Python is slow

[cm_gui]

http://blog.kowalczyk.info/blog/2008/07/05/why-google-should-sponsor-a-faster-python-vm.html

I fully agree with Krzysztof Kowalczyk .
Can't they build a faster VM for Python since they love the language
so much?

Python is SLOW. And I am not comparing it with compiled languages
like C.
Python is even slower than PHP!

Just go to any Python website and you will know.
An example is:
http://www2.ljworld.com/
And this site is created by the creators of Django!

And it is not just this Python site that is slow. There are many many
Python sites which are very slow. And please don’t say that it could
be the web hosting or the server which is slow — because when so many
Python sites are slower than PHP sites, it couldn’t be the web
hosting. Also, Zope/Plone is even slower.

Python is slow. Very slow.

 

[Paul McGuire]

Python is slow. Very slow.

And... ? Was there a question or specific suggestion in there
somewhere?

Do you go to your mechanic and say "My car wont go as fast as the
other cars on the road! They should make it faster!"?

Good luck to you in your futile, uh I meant, *future* endeavors. (No
wait, I really meant "futile".)

-- Paul

 

[Bruno Desthuilliers]

cm_gui a écrit :

(snip FUD)

see also:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_frm/thread/5cea684680f63c82

by the same troll^M^M^M^M^Msmart guy.

 

[Thorsten Kampe]

* cm_gui (Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:42:40 -0800 (PST))>

Python is SLOW. And I am not comparing it with compiled languages
like C.
Python is even slower than PHP!

Sure. But Perl is faster than Ruby (exactly 2.53 times as fast). And
Python is 1.525 times faster than VisualBasic (or was it the other way
round?).

Just go to any Python website and you will know.
An example is:
http://www2.ljworld.com/
And this site is created by the creators of Django!

Quite slow, indeed! Django is even slower than Python itself...

And it is not just this Python site that is slow. There are many many
Python sites which are very slow. And please don’t say that it could
be the web hosting or the server which is slow — because when so many
Python sites are slower than PHP sites, it couldn’t be the web
hosting. Also, Zope/Plone is even slower.

I hope this will awaken the community. I did a quick test and it seems
that Zope is slower than Python but Python is faster than Plone and PHP
is faster than even Perl and Python _together_...!

Thanks for the heads-up, cm_gui!

Thorsten

 

[Jason Scheirer]

http://blog.kowalczyk.info/blog/2008/07/05/why-google-should-sponsor-...

I fully agree with Krzysztof Kowalczyk .
Can't they build a faster VM for Python since they love the language
so much?

Python is SLOW.    And I am not comparing it with compiled languages
like C.
Python is even slower than PHP!

Just go to any Python website and you will know.
An example is:http://www2.ljworld.com/
And this site is created by the creators of Django!

And it is not just this Python site that is slow. There are many many
Python sites which are very slow. And please don’t say that it could
be the web hosting or the server which is slow — because when so many
Python sites are slower than PHP sites, it couldn’t be the web
hosting.   Also, Zope/Plone is even slower.

Python is slow. Very slow.

I have two responses, and could not decide which one to post. Then I
figured I could just do both.

--

Response 1:

You have stumbled on to our plot! We use Python because we hate
getting things done and love nothing more than waiting for things to
complete, because that means more time to drink coffee. Python is a
hoax pushed on the world by the Vast Conspiracy Of People Who Actually
Never Get Anything Done But Enjoy Watching Things Scroll By Very
Slowly While Drinking Coffee.

--

Response 2:

Are you new to Python and frustrated with it? Is that where this is
coming from? If so, I am sorry that Python is so hard.

You can use Jython and get the Java VM or IronPython and get the CLR
VM. There's an immediate fix there for your objections to the CPython
VM. You could investigate getting some higher performance code going
using Stackless. Or move to event-based coding in Twisted and avoid
lots of while loop spins and locking/threading mischief and the other
things that come with network-bound programming like web development.
The PyPy project is also writing a fast Python intepreter with
multiple code output options. Or you can also profile your existing
code and optimize. Or integrate NumPy and Psyco into your efforts. And
you have the advantage of writing C extensions where it makes sense if
you're using CPython -- it's relatively easy and has resulted in fewer
than a dozen fatalities over the course of its existence. There are
options galore here, and 'Python' is actually a large, diverse
ecosystem. Web development is one thing Python does, but is not its
specialized purpose. PHP is a collection of tragic mistakes that
masquerades as a scripting language for the web.

I'd like to see some data on the response times of sites running
various Python web frameworks against each other and versus sites in
other languages. I'm also curious about the perception of speed versus
actual speed here -- if a site pushes 125k of page data a second at a
constant rate or pushes it all in 125k chunks in one second intervals,
the first is going to 'feel' faster initially even though both will
finish transferring the data at the same time and have identical page
load times. And if you're dealing with massive amounts of static
content (javascript frameworks, css, etc) that only needs to go over
the wire one then yeah, the page is going to be slow ON FIRST LOAD but
from then on have 90% of what it needs in local cache, so subsequent
page loads will be smaller and faster. That appears to be the case
with ljworld, at least.

 

[George Sakkis]

http://blog.kowalczyk.info/blog/2008/07/05/why-google-should-sponsor-...

I fully agree with Krzysztof Kowalczyk .
Can't they build a faster VM for Python since they love the language
so much?

WTF is Krzysztof Kowalczyk and why should we care ?

Thanks for playing, the exit for the trolls is right down the hall.

 

[D'Arcy J.M. Cain]

[...]

Put this guy in the junk filter,

What's the point if people like you are just going to repost his entire
message like that?

 

[Arnaud Delobelle]

[stuff]

Python is slow. Very slow.

The same troll started this same flame earlier this year:

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.python/browse_thread/thread/5cea684680f63c82?q=

 

[Luis M. González]

You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!
And when I say Wrong, I mean WRONG!!!

And I am not saying that you are confussed.
I say that you are WRONG!

And when someone says so many times that you are wrong, it is because
you are WRONG!
And don't say that you are not wrong, because you are wrong!

You are Wrong. Very Wrong.

 

[cm_gui]

You guys are living in denial.
Python is SLOW, especially for web apps.

Instead of getting mad, why don't get together and come up with a
faster VM/interpreter?

The emperor doesn't like to be told he is not wearing any clothes?

 

[Carl Banks]

Python is SLOW.    And I am not comparing it with compiled languages
like C.
Python is even slower than PHP!

cm_gui is TROLL. And I am not compring it with bots like Aaron
Castironpi Brody. cm_gui is even troller than Xah Lee!


Carl Banks

 

[MRAB]

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 10:25 PM, Carl Banks <[email protected]




cm_gui is TROLL. And I am not compring it with bots like Aaron
Castironpi Brody. cm_gui is even troller than Xah Lee!


actually Castironpi has made some coherent replies lately. Xah Lee is
worse than ever though.

Perhaps there's a Law of Conservation of Trolling.

 

[Luis M. González]

http://blog.kowalczyk.info/blog/2008/07/05/why-google-should-sponsor-...

I fully agree with Krzysztof Kowalczyk .
Can't they build a faster VM for Python since they love the language
so much?

Python is SLOW.    And I am not comparing it with compiled languages
like C.
Python is even slower than PHP!

Just go to any Python website and you will know.
An example is:http://www2.ljworld.com/
And this site is created by the creators of Django!

And it is not just this Python site that is slow. There are many many
Python sites which are very slow. And please don’t say that it could
be the web hosting or the server which is slow — because when so many
Python sites are slower than PHP sites, it couldn’t be the web
hosting.   Also, Zope/Plone is even slower.

Python is slow. Very slow.

Now seriously, just to finish your idiotic rant, check the Pypy
project:

http://codespeak.net/pypy
http://morepypy.blogspot.com

And if you still think this is not enough, why don't you help these
guys to make it faster?

Luis

 

[jay.dow]

Now seriously, just to finish your idiotic rant, check the Pypy
project:

http://codespeak.net/pypyhttp://morepypy.blogspot.com

And if you still think this is not enough, why don't you help these
guys to make it faster?

Luis

PyPy looks pretty sweet. I'm glad this discussion was started. There
always seems to be this buzz about python being slow. So what if it's
not as fast as C? I make that up by cutting down development time. I
figured if I ever ran into something being too slow, that I'd just
have to learn c extensions and replace the bottle necks. In 2007 I
wrote a system in python that communicated to an autopilot on an
autonomously flying aircraft at real-time. We never had any speed
issues. I have not played with django much and I do not typically
develop web apps, but the slowness really must be bloated algorithms
in the libraries you are using. Programming in other languages (java,
c, c++, c# etc) is not an issue for me, but next to python it's like
writing with a feather and ink instead of a ball point pen. I have to
put more time into working with the tools I'm using than actually
getting the job done.

 

[Giampaolo Rodola']

Now seriously, just to finish your idiotic rant, check the Pypy
project:

http://codespeak.net/pypyhttp://morepypy.blogspot.com

And if you still think this is not enough, why don't you help these
guys to make it faster?

Luis- Nascondi testo citato

- Mostra testo citato -

The real (and still unsolved) problem with PyPy is the installation
which requires something like a dozen of third-party packages to be
installed.
Unfortunately it seems there are no plans yet for releasing any
Windows/Linux/Mac installer in the near future.


--- Giampaolo
http://code.google.com/p/pyftpdlib/

 

[Marco Mariani]

The real (and still unsolved) problem with PyPy is the installation
which requires something like a dozen of third-party packages to be
installed.
Unfortunately it seems there are no plans yet for releasing any
Windows/Linux/Mac installer in the near future.

I'm not using it, but at least Ubuntu 8.10 has the .deb packages of pypy
1.0. And I remember installing a release last year in a few minutes,
during a conference talk.

 

[sturlamolden]

cm_gui is TROLL. And I am not compring it with bots like Aaron
Castironpi Brody. cm_gui is even troller than Xah Lee!

Sure he is a troll, but he also have a point. Python is slower than it
needs to be.

Creating a fast implementation of a dynamic language is almost rocket
science. But it has been done. There is Stronghold, the fastest
version of Smalltalk known to man, on which the Sun Java VM is based.
On a recent benchmark Java 6 -server beats C compiled by GCC 4.2.3 And
most of that magic comes from an implementation of a dynamically typed
language (Smalltalk). A Python interpreter based on Strontalk would be
interesting...

http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=all

Second, there are other fast implementations of dynamic languages. The
CMUCL and SBCL versions of Common Lisp comes to min; you can see how
SBCL does in the same benchmark (CMUCL tends to be even faster).

So Python is a lot slower than it needs to be. But in most cases,
perceived 'slowness' comes from bad programming.

http://www.strongtalk.org/

 

[sturlamolden]

Creating a fast implementation of a dynamic language is almost rocket
science. But it has been done. There is Stronghold,

I meant of course Strongtalk...

 

[Luis M. González]

I meant of course Strongtalk...

Blah, blah, blah...
Why don't you guys google a little bit to know what's being done to
address python's "slowness"??
It has been mentioned in this thread the pypy project (isn't it enough
for you??)
Other hints: shedskin, psyco, pyrex...

 

[sturlamolden]

Why don't you guys google a little bit to know what's being done to
address python's "slowness"??

Nothing is being done, and woth Py3k it got even worse.

It has been mentioned in this thread the pypy project (isn't it enough
for you??)
Other hints: shedskin, psyco, pyrex...

None of those projects addresses inefficacies in the CPython
interpreter, except for psyco - which died of an overdose PyPy.

PyPy is interesting if they ever will be able to produce something
useful. They have yet to prove that. Even if PyPy can come up with a
Python JIT, they will still be decades behind the technologies of
Strongtalk and Java. That is the problem with reinventing the wheel
all over again.

Not to forget LLVM and Parrot which also will support Python
frontends.