R
Radium
Hi:
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
Thanks,
Radium
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
Thanks,
Radium
Radium said:Hi:
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
"JavaScript was first introduced and deployed in the Netscape
browser version 2.0B3 in December of 1995"
--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript
"Microsoft Windows scored a significant success with
Windows 3.0, released in 1990."
--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Microsoft_Windows
Hi:
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
Radium said:Were Livescript or Mocha -- earlier versions of Javascript -- ever
used on Windows 3.0?
Yes, but not very extensively for two reasons:
1) At the time of Netscape 2.x release Windows 3.x
was already on
decline with Windows 95 migration almost completed.
So Windows 3.x was
approx. in the same position as Windows 98 SE or Windows ME are right
now against Windows XP.
2) On 16-bit platforms JavaScript engine was made as COM and not as
EXE module (some may remember .com vs .exe distinction on MS-DOS)
That meant 65536 bytes for all fun including the engine itself taking
good half of it.
1) At the time of Netscape 2.x release Windows 3.x was already on
decline with Windows 95 migration almost completed.
VK misinformed:
The OP specified windows 3.0, not 3.x. 3.0 was a non-event.
Wrong. 3.1 lasted way past 1995.
Wrong (subtly). XP is nothing more than windows NT version 5.1 and NT was
around way before windows 98 was even announced.
Please cite your reference for this rubbish. Nobody (except for perhaps
driver authors) wrote to .com in this era. In 1985 perhaps, but not in the
90's.
Bullshit. A 16 bit program had access to all memory, yes, all 640K of it.
You need to look into what large pointers are.
Navigator 2 (December 1995) was released 4 months after Windows 95
(August 1995). To say Windows 95 had almost completely replaced
Windows 3.x by then is simply wrong, as evidenced by the fact that
Microsoft continued support until December 2001.
Hi:
Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?
Thanks,
Radium
stream Windows 3.0 was that started the Microsoft as what it is
right now. Windows 3.0 is also what wiped out all Apple's business
plans there were clear, glorious and prepared for 10 years in
advance.
Windows 3.1 and 3.1 for Workgroups were merely the fixation of the
overwhelming success of 3.0
I thought the context was pretty clear, but if not: I mean the
_proportion_ of users with this or that type of OS. Right now there is
some amount of Windows 98 users and - who knows - maybe still some
Windows 3.x users. Same at 1995/1996/1997 - some amount of Windows 3.x
users definitely remained but they went out of any public interest
soon after Windows 95 release.
With 16-bits you cannot address more than 65536 memory sells: same way
as one cannot write "half-wit" by using only 2 letters. There are many
ways to overcome this limitation like using two addresses: memory
segment and the position within this memory segment. Or do not bother
and to write a program fitted into 65536 bytes. The benefits are the
simplicity of the memory management, the payback is the used memory
limitation. Both ways were in use with executables extension by
convention either .com (65536) or .exe
JavaScript for Windows 3.x was .com with the memory limitation imposed
by this fact. In the linked FAQ of 1996 there is Brendan Eich response
about different engine limitations at that time. If you read it than
you maybe would save my time from extra explanations.
beegee said:Yup, you know your ancient computer architecture all right.
You have a pretty cloudy view of history VK. Windows 3.0 was just one
of quite a few windowing systems for Intel (DOS based computers) that
were out at the time. It was not taken seriously by any corporate IT
department, DOS was the OS of the day and Microsoft was DOS. 3.1
changed all that in corporate environments but it wasn't until Windows
95 that
Apple's "business plans" were "wiped out" as you put it.
True in a completely disengenous way. NT was a pure, written from the
ground up, OS, with linear addressing. Windows 98 and ME were
descendants of Windows 95 which were all built on top of DOS which
could only accomplish linear addressing by "thunking". MS reluctantly
put out 98 and ME but only because NT didn't meet home user,
multimedia needs.
Despite you contradicting yourself here I'll just say that Windows
users are notoriously slow adopters and there were plenty of 3.1 users
years after 95 was release. Vista and XP were fast adoptions but only
because Dell, HP, Gateway etc. shipped all new laptops and pcs with
these OS's installed.
Yup, you know your ancient computer architecture all right.
coordinate-like system with one byte indicating memory segment and
other byte indicating the position inside this segment.
First of all let's us try to finish with the OP's question. It was and
I remind:
"Was Javascript ever used when Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes?".
I guess a good part of the excitement came from the formulation "when
Windows 3.0 was the norm of OSes" - that brought here people tending
do not believe that such period of time ever existed. So let's us
bring the question to a neutral form:
""Was Javascript ever used on Windows 3.0?"
This is the question I actually answered saying that:
1) Yes, it was used on Netscape 2.0 with JavaScript support on Windows
3.0, Windows 3.1, Windows 3.1 for Workgroups. I am the one of such
users. Because Windows 3.x originally did not have TCP/IP support,
both Netscape 2.0 and Internet Explorer 2.0 were coming with Trumpets
add-on one had to install and make autorun on Windows 3.x before being
able to use any browser. Latest Windows 3.1 - I believe - were coming
with Trumpets already included into installation package.
2) JavaScript was rarely used on Netscape for Windows 3.x for two
reasons:
a) with first Netscape with JavaScript support appeared December 1995,
in the year 1996 Web users under Windows 3.x were out of interest and
relevance for web-developers.
b) JavaScript engine for Netscape for Windows 3.x was implemented as
COM and not as EXE file with memory limit of 65536 bytes where the
engine code itself was placed as well. Besides the permanent code the
engine also created run-time internal allocations for service
purposes, so the actual available space for the user script might get
way below of the promised 32K. One could count on 8K-16K, the rest was
on luck. Yet now deeply forgotten art to compensate narrow resources
by programmer's creativity was still alive at that time, so I even
remember arcade games for Netscape 2.o with <textarea> as an "output
device".
This is what I said in my first response and this is all true and
correct whether one likes it or not.
I believe - but it's really pushing my memory - that Netscape 3.0 also
had a version for Windows 3.x and that on this version the memory
limit problem was partially addressed so one could use scripts over
32K in size by breaking them onto several <script> elements each no
more than 32K. So I guess instead of .com structure they moved on
QBasic/QuickBasic like approach with the interpreter by itself and
sources loaded on overlay.
Any way, it seems that no one so far contested the possibility itself
of using JavaScript on Windows 3.x The points of excitement are the
reasons why it never was widely used on this platform. These are 2(a)
and 2(b) from above. Truthfully the argument "because I said so as I
saw it by my own yeys" should be enough as an argument, but OK.
If anyone has problems with 2(a) then the advanced search athttp://groups.google.com/advanced_search
is to your service. You may measure yourself the level of interest to
Windows 3.x support by studying relevant questions year by year
starting January 1996.
A real conspiracy theory adept may say of course that this part of
DejaNews archives was patched by malicious people or that Windows
3.x supporters were a secret group of people avoiding to show up on
public forums That would be hard to argue with such statements
If anyone has problems with 2(b) then the linked FAQ from 1996
contains Brendan Eich response. If it's still not enough then just get
yourselve an old computer with 16-bit processor, MS-DOS 6.21 (or a bit
lower), Windows 3.1, Trumpets add-on, Netscape 2.0 with JavaScript
support, install all that and check yourselve with different script
sizes.
Livescript, it was Mocha. Would you happen to know when Mocha changed
its name to Livescript?
Also, were Livescript or Mocha ever used on Windows 3.0 in 1990 when
Win 3.0 came out?
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