perhaps, then, you'd be willing to accept my explanation, which stems
from
interaction with students: that there is definitely a sizable
percentage
of Windows application developers learning ASP.NET with no Web
background
aren't even aware of FlowLayout?


--

Scott Mitchell
(e-mail address removed)
http://www.4GuysFromRolla.com

* When you think ASP.NET, think 4GuysFromRolla.com!