Question please!!!

C

Colin Hammond

Dear Designers,
I am wanting to get into making web pages and I want to know from experts
like yourselves all points of view of bad design examples of web pages, so
I can know not what to do and some good examples of what to do and tell me
why you think they are either good or bad design please?
Looking forward to your responces!!!
 
J

Jim Higson

Colin said:
Dear Designers,
I am wanting to get into making web pages and I want to know from experts
like yourselves all points of view of bad design examples of web pages,
so I can know not what to do and some good examples of what to do and tell
me why you think they are either good or bad design please?
Looking forward to your responces!!!

Not the worst site by a long way, but this always frustrates me:
http://www.llgc.org.uk/

See the flash logo at the top? They make no provision for browsers without
flash installed - and it's just a damn logo - they could have a png/gif
version and not really loose anything.

To see a good use of flash in a similar context, see

http://www.empirehotel.co.uk/

The logo at the top is also nicely animated, but users who don't have flash
get an image instead which is almost as nice.

(very welsh theme to this post!)

Jim
 
I

Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen

Colin said:
Dear Designers,
I am wanting to get into making web pages and I want to know from experts
like yourselves all points of view of bad design examples of web pages, so
I can know not what to do and some good examples of what to do and tell me
why you think they are either good or bad design please?
Looking forward to your responces!!!

http://home.no.net/ingernet/links.php
See heading How to make your pages less annoying.
Not so many examples there, but it's easy enough
to find examples of bad design on the net...
Disregard points 7, 8, 9 of the don'ts and 3 and 4
of the do's (they are aimed at genealogy page
authors but the advice is "universal").
 
J

Jim Higson

Inger said:
http://home.no.net/ingernet/links.php
See heading How to make your pages less annoying.
Not so many examples there, but it's easy enough
to find examples of bad design on the net...
Disregard points 7, 8, 9 of the don'ts and 3 and 4
of the do's (they are aimed at genealogy page
authors but the advice is "universal").

Hmmm... Flash at the top of the don't list - well, I think that should say
"bad use of flash", see my examples elsewhere in this thread. And
javascript is fine so long as it is not relied on for anything critical.

Even Java applets, used sensibly can add to a site.
 
O

oo-

Colin Hammond said:
Dear Designers,
I am wanting to get into making web pages and I want to know from experts
like yourselves all points of view of bad design examples of web pages,
so I can know not what to do and some good examples of what to do and tell
me why you think they are either good or bad design please?
Looking forward to your responces!!!

--

check out http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com
 
I

Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen

Jim said:
Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen wrote:




Hmmm... Flash at the top of the don't list - well, I think that should say
"bad use of flash", see my examples elsewhere in this thread. And
javascript is fine so long as it is not relied on for anything critical.

Even Java applets, used sensibly can add to a site.

Yes, many of the things on the list are OK if used
sensibly, and some can be impossible to replace.
(Like a pdf file that /has to/ look a certain way
or a caption of an old handwritten document.)
Javascript and cookies can enhance a site, but
Javascript shouldn't be used as only means for
navigation or contact with the author. Agreed.
I choose to advice newcomers to not use those
technologies until they know what they are doing
and why. Maybe I should point that out clearer?
I have installed Adblock to my Firefox, because I
feel that Flash and applets are mostly annoying...
 
W

WebcastMaker

Dear Designers,
I am wanting to get into making web pages and I want to know from experts
like yourselves all points of view of bad design examples of web pages, so
I can know not what to do and some good examples of what to do and tell me
why you think they are either good or bad design please?
Looking forward to your responces!!!

It is totally dependant on what you think "a bad" site is.

To some it is a site that does not validate.
To some it is a site that does not contain flash.
To some it is a site that does contain flash.
To some it is a site that uses Javascript.
To so met is a site that doesn't.
To some color is most important.
To some, color is meaningless.

So, what is the baseline to judge against?
 
N

Nik Coughin

Colin said:
Ask how you would like the other person to treat you, then treat them that
way. This is the classic "Golden Rule" - do to others as you would have
them
do to you.

Richard Bach (under the guise of one of his characters, Donald Shimoda)
raises a good point in the book Illusions. How does a masochist fit in to
the Golden Rule? How about the crocodile-god worshipper who desires nothing
more than to be eaten alive in the pit?

:)
 
N

Neal

It is totally dependant on what you think "a bad" site is.

To some it is a site that does not validate.
To some it is a site that does not contain flash.
To some it is a site that does contain flash.
To some it is a site that uses Javascript.
To so met is a site that doesn't.
To some color is most important.
To some, color is meaningless.

So, what is the baseline to judge against?

Well, the visitor don't care about any of that. They want a site that
works, will get them to content, and won't piss them off.

So, consider every visitor you might get and proceed to design a site that
works for them, gets them to the content, and doesn't piss them off.
 
I

Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen

WebcastMaker said:
Hell, THAT is a site I would consider bad design! Sure it validates,
but it looks and reads like hell. Bland boring, nasty colors,text
across the entire screen, no images.

PU

PU? What does that mean?
I appreciate your feedback, not especially your
wording, though...
Images are intentionally left out, I don't know
what kind of images I should use either. The only
images I use, are my own, I'm so tired of the
standard oak tree clipart you will find on every
genealogy site.
If you don't like the color scheme I have picked,
well, I could choose another, and some others
wouldn't like that.
But if the text is difficult or unpleasant to
read, then that is a problem. Should I have
broader left and right margins? Any other hints
please?
My pages are meant to be as informative as
possible, not entertaining (but those who find an
ancestor match or anything else useful will
hopefully think my pages are worthwhile).
 
W

WebcastMaker

Well, the visitor don't care about any of that. They want a site that
works, will get them to content, and won't piss them off.

See that's where we disagree, I care about those things, and I believe
others do to.
 
C

Chris Morris

Neal said:
So, consider every visitor you might get and proceed to design a site
that works for them, gets them to the content, and doesn't piss them
off.

It's easier than it looks.
body {
layout: determine-telepathically;
font-size: determine-telepathically;
color: determine-telepathically;
background: determine-telepathically;
}

If you consider only that subset of visitors who haven't got a
misconfigured browser [1], you can skip even that rule.

[1] All graphic designers have their browser default font size set to
between 115% and 135% of their preferred size. Well-known fact.
 
M

mbstevens

Inger said:
Images are intentionally left out, I don't know
what kind of images I should use either. The only
images I use, are my own, I'm so tired of the
standard oak tree clipart you will find on every
genealogy site.

A perfectly reasonable way of approaching the problem.
If you don't like the color scheme I have picked,
well, I could choose another, and some others
wouldn't like that.

S/he describes them as 'nasty colors.'
I really don't understand. You're using
blue and blue-green only, a classic analogous color
scheme used for thousands of years by artists from
many cultures.
But if the text is difficult or unpleasant to
read, then that is a problem. Should I have
broader left and right margins? Any other hints
please?

Visually it is just fine.

Internally, it is an outdated morass. ;(
If you ever decided to change it's look, you would have to
change almost every line of the markup instead of making a couple of tweaks
in a CSS file.

Really, if you're going to be giving *technical* advice on
your page you should show you have the savvy *yourself* by updating the
page to modern semantic markup. (The crack about Frontpage is particularly
bizarre, since your pages internals show almost exactly the same kinds of
problems! It appears that you're just parroting something you've heard.)

When you do update your pages, their markup will shrink to about half the
present size, perhaps even less, and they will be much easier to read and
maintain.

It's definitely time to be doing some reading at w3c.org, webstandards.org,
alistapart, meyerweb, and realworldstyle. After doing the update you can
give your technical advice with a bit more authority. ;)
 
I

Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen

mbstevens said:
Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen wrote:
http://home.no.net/ingernet/links.php

Visually it is just fine.

Internally, it is an outdated morass. ;(
Oops!

If you ever decided to change it's look, you would have to
change almost every line of the markup instead of making a couple of tweaks
in a CSS file.

Really, if you're going to be giving *technical* advice on
your page you should show you have the savvy *yourself* by updating the
page to modern semantic markup. (The crack about Frontpage is particularly
bizarre, since your pages internals show almost exactly the same kinds of
problems! It appears that you're just parroting something you've heard.)

Hm, my advice is aimed at those less experienced
than myself, I don't know if that has any
significance. I want to present what I feel is
annoying on a website, but not pose as a technical
guru.
When you do update your pages, their markup will shrink to about half the
present size, perhaps even less, and they will be much easier to read and
maintain.

I can't see how I can shrink the code? I will need
much help!
It's definitely time to be doing some reading at w3c.org, webstandards.org,
alistapart, meyerweb, and realworldstyle. After doing the update you can
give your technical advice with a bit more authority. ;)

Will read up on those.
 
M

mbstevens

mbstevens said:
Visually it is just fine.

Internally, it is an outdated morass. ;(

My *apologies*!

Somehow, when I thought I was opening
*your* source, my browser opened *another* site's
source that was in another tab. I must have clicked
across and then clicked open-source. You should ignore
the last section of my comments, which don't even make
sense looking at your actual source.
 
I

Inger Helene Falch-Jacobsen

mbstevens said:
mbstevens wrote:




My *apologies*!

Somehow, when I thought I was opening
*your* source, my browser opened *another* site's
source that was in another tab. I must have clicked
across and then clicked open-source. You should ignore
the last section of my comments, which don't even make
sense looking at your actual source.

Ok, I guess my page is good enough, then...
I couldn't imagine what I had done to create such
bloating code, but maybe there was something new I
had missed, I thought...
Then I'll just say thank you for the thumbs up!
If anyone else has ideas for improvement, I'll
check back here occasionally...
 

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