Slightly OT: Why all the spam?

[Joel Hedlund]

Does anyone know why we get so much spam to this group? It's starting to
get embarrasing to read at work and that's just not how it should be.

Cheers!
/Joel

 

[bryan rasmussen]

Well two things I would suppose:

1. relative popularity and volume of the group leads spammers to put
more resources towards spamming the group.

2. I seem to remember that python-list is also a usenet group?
non-moderated, meaning it is tough to ban people?

Actually, it would be nice to know if anybody has any good filters
worked up that will work in Gmail for reading python-list.


Cheers,
Bryan Rasmussen

 

[Michael L Torrie]

Well two things I would suppose:

1. relative popularity and volume of the group leads spammers to put
more resources towards spamming the group.

2. I seem to remember that python-list is also a usenet group?
non-moderated, meaning it is tough to ban people?

Actually, it would be nice to know if anybody has any good filters
worked up that will work in Gmail for reading python-list.

It appears that people using nntp to read this list aren't seeing the
spam because the moderators expire the messages as they find them.
However, by then the messages have already hit the mailman gateway.
Thus you may want to consider reading c.l.p via nntp when at work.

Lately all the spams contain a url to a certain site, so you can
probably procmail filter based on that. The spam does not appear to be
random-bot generated, but targeted spam by a single person or entity.
Which makes it easier to filter out.

 

[Dennis Lee Bieber]

It appears that people using nntp to read this list aren't seeing the
spam because the moderators expire the messages as they find them.
However, by then the messages have already hit the mailman gateway.
Thus you may want to consider reading c.l.p via nntp when at work.

I'm still getting some spam via earthlink's NNTP -- seems about one
or two a day slipping past my filters (mainly because Agent's filters
for NNTP only work on subject and from headers -- my only complaint
about Agent is that it won't do usenet filtering on other headers or
body).

And for me -- at work the only way to read (I can't even reply) is
GoogleGroups.
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
(e-mail address removed) (e-mail address removed)
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: (e-mail address removed))
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/

 

[Terry Reedy]

| On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 09:08 +0200, bryan rasmussen wrote:
| > Well two things I would suppose:
| >
| > 1. relative popularity and volume of the group leads spammers to put
| > more resources towards spamming the group.
| >
| > 2. I seem to remember that python-list is also a usenet group?
| > non-moderated, meaning it is tough to ban people?
| >
| > Actually, it would be nice to know if anybody has any good filters
| > worked up that will work in Gmail for reading python-list.
|
| It appears that people using nntp to read this list aren't seeing the
| spam because the moderators expire the messages as they find them.
| However, by then the messages have already hit the mailman gateway.
| Thus you may want to consider reading c.l.p via nntp when at work.
|
| Lately all the spams contain a url to a certain site, so you can
| probably procmail filter based on that. The spam does not appear to be
| random-bot generated, but targeted spam by a single person or entity.
| Which makes it easier to filter out.

I am getting lots of it reading via gmane. It is not clear to me from the
headers for some whether the spam is being injected via gmane or is being
passed thru the mailing lists, which is supposed to block such (I thought).
Anyone clear for this one?

Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: (e-mail address removed)
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.python.general
Subject: ^? Ron Jeremeys Dick Gets Longer!
Date: 21 May 2007 22:17:04 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 6
Approved: (e-mail address removed)
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1179811282 28713 80.91.229.12 (22 May 2007 05:21:22
GMT)
X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 05:21:22 +0000 (UTC)
To: (e-mail address removed)
Original-X-From:
[email protected] Tue May 22
07:21:20 2007
Return-path:
<[email protected]>
Envelope-to: (e-mail address removed)
Original-Received: from smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl ([194.109.24.28])
by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
id 1HqMoC-00046j-8v
for (e-mail address removed); Tue, 22 May 2007 07:21:20 +0200
Original-Received: from bag.python.org (bag.python.org [194.109.207.14])
by smtp-vbr8.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l4M5LK8b075024
for <[email protected]>; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:21:20 +0200
(CEST)
(envelope-from
[email protected])
Original-Received: from bag.python.org (bag [127.0.0.1])
by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F051E4003
for <[email protected]>; Tue, 22 May 2007 07:21:19 +0200
(CEST)
Original-Path:
news.xs4all.nl!newsspool.news.xs4all.nl!transit.news.xs4all.nl!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!xs4all!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Original-Newsgroups: comp.lang.python, misc.writing,
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains, alt.guitar.amps,
comp.unix.solaris
Original-Lines: 3
Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.183.79.3
Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1179811048 22970 127.0.0.1 (22 May
2007 05:17:28
GMT)
Original-X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 05:17:28 +0000 (UTC)
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US;
rv:1.8.0.10) Gecko/20061220 Mandriva/1.5.0.10-2mdv2007.0
(2007.0) Firefox/1.5.0.10,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)
Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
Injection-Info: b40g2000prd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=66.183.79.3;
posting-account=0f6UMg0AAAC5bxvnyv-Tuh1EvQXxN9Ru
Original-Xref: news.xs4all.nl comp.lang.python:496115 misc.writing:997260
alt.consumers.uk-discounts.and.bargains:213090
alt.guitar.amps:815089 comp.unix.solaris:552028
X-BeenThere: (e-mail address removed)
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language
<python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
<mailto[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list>
List-Post: <mailto[email protected]>
List-Help: <mailto[email protected]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>,
<mailto[email protected]?subject=subscribe>
Original-Sender:
[email protected]
Errors-To: [email protected]
X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner
Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.comp.python.general:523407
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.general/523407>

I have sent notices to (e-mail address removed) and get no response and spam
continues from same account. I am wondering if google thinks it is too big
to be punished for being a spam source.

tjr

 

[Daniel Nogradi]

Actually, it would be nice to know if anybody has any good filters

worked up that will work in Gmail for reading python-list.

I use this filter in gmail applied to the body of the message, if
there is a match, it skips inbox and gets deleted:

britney OR boobs OR tits OR sex OR pamela OR pics OR 911 OR boob OR
britneys OR pamelas OR fbi OR cia OR bush OR cheney OR wolfowitz OR
wtc OR pussy OR boobies OR tities OR chicks

Works pretty well, although not perfect.

 

[Joel Hedlund]

Thus you may want to consider reading c.l.p via nntp when at work.

I'm doing that using Thunderbird 1.5.0, and I still get the spam.
Googling for a bit shows me that people have been having issues with
Thunderbird not removing expired articles all the way since 2003.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can make thunderbird remove
expired articles? Or should I perhaps use another news reader?

/Joel

 

[Grant Edwards]

I'm doing that using Thunderbird 1.5.0, and I still get the
spam. Googling for a bit shows me that people have been
having issues with Thunderbird not removing expired articles
all the way since 2003.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I can make thunderbird remove
expired articles?

I don't understand. Expired articles are removed on the server
by the server.

Or should I perhaps use another news reader?

I don't see how it will make any difference, but maybe
Thunderbird is doing something weird (caching headers?).

 

[Joel Hedlund]

Expired articles are removed on the server by the server.

> ...
> maybe Thunderbird is doing something weird (caching headers?).

I can see the spam headers and also read the actual articles, and there
are lots of them for the last 5 days. Nothing much before that, though.

/Joel

 

[Grant Edwards]

I can see the spam headers and also read the actual articles,

Then they aren't expired. If they were expired, you wouldn't
see them.

 

[Joel Hedlund]

Then they aren't expired. If they were expired, you wouldn't

see them.

Alright, so the solution is not to browse c.l.p articles newer than a
week while the boss is behind your back then.

Thanks for educating a usenet white belt though!

/Joel

 

[Joel Hedlund]

Then they aren't expired. If they were expired, you wouldn't

see them.

Alright, so the solution is not to browse c.l.p articles newer than a
week while the boss is behind your back then.

Thanks for educating a usenet white belt though!

/Joel

 

[Aahz]

It appears that people using nntp to read this list aren't seeing the
spam because the moderators expire the messages as they find them.

Allow this creaky and cranky old-timer to correct what you're trying to
write:

First of all, if you're accessing python-list as comp.lang.python, you're
accessing a newsgroup, *not* a mailing list. Secondly, c.l.py is an
unmoderated group; there is no moderator and no control over who posts.
However, netnews (Usenet) has a mechanism for cancelling articles, and
cancelbots send out cancel messages for spam articles.

(Expiring is a completely different mechanism from cancelling; you may
be thinking of superceding -- yes, that's how the header is spelled,
deal with it -- which uses the cancel mechanism to replace one article
with a supposedly-better version.)

These days, because of the cancelbot wars, many news servers do not honor
cancels, so the extent to which you see spam in c.l.py depends partly on
whether your server does honor cancels. Also, because of the nature of
netnews distribution, you may still see spam even if your server does
honor cancels because the cancel message takes too long to arrive.

 

[Robert Kern]

These days, because of the cancelbot wars, ...

Heh. Sounds like a particularly dire episode of Doctor Who.

--
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
an underlying truth."
-- Umberto Eco

 

[Terry Reedy]

| First of all, if you're accessing python-list as comp.lang.python, you're
| accessing a newsgroup, *not* a mailing list. Secondly, c.l.py is an
| unmoderated group; there is no moderator and no control over who posts.
| However, netnews (Usenet) has a mechanism for cancelling articles, and
| cancelbots send out cancel messages for spam articles.

This does not address the issue of spam passing thru python-list, which I
believe is supposed to be somewhat moderated (by people who have rejected
my help to catch spam) to gmane, where I read it. I presume this is the
path for stuff injected via google. Or perhaps stuff flows the other way.
I am not sure. Or perhaps it it injected independently in both or all
three places.

tjr

 

[Gabriel Genellina]

| First of all, if you're accessing python-list as comp.lang.python,
you're
| accessing a newsgroup, *not* a mailing list. Secondly, c.l.py is an
| unmoderated group; there is no moderator and no control over who posts.
| However, netnews (Usenet) has a mechanism for cancelling articles, and
| cancelbots send out cancel messages for spam articles.

This does not address the issue of spam passing thru python-list, which I
believe is supposed to be somewhat moderated (by people who have rejected
my help to catch spam) to gmane, where I read it. I presume this is the
path for stuff injected via google. Or perhaps stuff flows the other
way. I am not sure. Or perhaps it it injected independently in both or
all
three places.

Or four or N places; anybody can post using any other nntp server that
carries this group (if the server allows him, of course). Mailing lists
are easier to control because there is a single entry point; news aren't
that way.

 

[Steve Holden]

Or four or N places; anybody can post using any other nntp server that
carries this group (if the server allows him, of course). Mailing lists
are easier to control because there is a single entry point; news aren't
that way.

I *did* try to explain all this a week or two ago. Did I not make myself
clear?

regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
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-------------- Thank You for Reading ----------------

 

[Terry Reedy]

| I *did* try to explain all this a week or two ago. Did I not make myself
clear?

I could ask the same. Quoting from that post:

| All I am saying is that it's difficult to catch *everything* when so
| much of the content comes in via Usenet. These posts never touch any
| python.org infrastructure before being incorporated into the newsgroup
| content on servers all over the world.

I am completely aware of that. But *I* am talking about posts which I
believe *do* touch python.org on the way to gmane. And please note that I
asked for (but have not gotten a response to) verification of that belief
before complaining .

| Looking at the headers in one of the messages you were writing about it
| appears they are being posted from Google groups, so maybe you could
| complain to them. Good luck with that ;-).

I think most everything I have looked at recently came from Google groups
or Google mail. Perhaps they considered themselved immune from the usenet
death penalty of being cutoff from the rest of usenet for not controlling
their own spammers. Or, I suppose, perhaps their current resources are
overwhelmed. In either case, being from Google should be a point toward
spamishness.

| The Python list managers know what they are doing,

Things were fine on the gmane side until a few months ago. Then what they
knew started to slip, it seems.

| and they *do* keep a huge amount of spam off the list.

I have previously thanked them publicly.

| The occasional piece gets through

For the past several months, it has been several a day, not 'the occasional
piece ... from time to time'. Much was repeated (>1/day) leftist political
postings from the same sources WITH SUBJECT LINES IN CAPS, MAKING THEM VERY
NOTICEABLE to even the most cursory scan, whether by person or program.
*If* it was indeed coming thru py.org, they I would have expected it to
have been stopped (or stopped sooner).

This discussion group, with its three versions, is one of the public faces
of Python. A dirty, junky group is bad public relations for Python. When
the current spam wave started, nobody said much for a couple of months at
least. I, and perhaps others, expected the 'we know what we are doing'
system to respond. These 'why spam' threads only started when it did not
seem to. They constitute fair and valid public feedback.

I notice today that there is no spam in 80 messages. A good sign I hope.

Terry Jan Reedy

 

[Hendrik van Rooyen]

I *did* try to explain all this a week or two ago. Did I not make myself
clear?

Aah ! This makes a couple of assumptions, none of which are necessarily
based on fact, namely:

1) That the people involved read what you wrote.

2) That they understood it.

3) That they remembered it.

and possibly:

4) That they agreed with it

and humiliatingly:

5) That you are not in their killfiles.

: - )

- Hendrik