RubyForge has been slow today because...

T

trans. (T. Onoma)

On Sunday 24 October 2004 10:52 am, David Ross wrote:
| Actually I havent seen any type of anti-bot methods being applied,
| someoen needs to create support via CAPTCHAs and see what happens. Yahoo
| uses captchas and you don't see them whingin about it. Wikis are free
| support systems via webpages, someone just build the damn support to
| stop this moronic spam.

How about an ascii-art based captcha? I'd be willing to take that route if
that is preferable to more people.

T.
 
G

gabriele renzi

Phlip ha scritto:
gabriele renzi wrote:



to be


enough and



How can you change it so HTML won't use a <form> tag with a <submit> button?

no, but you can change the way values are passed, I think that a change
as simple as renaming the name from 'text' to 'stuff' could suffice
Automated Web page hits don't need to "look for" the Submit button, by
pixels. They just parse a page and concoct an HTTP POST response.

see my previous message. UseMod is a perfect fit for a spambot, widely
used and standard interface.
I think that spamots just use it's edit form(I mean, they pass value
'name' with their stuff added) withouth scanning more exactly.
That's why we don't see lots of links in the 'summary' notes, and
neither we find them in 'alternative' wikis such as ruwiki or instiki.
but this is just my opinion I may be completely wrong :)
 
G

gabriele renzi

trans. (T. Onoma) ha scritto:
|
| but this kills half of the goodness of the wiki..
| I remain of the opinion that just stoipping the bots by changing the
| post interface a little could be enough

Half? I've done a lot of wiki editing, probably more than most. In all that
time I've added just over a handful of external links. This change only
effects pages with _new_ external links. So I do not see how this is any
where near "half". Do you honestly add an a new external link every other
time you edit/add a wiki page?

T.

I did'nt mean that half of the stuff in the wiki are external links :)
I meant that a wiki is a place where you collect info, by creating them
and by pointing out to places where you find other, just think of all
the pointers to ruby-talk.org . Sorry for being unclear.
 
T

trans. (T. Onoma)

)
| I meant that a wiki is a place where you collect info, by creating them
| and by pointing out to places where you find other, just think of all
| the pointers to ruby-talk.org . Sorry for being unclear.

I see. That's true. And we have a special tag for ruby-talk. And certainly a
few more special tags like that might be useful too.

But whatever course of action we take, it needs to be firm. And if that means
I have to get permission to post external links, I am willing to do that. A
wiki still offers a lot of goodness even without free-for-all external links.

But like I said, if this kind of moderation isn't preferred, then we can give
a captcha system a try.

T.
 
J

Jamis Buck

trans. (T. Onoma) said:
On Sunday 24 October 2004 10:52 am, David Ross wrote:
| Actually I havent seen any type of anti-bot methods being applied,
| someoen needs to create support via CAPTCHAs and see what happens. Yahoo
| uses captchas and you don't see them whingin about it. Wikis are free
| support systems via webpages, someone just build the damn support to
| stop this moronic spam.

How about an ascii-art based captcha? I'd be willing to take that route if
that is preferable to more people.

I've got a PMC (poor man's captcha) that guards the comment submission
for my blog (http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis, and click a 'comment' link
to see it). It's just plain text that must be entered backwards in a
text box. Easily circumvented, 'tis true, but I haven't had a single
spam comment on my blog since I implemented it.

- Jamis
 
P

Phlip

gabriele said:
see my previous message. UseMod is a perfect fit for a spambot, widely
used and standard interface.
I think that spamots just use it's edit form(I mean, they pass value
'name' with their stuff added) withouth scanning more exactly.
That's why we don't see lots of links in the 'summary' notes, and
neither we find them in 'alternative' wikis such as ruwiki or instiki.
but this is just my opinion I may be completely wrong :)

Well, let's try to say it like this: I think I could write a Wiki spamming
engine in fewer lines than you could, which could hit more kinds of Wikis
than yours.

Rest assured I don't want to push the state of this art...

Public Wikis were a nice concept. Like e-mail, they will remain either
hostile or useless until we invent a more secure 'net infrastructure.
 
J

Jim Weirich

I agree and CAPTCHA was my first suggestion. But the general take seemed to
be against it, siting reasons of use and implementation, and that spammers
would just find a way around it. I'm not so sure about these points, but
nonetheless pre-moderating pages with new external links is simple enough
and 100% effective.

I am trying an experiment on my wikis (UseMod based) where I require all
external links to be written HTTP://host/yada rather than http://host/yada.
Any page with a lower case http link is rejected (with a message directing
the user to an explaination). The patch to usemod effected only a few lines
of code. And although the measure is simple to circumvent, it has cut down
spam on my wikis to about one incident a week. I believe Tom has implemented
this patch on some (all?) the rubyforge project wikis with some success as
well.

-- Jim Weirich
 
C

Curt Hibbs

Jim said:
I am trying an experiment on my wikis (UseMod based) where I require all
external links to be written HTTP://host/yada rather than
http://host/yada.
Any page with a lower case http link is rejected (with a message
directing
the user to an explaination). The patch to usemod effected only
a few lines
of code. And although the measure is simple to circumvent, it
has cut down
spam on my wikis to about one incident a week. I believe Tom has
implemented
this patch on some (all?) the rubyforge project wikis with some
success as
well.

Tom has implemented this for at least 5 of the RubyForge projects in which I am involved. It has had a 100% successes rate in stopping the spam (so far). This is a temporary measure until we switch over to Ruwiki for RubyForge.

Austin is adding authentication to Ruwiki and Tom is integrating that into RubyForge's login, so you'll have to be logged-in to RubyForge to edit pages.

Curt
 
D

David Ross

Curt said:
Jim Weirich wrote:



Tom has implemented this for at least 5 of the RubyForge projects in which I am involved. It has had a 100% successes rate in stopping the spam (so far). This is a temporary measure until we switch over to Ruwiki for RubyForge.

Austin is adding authentication to Ruwiki and Tom is integrating that into RubyForge's login, so you'll have to be logged-in to RubyForge to edit pages.

Curt
I think having to be logged in to edit a wiki is good. Can't wait for
the full conversion.

David Ross
 
T

trans. (T. Onoma)

On Sunday 24 October 2004 02:28 pm, David Ross wrote:
| >Austin is adding authentication to Ruwiki and Tom is integrating that into
| > RubyForge's login, so you'll have to be logged-in to RubyForge to edit
| > pages.
| >
| >Curt
|
| I think having to be logged in to edit a wiki is good. Can't wait for
| the full conversion.
|
| David Ross

That's fine for Rubyforge, but not for Garden. Something else must still be
done there.

T.
 
D

David Ross

trans. (T. Onoma) said:
On Sunday 24 October 2004 02:28 pm, David Ross wrote:
| >Austin is adding authentication to Ruwiki and Tom is integrating that into
| > RubyForge's login, so you'll have to be logged-in to RubyForge to edit
| > pages.
| >
| >Curt
|
| I think having to be logged in to edit a wiki is good. Can't wait for
| the full conversion.
|
| David Ross

That's fine for Rubyforge, but not for Garden. Something else must still be
done there.

T.
Why not just have a .Ruby Passport service? If Rubyforge could set
something up like that. If they dont have the bandwidth, I could host.

David Ross
 
H

Hal Fulton

trans. (T. Onoma) said:
I am truly sorry if this inconveniences you, but its the sacrifice we all need
to make if we wish to continue to have such a great resource.

Have you been put in charge of RubyGarden? I had not heard of that.

Hal
 
D

David Ross

Good god, its getting stupid with the spam already. I was just clicking
though and notice pages of spam. What is the solution RubyGarden is
giong to do to fix the problem? Its starting to get irritating now. I'm
having to despam RubyGarden pages when I see them.

David Ross
 
A

Austin Ziegler

Austin is adding authentication to Ruwiki and Tom is integrating that into RubyForge's
login, so you'll have to be logged-in to RubyForge to edit pages.

...and I hope to finally begin rolling that out on the Ruwiki site
itself later this week. I just added a mandatory redirect through
google.com (http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=<URL>) -- this will
ultimately have a configurable list so that redirects will only be
done for unknown URIs.

I've just been VERY busy lately with work and home life.

-austin
 
A

Austin Ziegler

I've got a PMC (poor man's captcha) that guards the comment submission
for my blog (http://www.jamisbuck.org/jamis, and click a 'comment' link
to see it). It's just plain text that must be entered backwards in a
text box. Easily circumvented, 'tis true, but I haven't had a single
spam comment on my blog since I implemented it.

Jamis,

What did you use to do that captcha? That captcha I might actually
support using; I just don't want to do an image-based captcha because
of accessibility issues.

-austin
 
J

Joey Gibson

Austin said:
What did you use to do that captcha? That captcha I might actually

support using; I just don't want to do an image-based captcha because
of accessibility issues.

Someone in the Blosxom community added CAPTCHA support to Blosxom using
figlet, which is a unix program to draw letters in ascii art. It worked
pretty well. You might could adapt the Perl code that does it to your
needs. The URL is http://varg.dyndns.org/psi/pub/code/misc/wbcaptcha.html



--
She drove a Plymouth Satellite
Faster than the Speed of Light...

http://www.joeygibson.com/blog
http://www.joeygibson.com/blog/life/Wisdom.html
Atlanta Ruby User Group http://www.AtlRUG.org
 
J

Jamis Buck

Austin said:
Jamis,

What did you use to do that captcha? That captcha I might actually
support using; I just don't want to do an image-based captcha because
of accessibility issues.

-austin

Just Ruby. In my blog-comments.rb file, I've got a method 'captcha' that
returns the captcha block as HTML, expecting to be wrapped in a form:

def captcha
source = "23456789abdefghijkmnpqr" +
"stuvwxyzABDEFGHJKLMNPQR" +
"STUVWXYZ!?%\#@&*:\"<>".split(//)
source = source.sort_by { rand }
chars = (1..10).collect { source.shift }

string = chars.join
md5hash = MD5.hexdigest( string )

captcha_string = chars.reverse.collect { |i|
"<span>#{i}</span> " }.join

<<-EOF
<p>
Type the following characters <strong>in reverse
order</strong> into the text box. Spaces are optional.
</p>
<div class="captcha">
#{captcha_string}
</div>
<input type="hidden" name="checksum" value="#{md5hash}" />
What characters did you see:
<input type="text" name="captcha" value="" />
EOF
end

Then, when the form is submitted, I call 'validate_captcha':

def validate_captcha
checksum = @session['checksum']
captcha = @session['captcha']
sum = MD5.hexdigest( captcha.gsub(/\s/,"") )

sum == checksum
end

If this returns true, they entered the captcha string correctly. Like I
said, it's pretty simple, and easily circumvented, but it's worked well
for me so far.

(The above code is in the public domain, so do with it as you will.)
 
J

Jamis Buck

Joey said:
Someone in the Blosxom community added CAPTCHA support to Blosxom using
figlet, which is a unix program to draw letters in ascii art. It worked
pretty well. You might could adapt the Perl code that does it to your
needs. The URL is http://varg.dyndns.org/psi/pub/code/misc/wbcaptcha.html

ASCII art will still suffer from accessibility issues, since a screen
reader will not be able to read the ASCII art in any intelligible way to
the user. :( However, it is an ingenious approach...I'm tempted to look
into that, JFTHOI.

- Jamis
 

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