p tag vs br tag

P

posterguy

Wow!

I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?? Is it ME, or is this guy NUTS?

Ort
 
N

Neal

Wow!

I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?? Is it ME, or is this guy NUTS?

<p> (and the closing tag </p> which may be optional for you) set off a
paragraph. Most user agents render paragraphs with the space of one blank
line between.

<br>, of course, is a simple line break, or "carriage return", and leaves
no space.

Now, when I was first learning "tags" for using in forums and whatnot so
many years ago, to me <p> meant "double space" and <br> meant "single
space". Obviously, this is long before I ever REALLY learned HTML.

So seems to me this guy is wet behind the ears on what these elements are
for. Without knowing more about the context, I can't comment further.
 
P

posterguy

Neal said:
<p> (and the closing tag </p> which may be optional for you) set off a
paragraph. Most user agents render paragraphs with the space of one blank
line between.

<br>, of course, is a simple line break, or "carriage return", and leaves
no space.

Now, when I was first learning "tags" for using in forums and whatnot so
many years ago, to me <p> meant "double space" and <br> meant "single
space". Obviously, this is long before I ever REALLY learned HTML.

So seems to me this guy is wet behind the ears on what these elements are
for. Without knowing more about the context, I can't comment further.

I use the <p> to end a paragraph, and set it apart from the next. He
'suggests' using 2 <br> tags, which I use to set one line of say, items, in
a column.

I just don't get why he insists THIS ... <br><br><br> uses less space, than
<p>. I think he's gone loopy.

Additionally, he's making urls with SPACES in them. Yes, they resolve, but
cutting/pasting his links to an email is a royal pain, having to close the
gaps first! I have no idae where he gets these ideas.

I dunno... seems like bad micromanaging to me...
 
K

Karl Groves

posterguy said:
Wow!

I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?? Is it ME, or is this guy NUTS?

He's an idiot.
Tell him to get bent.

-Karl
 
C

C A Upsdell

posterguy said:
Wow!

I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?? Is it ME, or is this guy NUTS?

He's nuts.
 
P

posterguy

C A Upsdell said:
He's nuts.

Welp... looks like I'm going to look for another job. I can't take this
guy, anymore.

Thank you all for your input. I thought I was going crazy for a minute
there.

That email I quoted completely floored me.

peace

mike
 
M

Mark Parnell

I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

WHAT THE HELL IS HE TALKING ABOUT?? Is it ME, or is this guy NUTS?

Yes, he's nuts. If it is a paragraph, mark it up as a paragraph. If it
is a line break, mark it up as a line break. Quite simple, isn't it? :)
You can adjust the margins with CSS if you don't like the amount of
space it creates.
 
B

brucie

in post: <
posterguy said:
I just got an email from a guy... well, read this:

"STOP using <p> tags use <br> tags only <p> tags add
unnecessary space"

tell him you had to use <p>s because you ran out of <br>s
 
M

Mark Parnell

Actually <p> *begins* a paragraph.

Though if it immediately follows another paragraph that hasn't been
closed, it does end that one as well as starting a new one.
 
T

Tina - AffordableHOST.com

Mark Parnell said:
Though if it immediately follows another paragraph that hasn't been
closed, it does end that one as well as starting a new one.


Unless its upside down and backwards. Then it just makes all the text look
like it needs to go on the Atkin's diet. :-D

--Tina
 
O

Owen Jacobson

I just don't get why he insists THIS ... <br><br><br> uses less space, than
<p>. I think he's gone loopy.

<style type="text/css">
p { margin: 0; }
br { padding: 8em; }
</style>
....
<p>I don't know what you're talking about.</p>
 
J

Jeff Thies

Welp... looks like I'm going to look for another job. I can't take this
guy, anymore.

Thank you all for your input. I thought I was going crazy for a minute
there.

That email I quoted completely floored me.

You have to understand that most clients just want a certain look.

Paragraphs are good things, if your client doesn't like the margins, reduce
them with CSS as has already been suggested.

Cheers,
Jeff
 
B

Barry Pearson

Toby said:
Actually <p> *begins* a paragraph.

A long time ago, and far far away, <p> was a paragraph separator. (Did </p>
exist in those days?)

Perhaps this is why Neal says "Now, when I was first learning "tags" for using
in forums and whatnot so many years ago, to me <p> meant "double space" and
<br> meant "single space"."
 
N

Neal

A long time ago, and far far away, <p> was a paragraph separator. (Did
</p>
exist in those days?)

Perhaps this is why Neal says "Now, when I was first learning "tags" for
using
in forums and whatnot so many years ago, to me <p> meant "double space"
and
<br> meant "single space"."

This was, of course, back when I didn't even know it was HTML, just "cool
stuff". But even then it was not a paragraph ender, but a starter.

From http://ftp.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/html/rfc1866.txt :

5.5.1. Paragraph: P

The <P> element indicates a paragraph. The exact indentation, leading
space, etc. of a paragraph is not specified and may be a function of
other tags, style sheets, etc.

Typically, paragraphs are surrounded by a vertical space of one line
or half a line. The first line in a paragraph is indented in some
cases.

Example of use:

<H1>This Heading Precedes the Paragraph</H1>
<P>This is the text of the first paragraph.
<P>This is the text of the second paragraph. Although you do not
need to start paragraphs on new lines, maintaining this
convention facilitates document maintenance.</P>
<P>This is the text of a third paragraph.</P>

Even in HTML 2.0, complete open and close markup was used. The closing tag
was optional, as you can see.
 
B

Barry Pearson

Neal said:
A long time ago, and far far away, <p> was a paragraph separator.
(Did </p> exist in those days?)
[snip]
This was, of course, back when I didn't even know it was HTML, just
"cool stuff". But even then it was not a paragraph ender, but a
starter.
From http://ftp.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/html/rfc1866.txt :
[snip]

I was probably being influenced by the following (and perhaps poor memory
too):
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/HTMLPlus/htmlplus_11.html

"If you wish, you may think of the <P> tag as a paragraph separator. This
works since HTML+ formally doesn't require you to wrap text up as
paragraphs.... Browsers, when parsing paragraphs, can choose to simply treat
the <P> tag as denoting a paragraph break."

HTML+ wasn't a formal specification, but a 1993 proposal. But the above page
is interesting because of the way it talks of both forms as being
similar/equivalent. Some of the rigour (well - sort-of) that we see in later
specifications was not there early on, perhaps even in the thinking of the
pioneers.

I wonder how much of more rigorous thinking was influenced by the need to have
an unambiguous document tree to enable CSS to make sense?
 
D

David Håsäther

Barry Pearson said:
A long time ago, and far far away, <p> was a paragraph
separator. (Did </p> exist in those days?)
[snip]
This was, of course, back when I didn't even know it was HTML,
just "cool stuff". But even then it was not a paragraph ender,
but a starter.
From http://ftp.ics.uci.edu/pub/ietf/html/rfc1866.txt :
[snip]

I was probably being influenced by the following (and perhaps poor
memory too):
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/HTMLPlus/htmlplus_11.html

Even before HTML+, http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/draft-ietf-iiir-html-01.txt
said that "The P element marks the break between two paragraphs", and
it's content model was EMPTY:
<!ELEMENT P - O EMPTY -- separates paragraphs -->
 

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